[PCWorld] Why Moore's Law, not mobility, is killing the PC -old article

Maximilian

Lifer
Feb 8, 2004
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Yeah the part about core2 still being good enough definitely holds true IMO. My craptop has a 1.2ghz core2 chip and its good enough for everything I throw at it.
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
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One thing I've found is that because so much PC use has moved into the browser, people will blame slowness on their internet connection- not their PC. My parents always used to complain about how slow their internet connection was, without realising that it was their crummy old Pentium 4 desktop which was holding them back. They upgraded to an i5 last year, and now Youtube is miraculously faster. ;)
 

Maximilian

Lifer
Feb 8, 2004
12,604
15
81
One thing I've found is that because so much PC use has moved into the browser, people will blame slowness on their internet connection- not their PC. My parents always used to complain about how slow their internet connection was, without realising that it was their crummy old Pentium 4 desktop which was holding them back. They upgraded to an i5 last year, and now Youtube is miraculously faster. ;)

See mine are the exact opposite, always moaning about their i3 530 and 4GB of memory when its their crummy middle of nowhere internet :\ Ive tried explaining it but it was pretty futile.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
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I've noticed severe slowdowns in my browser lately too, but I'm not really sure of the cause.

(removed problem, moved to Computer Help: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2378894 )

Edit: Anyways, back on topic, my two Core2Quad Q9300 rigs are still cranking away, doing distributed-computing, and they can still web-browse with the best of them, even while crunching on the video card (scrolling is slightly more choppy, but not really too bogged down). (I could disable GPU computing while I'm using the PC, but I don't bother.)
 
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Dman8777

Senior member
Mar 28, 2011
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Since my family got high speed internet access (2002/2003 IIRC) I can't remember a time when internet surfing ever presented a problem. As the author in the article says, "good enough" has been around forever. There are plenty of reasons to upgrade computers/laptops that are 3-4 years old. Touch screens, lower power consumption, solid state disks, and faster graphics (both integrated and discreet) for example.

IMO, the real reason that PC sales have flatlined is that many families no longer have 2 or 3 computers. Instead, they've been replacing old computers with tablets. 1 family computer for windows stuff is enough and as long as everyone can surf/facebook when they want to on tablets/smartphones, everyone is happy.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
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Since my family got high speed internet access (2002/2003 IIRC) I can't remember a time when internet surfing ever presented a problem. As the author in the article says, "good enough" has been around forever. There are plenty of reasons to upgrade computers/laptops that are 3-4 years old. Touch screens, lower power consumption, solid state disks, and faster graphics (both integrated and discreet) for example.

IMO, the real reason that PC sales have flatlined is that many families no longer have 2 or 3 computers. Instead, they've been replacing old computers with tablets. 1 family computer for windows stuff is enough and as long as everyone can surf/facebook when they want to on tablets/smartphones, everyone is happy.

I hope all of my older relatives get ipads. I live pretty far from my 'rents and extended family and I still get frequent calls because they have a tendency to click anything and everything, which of course can cause malicious programs or adware to be installed. And eventually that causes problems and I get asked how to fix them. I can't really visit to fix the problems, and AV programs don't always catch everything.

Solution? IPAD for everyone! ;)
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
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I hope all of my older relatives get ipads. I live pretty far from my 'rents and extended family and I still get frequent calls because they have a tendency to click anything and everything, which of course can cause malicious programs or adware to be installed. And eventually that causes problems and I get asked how to fix them. I can't really visit to fix the problems, and AV programs don't always catch everything.

Solution? IPAD for everyone! ;)

Amen to that! Apple and Dell have solved so much of my beleaguered troubleshooting-over-email problems in the past two years that to be honest I love the fact I have been made obsolete by the latest and greatest.

Outside of myself, no one in my extended friends and family circle even runs a desktop anymore. If they touch an x86 based device it is a laptop.

But they rarely bother to touch those these days. They've all gone iPads and Kindles. Which I must admit is absolutely fabulous. My load of "help me, what's wrong" backlog is down to zero.

I don't know if it is because the devices involved don't involve x86 hardware, or if it is because they don't involve Microsoft software, but the lack of Wintel in the equation is starkly evident.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
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Indeed! And like a year or two ago I was one of those desktop purists who was of the attitude "tablets are not powerful enough give me a desktop etc etc ". :D Lemme tell ya, having used an ipad for a long time now...they're amazing. Not only for family members for hassle free use, but even using one myself I have to admit there are a lot of things I can do faster on an ipad than on a desktop when it comes to some tasks. I love 'em.

Now don't get me wrong. I love my desktop. But man. iPad is a pretty amazing device. I started using one begrudgingly and now...I don't think I could get by without it. Android tablets too, although i'm way more selective there; there are truly some junk android tablets on the market. Some good premium ones though.

But yeah, seeing as an ipad does everything my extended family needs in terms of basic use without the windows related nonsense is great. (and I like windows, but frequent tech related questions due to adware/malicious software/etcetcetc from family is not enjoyable for them or me)
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,466
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Still perfectly happy with all my PC's here, I guess I tend not to walk around with em.
 

ehume

Golden Member
Nov 6, 2009
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We have 3 desktops because I love to build them. My kid has a laptop because she games. My other kid splits her time between her iPod touch and the desktop I built her.

If it weren't for the fact that my wife and I are old (getting into microcomputers in the 1980's qualifies us as that), we might not have any x86 machines.
 
Aug 11, 2008
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Tablets and laptop/desktops both have their place. Personally my feelings are very negative toward android, even though I have used an android tablet for almost 2 years. I think I just did not get a very good one which exacerbates the limitations of android. It is dog slow, has abysmal internet connectivity, is buggy as hell, and has lousy battery life. I do like the form factor, and like that it cannot get windows malware. OTOH, I have used Windows for 20 years and never had a serious malware problem either, and would not make do without at least one powerful device running windows.

I would like to use an i-pad for some time to see how it is, but they are just too expensive, especially considering that now you can get a windows tablet for less than an i-pad. Even without gaming though, just for online banking and such, there is still no real substitute for a desktop with a full keyboard and big monitor.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,587
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Amen to that! Apple and Dell have solved so much of my beleaguered troubleshooting-over-email problems in the past two years that to be honest I love the fact I have been made obsolete by the latest and greatest.

Outside of myself, no one in my extended friends and family circle even runs a desktop anymore. If they touch an x86 based device it is a laptop.

But they rarely bother to touch those these days. They've all gone iPads and Kindles. Which I must admit is absolutely fabulous. My load of "help me, what's wrong" backlog is down to zero.

I don't know if it is because the devices involved don't involve x86 hardware, or if it is because they don't involve Microsoft software, but the lack of Wintel in the equation is starkly evident.

That's quite the endorsement. Now I'm wondering if I should get my mom a tablet, of some kind. She doesn't really do anything serious with a computer, no content creation, just some light browsing and watching videos online.

If I could get a Dell Venue Pro 8 somewhere cheap, I just might, I guess.

I built her a (new) desktop a year or two ago, she used to use it somewhat regularly. It has 16GB of RAM and an SSD in it.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
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Tablets and laptop/desktops both have their place. Personally my feelings are very negative toward android, even though I have used an android tablet for almost 2 years. I think I just did not get a very good one which exacerbates the limitations of android. It is dog slow, has abysmal internet connectivity, is buggy as hell, and has lousy battery life. I do like the form factor, and like that it cannot get windows malware. OTOH, I have used Windows for 20 years and never had a serious malware problem either, and would not make do without at least one powerful device running windows.

I would like to use an i-pad for some time to see how it is, but they are just too expensive, especially considering that now you can get a windows tablet for less than an i-pad. Even without gaming though, just for online banking and such, there is still no real substitute for a desktop with a full keyboard and big monitor.

Online banking. Hmm. with my credit unions iOS app and ipad air I can do all of that stuff WAY faster on my ipad and more conveniently on the go than I can on the desktop. I can use the app to take pics of checks for deposit in about 5 seconds, oh hey built in camera. 5 seconds. Or the desktop version is cludging my way through the web, hooking my iphone or digital camera via USB, waiting a few seconds for it to sync, this takes longer than it does in iOS. For my online banking there's just no comparison, it is easier to navigate through the online banking app via touch and most of the important features are quicker on the ipad. Not to mention convenient to use anywhere.

Of course my CU has an iOS app. Your situation may be different. Desktop may be faster for you. For me it isn't, not even close.

Now the ipad doesn't do everything better. But it is very very nice. Email? Better on the ipad air. Browsing? About the same. Just different in terms of navigation. Once you get used to both, they're the same in terms of efficiency.

Some guys refuse to budge from their desktop because they're old school. I'm not stating that as a shot at you or even that it applies to you, but by and large, this is the case. Sadly, I was of this same mindset some years ago. Having used the ipad on the go for more than a year, I can assuredly state that the desktop is not faster for nearly any task in terms of basic use such as email, browsing, etc etc etc. It is just different. Once you get used to the ipad, you can do almost anything as fast or in a lot of cases - faster. Anything I can do in windows such as multitasking, copy pasting, word processing, I can do that on the ipad air. If I need a keyboard / trackpad, bluetooth, bam done. For basic stuff. Now obviously I can't use photoshop on my ipad. Not yet anyway. So the desktop is there when I get home late at night. When I need it. And the desktop obviously has merits and does some things better - but i'd say the stuff a desktop does "better" are applications which just aren't possible on tablets yet. Such as photoshop as mentioned. Stuff along those lines. I still like my desktop of course, i'm a desktop guy at heart. But some people I feel like are just close minded about tablets. I almost fell in the same trap.

Now i'm not trying to turn this into a desktop vs tablet war. I love them both. I do feel that some people are just stuck in old ways for whatever reason, I was of that mindset for a long time until I really really gave the ipad a go. Nowadays I really love the thing. As far as android goes, I feel that android isn't quite as good as iOS for tablets. Very subjective though. There are truly a lot of cheap junk android tablets out there. I'd like to give the 2014 nexus a shot whenever that rolls around, as the 2013 nexus was quite a good android tablet.
 
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ninaholic37

Golden Member
Apr 13, 2012
1,883
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I would never buy an iPad because you can get a laptop cheaper, and I hate using touchscreens. A Chromebook maybe, but I'd rather just buy a used XP/7 laptop for $50-100 and put Linux on it. Why pay extra for an iPad keyboard/stand when I can already lay my laptop on me in bed and type comfortably? Did I mention that I HATE touchscreens?
 

guskline

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2006
5,338
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Just installed an Asus rt68u router to replace my Dir 655 and WOW all the Ipad, I phone users are happy at our place. In addition I can now run ipv4 and ipv6.

Still love my desktops.
 
Aug 11, 2008
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Each to his own I guess. Like I said, I have not tried an I pad, although I have family that loves theirs. I have direct deposit, so have no need of a camera app for banking. The tablet I have is only a 7 inch one, without a keyboard/mouse attachment, and there is absolutely no way to use the touch interface on that screen with anything close to the speed and accuracy of a keyboard/mouse/large monitor. In fact, the keyboard itself covers up about 75% of the screen when using it, making even something as trivial as E-mail very difficult, much less something like on-line bill paying that requires accuracy. I also have a second monitor attached to the desktop, so I can pay bills very easily by having the site of whoever I am paying open on one screen and the bill paying page of the bank open on the other. Finally, the wireless response of my desktop is *much* faster than the tablet, even when they are sitting side by side in the same room.
 

mrmt

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2012
3,974
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Outside of myself, no one in my extended friends and family circle even runs a desktop anymore. If they touch an x86 based device it is a laptop.

(...)

I don't know if it is because the devices involved don't involve x86 hardware, or if it is because they don't involve Microsoft software, but the lack of Wintel in the equation is starkly evident.

Microsoft is imploding their platform with Windows 8, the thing is hateful as a productive platform as well as a content consumption platform.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
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I would never buy an iPad because you can get a laptop cheaper, and I hate using touchscreens. A Chromebook maybe, but I'd rather just buy a used XP/7 laptop for $50-100 and put Linux on it. Why pay extra for an iPad keyboard/stand when I can already lay my laptop on me in bed and type comfortably? Did I mention that I HATE touchscreens?

Okay? Cool. I don't care about what YOU buy, I only care about what I buy.;) I'm only relaying my experience and the fact that some desktop only users are incredibly old school and/or close minded. Oldschool people are resistant to change. Land lines to mobile, same story. I could name more examples but won't; I had a close minded attitude about smaller tablets before - i've been there. Desktop replacement? "NO WAY!" That was me a few years back. Then I wound up using one for a while to see what the fuss was about. And tablets eventually (ipad specifically) won me over. That's all. If you want to use your desktop until the year 2035, go for it. Don't care. You do your thing and whatever makes you happy and is more efficient for you. I didn't say tablets are all inclusive where you can do everything on them. But for menial tasks, the statement that a desktop does everything faster is not correct. Desktop is better for some things, I find the ipad faster for other things. Not to mention, i'm on the go a lot and I obviously can't use my desktop while i'm on the go. But if I can do my online banking, finish up a spreadsheet, spruce up a word document (gotta love cloud printing), check my emails, catch some youtube sub channels during my lunch break on my ipad.....all from work or in my car or whatever...it's pretty awesome. Oh you can do remote desktop directly to your home desktop too. Pretty cool stuff.

This is aside from the point that ipad is a godsend for family members who don't really have any business using windows. The kinda people who don't read manuals and have a habit of clicking on everything and anything, and installing stuff they shouldn't install. And AV software doesn't catch all of their mistakes. Windows is more vulnerable to this sort of thing, which is annoying when you're trying to help an extended family member use their computer. Windows is great and all and I use it daily, but for people who subject themselves to javascript exploits and malware/adware/etcetcetc i'd rather just buy them an ipad and be done with it. You just don't really deal with such issues. And everyone whom I know that uses an ipad, much prefer it to a desktop. Of course the old school guys will stick to their desktops, and that's great. Whatever. I personally find merits in both. To state that one is outright better than the other? Nah. They're different and each have strengths and weaknesses. There are things I stick to my desktop for and then there's PC gaming of course. And for other things i'd much rather use my ipad. It all balances out for me.
 
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Aug 11, 2008
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Are you seriously saying you can type faster on a touch screen than on a keyboard? Unless that is the case a desktop(or laptop) will be faster than a tablet for uses that require much input. If you are using an external keyboard, that is different, but in that case the tablet pretty much becomes a desktop temporarily.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
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For a lot of tasks, I don't need to type. But when I do, the tap based input is very fast once you get used to it. Once you use it for about a week on a full size ipad air? Yeah it's fast. You really do get acclimated to it and it works very well. As fast as real typing? Not quite, but i'm trying to figure out where I said typing is faster. Then again, I can use my BT keyboard when I really need to type the traditional way. But I can't take my desktop in my car either. I can't take my desktop to work. I can't take my desktop to (insert location here). Also. If I want to type, I have a BT keybaord that is attachable to my ipad air base and I can type on that as fast as my desktop keyboard. So the answer is: yes I can type pretty fast with iOS' tap to type or when I need to type "normal" I can use my by BT keyboard which attaches to the base.

If you're looking for 10 million reasons to stick to your desktop and tell them to me, don't bother. I get it. You like your desktop. I never said tablets or desktops are all inclusive. I can do some things faster on my ipad and there are some things I still do on my desktop. The close minded view is stating "everything is better on desktop". That is, quite frankly, asinine. But you should use whatever works for you. Some will stick to desktop and there is really nothing at all wrong with that, it's your preference. My position is that there are merits to both and they're both great for different things. And I can do a lot of traditional tasks on the go with my ipad, including productivity stuff and remote desktop. Tablets (ipad at least, maybe some premium level android tablets as well) have gotten much better over the years.
 
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Aug 11, 2008
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Where did I say everything is better on the desktop. I agree tablets have their place and can do a lot of things a desktop can do. And they obviously have the advantage of convenience and mobility. But as for input speed and efficiency, a full size desktop is still faster than a laptop which is still faster than a tablet.

For your information as well, I have all the devices we are discussing: desktop, laptop, tablet, and smartphone, and have used them all for the past couple of years. So my opinion is hardly based on being old school or closed minded.
 

mrmt

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2012
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If you're looking for 10 million reasons to stick to your desktop and tell them to me, don't bother. I get it. You like your desktop. I never said tablets or desktops are all inclusive. I can do some things faster on my ipad and there are some things I still do on my desktop. The close minded view is stating "everything is better on desktop". That is, quite frankly, asinine. But you should use whatever works for you. Some will stick to desktop and there is really nothing at all wrong with that, it's your preference.

Just my two cents here in this discussion. My desktop is all but retired, except for gaming and becoming the big NAS of our home where we dump our downloads, for everything else I use a MBA as a personal device and in the office I use an Ultrabook (With an additional screen in my desk). My company has offered me an Ipad, but I don't like typing in a touch screen and if I have to carry a BT keyboard with me, I prefer to have the Ultrabook at hand.

A lot of stuff like banking or taxi or restaurant reservations I use mostly on the phone. I also bought 2 android tablets, one 10 inch (TF 201 or something like that, it's now with my wife) and another 7 inch (nexus 7 2nd generation=, I couldn't get along with the 10 inch format very well, because I don't like to carry a bag for it (if I have to carry a bag, then I prefer to have the MBA or the Ultrabook). The Nexus 7 still fits in my pocket, which makes it the device of choice in some cases, but I basically use it as a ebook reader. When I need a bigger screen at home, I use the 40 inch TV in the bedroom or the 55 inch TV in the living room.

In the end, I recognize the value of tablets but I'm yet to find them compelling enough for me to ditch the notebook format, but OTOH only thing for sure is that, except for gaming (which is getting an increasingly smaller share of my time, I only play 4-5 hours per month), the desktop is definitely out of my radar.
 
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Revolution 11

Senior member
Jun 2, 2011
952
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Same as mrmt, I only use my desktop for gaming and media storage. Sometimes I enjoy watching Netflix on the larger monitor but all casual web surfing I do on laptops.