[PcPer] Some mantle news from GDC

[frozentundra123456]

not really. the same chip that is more efficient stock will usually also be more efficient when overclocked. What amazes me is that someone that tries to defend a cpu that is *both* slower and less power efficient.

 

[loccothan]

It confounds me how people can talk about power usage and then O/C their CPU/GPU.

Talk, talk, it's all talk.

Lol bro

 

[blastingcap]

As has already been said by frozentundra, the more efficient chip usually uses less energy at stock OR overclocked compared to less-efficient chip.

I mean, can you imagine how much you'd have to trick out a Honda civic to get it to be LESS fuel-efficient than a Hummer? And most people don't even trick out either of them!

Similarly, I don't overclock, nor do most people (according to an Nvidia survey most people don't even touch settings out of the box... the people on this forum represent the fringe/enthusiast crowd and aren't representative of most people). Even if I did overclock, my GTX 750 Ti doesn't eat more than 10 watts more. The GTX 750 Ti is already the most efficient gaming-grade GPU available. I run a Platinum PSU that is extremely efficient at low and high wattages. I underclock and undervolt my RAM to 1600/1.4.

The only way I'm getting any more energy-efficient is by upgrading to Intel's 14nm.

If I switched to an AMD instead, to get equivalent gaming performance, I'd be paying a stiff energy usage penalty. Them's just the facts, no matter what AMD employees think.

 

[AtenRa]

The GTX 750 Ti is already the most efficient gaming-grade GPU available.

Only if you are talking about 10-20fps. I dont think that GTX-750Ti has the same efficiency at higher Image Quality and high fps count.

One man's efficiency is another man's non sufficient performance. 😉

I would gladly have any AMD FX-83xx with R9 290 than any Intel CPU with GXT-750Ti.

 

[Phynaz]

Only if you are talking about 10-20fps. I dont think that GTX-750Ti has the same efficiency at higher Image Quality and high fps count.

One man's efficiency is another man's non sufficient performance. 😉

I would gladly have any AMD FX-83xx with R9 290 than any Intel CPU with GXT-750Ti.

I'd rather have any Intel CPU with an R9 290. I'd get both better performance and greater efficiency than the all AMD solution.

Pair Intel with an Nvidia card and any AMD solution is left sitting in the parking lot with its hands in its pockets.

 

[3DVagabond]

not really. the same chip that is more efficient stock will usually also be more efficient when overclocked. What amazes me is that someone that tries to defend a cpu that is *both* slower and less power efficient.

I'm not trying to defend anything. Just making an observation. You left off costs less. Just another observation. 😉

 

[AtenRa]

Pair Intel with an Nvidia card and any AMD solution is left sitting in the parking lot with its hands in its pockets.

Not always, especially with Mantle.

 

[blastingcap]

Only if you are talking about 10-20fps. I dont think that GTX-750Ti has the same efficiency at higher Image Quality and high fps count.

One man's efficiency is another man's non sufficient performance. 😉

I would gladly have any AMD FX-83xx with R9 290 than any Intel CPU with GXT-750Ti.

1. As Phy said, there is no need to pair an AMD GPU with an AMD CPU.

2. After accounting for RAM differences, GTX 980 is almost as efficient as 750 Ti. But NV charges a HUGE price premium for that efficiency, way more than Intel charges, and unlike CPUs, GPU idle wattage differences are smaller so it would take far longer to recoup the premium via lower power bills. But I was not talking about GPUs, I was talking about CPUs.

3. Greek electric rates are around 20-21 cents/kWh and rising, which is nearly double the US average price:

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2014/10/31/greece-champion-of-electricity-hikes/

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2014/10/31/greece-champion-of-electricity-hikes/

Even a 10 watt difference at the wall, if left on all day, is worth about 5 cents in Greece. That's about $20 per year. That's with just a 10 watt difference. Computers are not always on, sure, but they aren't always idle, either, and when under load Intel CPUs are WAY more than 10 watts more efficient for equivalent gaming performance.

Since Intel CPUs don't cost THAT much more than AMD CPUs, it's possible to recoup the Intel price premium via lower power bills. In fact it might even be cheaper than AMD if your electricity price or usage rate are high enough.

But you already knew that. But you also sell AMD stuff and have a financial interest in talking up AMD and bashing Intel.

4. 750 Ti stock is already ~570 GTX performance. Overclocked it's nearly GTX 580. More than enough for older games, or newer ones not-maxed-out at 1080p.

 

[Phynaz]

Not always, especially with Mantle.

Pretty much 99% of the time.

And Mantle is dead. Did you somehow miss the announcement?

Edit:
Actually I'll say 99.999% of the time. What full AMD solution has greater efficiency than an Intel / Nvidia solution at a given performance point?

 

[Noctifer616]

And Mantle is dead. Did you somehow miss the announcement?

But DX12 and Vulkan aren't and they both will bring similar if not better results than Mantle.

 

[AtenRa]

1. As Phy said, there is no need to pair an AMD GPU with an AMD CPU.

2. After accounting for RAM differences, GTX 980 is almost as efficient as 750 Ti. But NV charges a HUGE price premium for that efficiency, way more than Intel charges, and unlike CPUs, GPU idle wattage differences are smaller so it would take far longer to recoup the premium via lower power bills. But I was not talking about GPUs, I was talking about CPUs.

3. Greek electric rates are around 20-21 cents/kWh and rising, which is nearly double the US average price:

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2014/10/31/greece-champion-of-electricity-hikes/

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2014/10/31/greece-champion-of-electricity-hikes/

Even a 10 watt difference at the wall, if left on all day, is worth about 5 cents in Greece. That's about $20 per year. That's with just a 10 watt difference. Computers are not always on, sure, but they aren't always idle, either, and when under load Intel CPUs are WAY more than 10 watts more efficient for equivalent gaming performance.

Since Intel CPUs don't cost THAT much more than AMD CPUs, it's possible to recoup the Intel price premium via lower power bills. In fact it might even be cheaper than AMD if your electricity price or usage rate are high enough.

Since im the one that have both AMD and Intel systems you will have to allow me to know better how much energy each use. The higher energy the AMD FX use in gaming is only for a few hours per week. Not enough to make a substantial difference unless you game 4-5 hours per day. Since those that do gaming for 4-5 hours per day are the very small minority, the energy efficiency of the Intel CPUs for Home usage is non existence for normal usage scenarios.

But you already knew that. But you also sell AMD stuff and have a financial interest in talking up AMD and bashing Intel.

You people have no idea,
Im also selling Intel CPUs, SSDs etc etc and let me tell you something that you didnt know. I have more financial interest with Intel than AMD because Intel offers rebates when AMD doesnt. It is why everyone will try to sell an Intel product first and doesnt bother about AMD no matter how much better that AMD product may be.
So next time before you start to through out that AMD selling BS, learn how the market works and then come here and talk to me about financial interests.
Also, i havent said anything bad about Intel CPUs in this particular thread, but when i see something i dont like i will bash Intel, AMD and NVIDIA the same way no matter what. 😉
I will also applaud them when they release a good product at a right price etc etc. 😉

4. 750 Ti stock is already ~570 GTX performance. Overclocked it's nearly GTX 580. More than enough for older games, or newer ones not-maxed-out at 1080p.

Yea try 120fps or raise the Image Quality with that puny GPU. It may be ok for 3-4 year old Games but not for 2014 onwards.

 

[Silverforce11]

I haven't used an AMD CPU for my own rig in many years. It's very simple.

You cannot be both SLOWER and use MORE power than the competition, when the price difference is minor, ~$50 premium for an Intel i5 quad-core compared to fx 8-core. That amount is quite small in the total build cost. The performance difference are staggering due to the IPC gains Intel have made as well as overall lack of software that can fully utilize 8 cores.

This is repeated with Maxwell. R290/X are both slower and use a lot more power. Luckily they are quite cheap in comparison so at least there's some attractive sales point.

 

[AtenRa]

Pretty much 99% of the time.



Edit:
Actually I'll say 99.999% of the time. What full AMD solution has greater efficiency than an Intel / Nvidia solution at a given performance point?

AMD FX-8320E + R9 290 with a Mantle Title has higher perf/watt than Intel + Kepler at the same price for example. 😉
Also, in order to have higher efficiency with the Intel + NVIDIA you also have to spend substantial more to arrive at the same performance in Mantle games.

And Mantle is dead. Did you somehow miss the announcement?

Mantle 1.0 run its coarse, there are games using Mantle as we speak. Also DX-12 will make old CPUs perform way better the coming years. This must be a nightmare for Intel, no reason to upgrade your CPU for 5-6 years now. Even a Quad Core SandyBridge will be more than enough for DX-12 games.

 

[soccerballtux]

Almost, AMD should have charged licensing fees, or found some other way to immediately monetize Mantle. As it stands they gave it away with the hope of it somehow selling more AMD hardware long term. Sketchy way to run a business.

they have a bad habit of doing things like this. FreeSync? When it's free, everybody throws in a half-hearted effort that's not implemented very well, then it's left up to the reviewers to figure out which options are well managed. Better to charge a small license fee that can pay the salary of a pay a full time employee to take shipments before giving the AMD Stamp of Quality..

 

[Phynaz]

AMD FX-8320E + R9 290 with a Mantle Title has higher perf/watt than Intel + Kepler at the same price for example. 😉
Also, in order to have higher efficiency with the Intel + NVIDIA you also have to spend substantial more to arrive at the same performance in Mantle games.

Nice you moved the goal posts again.

Mantle 1.0 run its coarse, there are games using Mantle as we speak. Also DX-12 will make old CPUs perform way better the coming years. This must be a nightmare for Intel, no reason to upgrade your CPU for 5-6 years now. Even a Quad Core SandyBridge will be more than enough for DX-12 games.

Please explain why this isn't bad for AMD? AMD users would have to upgrade their CPU's more often than Intel users?

Sounds like you are admitting AMD CPUs aren't very good if they have to be replaced more often than Intel.

Oh, and Mantle is dead.

 

[stahlhart]

Am I going to have to move this thread to the CPUs forum, or am I going to have to close it? Get back on topic.
-- stahlhart

 

[loccothan]

Am I going to have to move this thread to the CPUs forum, or am I going to have to close it? Get back on topic.
-- stahlhart

You know, im observing the posts on different sites for quite long time now, and what i've seen is that the users (fan-boys-trolls) of Intel/nV always attacking the AMD users. Im happy with my RIG and its really fast for Games etc. And the Fan-trolls of Intel/nV always are the ELITE ;-) in their eyes, cuz they PAY $ more for their RIGs, min +100$ to lol +700$ for Intel CPU's and +200$ +1200$ for nV GPU's.
So they don't understand what elite really means :-( Not $ make You Elite but The "Spine" the Tenets, morality and LOVE...
So please close this thread.

 

[Gikaseixas]

AMD FX-8320E + R9 290 with a Mantle Title has higher perf/watt than Intel + Kepler at the same price for example.

Against facts you can't argue
This is what AMD wanted all along by offering Mantle tech to other companies. They know they'll struggle vs Intel in a head to head war.

 

[Gikaseixas]

You know, im observing the posts on different sites for quite long time now, and what i've seen is that the users (fan-boys-trolls) of Intel/nV always attacking the AMD users. Im happy with my RIG and its really fast for Games etc. And the Fan-trolls of Intel/nV always are the ELITE

Noticed that too in every AMD related thread. The same people get in there and start arguments. The saddest part is that nothing or little gets done about it.


Why don't you express your concerns here instead.

-Rvenger

 

[EvilNodZ]

It's the same people every week on this forum coming into AMD threads and dissing stuff they have no intention of even purchasing.