[PCPer] No more 3way or 4way SLI profiles for games

[sm625]

What terrible terrible support. They are actually charging an extra hundy per card as an early adopter tax and they can't even offer full SLI support. They wring their customers out for more and more and give them less and less.

That is what you have to do to get your stock to go up 50% per year. Yes, NVDA has literally gone up by 50% per year the last 3 years.

 

[Gorbugal]

They never claimed that. With more than 2 cards you were on your own from the start. And the reason you had to get the code is for that reason.

http://www.pcper.com/news/Graphics-Cards/NVIDIA-Limits-GTX-1080-SLI-Two-Cards
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3071...fficially-supports-only-2-way-sli-setups.html

Again its not new, the drama however is

They definitely did. It's even mentioned in the second article you linked. And the Whitepaper.

"You can connect three or four GTX 1080s together using the LED-lit SLI bridges that appeared over the last year or two. Traditional single-slot SLI bridges won’t work. Then you’ll need to download an Enthusiast Key generated for your specific, individual GPUs from a new Nvidia Enthusiast Key website, which isn’t live yet but will be in time for the GTX 1080’s May 27 launch. Running the Enthusiast Key on your machine will unlock 3- and 4-way SLI functionality, as well as crank the LED SLI bridge’s clocks up to the same 650MHz as the new SLI HB bridges."

You saying "And the reason you had to get the code is for that reason." doesn't contradict anything the person you quoted said and doesn't really make any sense. The entire point was they said this and then changed their minds which the definitely didn't announce they were going to do a couple of months ago. So this is new and I don't care at all about drama.

 

[tonyfreak215]

Yup. DX12 multi-GPU is on devs and you know PC ports are quick & dirty usually.

They won't bother unless AMD or NV sponsors the PC port and add multi-GPU.

It's almost this way already for DX11 anyway. AMD/NV has to work with devs to get CF/SLI compatibility.

Who's to say the next consoles won't have multi-gpus? If that's the case, most devs will get used to programming for multi-gpus.

With Vulcan and DX12, the lines between consoles and pcs are blurring.

 

[crisium]

I doubt it, but I hope so. Multi-GPU Polaris consoles should give devs 0 excuses for not having crossfire support day 1, outside of Gameworks interference.

 

[antihelten]

I doubt it, but I hope so. Multi-GPU Polaris consoles should give devs 0 excuses for not having crossfire support day 1, outside of Gameworks interference.

If consoles actually had 2 GPUs then they would likely use something similar to DX12s linked EMA (explicit multi-adaptor), and not crossfire.

Of course if the console actually used Vulkan or DX12 (like Xbox One), then the end result should be largely the same, PC support wise, since those APIs are also available on PC.

 

[selni]

Who's to say the next consoles won't have multi-gpus? If that's the case, most devs will get used to programming for multi-gpus.

With Vulcan and DX12, the lines between consoles and pcs are blurring.

Consoles with multiple GPUs seems unlikely when it's a custom chip you can just add more compute units to anyway. Not much reason to go multi gpu when you can just make your single GPU bigger.

 

[NTMBK]

Because of vr, yields on two smaller chips will be better, and with two of the right chips power usage could be quite low.

I sincerely doubt that VR will be important enough to gimp the design of their console that way. And if yields are bad enough for that to be a problem, then it would be way to expensive for a console.

It would massively crank up the difficulty and cost of development, for very little gain.

 

[tonyfreak215]

Consoles with multiple GPUs seems unlikely when it's a custom chip you can just add more compute units to anyway. Not much reason to go multi gpu when you can just make your single GPU bigger.

It's a lot easier and cheaper to build many smaller GPUs than one giant one.

Plus who isn't to say AMD could "pressure" multi-gpus into consoles. It certainly would give them an advantage.

 

[thilanliyan]

Nothing to my knowledge on the ultra high end has beaten nvidia since like the 9800pro days, thats the last card I remember running from amd lol.

I'm pretty sure X1900XT was top, and so were 5870 and 7970 briefly IIRC.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Consoles with multiple GPUs seems unlikely when it's a custom chip you can just add more compute units to anyway. Not much reason to go multi gpu when you can just make your single GPU bigger.

The problem with just adding more compute units is that manufacturing processes are reaching the land of diminishing returns, unless there are some new breakthroughs in chip designs. The rumors are pointing toward AMD moving toward multiple smaller GPU dies on a single package with Navi after Vega.

 

[plopke]

If I understand it correctly a big part of DX12/Vulcan is that multi card rendering is native supported? I think anandtech tested this a while ago with FURY-Maxwell cards together. SLI/Crossfire was always a big mess, SLI/crossfire profiles on paper should only be released for pre Vulcan/DX12 games, NVidia was always quicker with these patchjobs than AMD. Problem is off course that it takes years for game engines to catch up or developers actually implementing it correctly.

But I can't wait until Multi-GPU profile drivers are the way of the dodo.

PS : It never has been this easy to render for multi-gpu configs ever , so yes I think crossfire could happen in consoles but that depends on costs/reliability/power consumption/.....

 

[DamZe]

I want to go to a single High end gpu and PLEASE don't tell me to wait for Vega. That is getting as old as waiting for ZEN.

I'm very happy with the EVGA GTX 980 TI SC and the GTX 1080 is a step up from that.

AMD is MIA.

Vega/Big Pascal are going to make that 1080 obsolete in 6+ months time. But hey if you can't wait go for it!

 

[Paratus]

This is another decision by NV that makes me feel they treat their customers as second class.

• Design and Driver support lack longevity (i.e. Keplers decreasing relative performance)
• Increased day one price on FE cards that thermal throttle when gaming but not benchmarking
• Now, dropping 3&4 SLI support but keeping it for benchmarks

I understand DX12 is changing multi-card, but that last one feels especially egregious. Pay $3000+ so NV can top the benchmarking leader boards and sell more cards.

Ask not what Nvidia can do for you! But what you can do for Nvidia!

 

[ShintaiDK]

You mean the GTX 1080 whitepaper that contains this:



Whilst Nvidia clearly doesn't recommend 3 and 4-way SLI anymore, they quite clearly still promised support for it (in the form of an Enthusiast Key). Secondly that above paragraph clearly mentions games, not benchmarks.

I am sure you missed the "some" part

 

[xthetenth]

I am sure you missed the "some" part

Some is customarily used to represent a non-zero subset.

So I guess the lesson here is trust NV to do the absolute minimum and never have faith in something they do that might work for you.

 

[antihelten]

I am sure you missed the "some" part

Last I checked "some games" is more than "zero games".

 

[thesmokingman]

This is another decision by NV that makes me feel they treat their customers as second class.

They certainly don't treat their customer like a king do they? They don't put much into the classic sales tenets.

 

[RussianSensation]

Just curious, do you really think the 480 will beat the 1070? Gut feeling tells me it won't, and if it does it won't be at a 200msrp anymore. I really hope it beats the 1070 at 200 though. I really want amd to take the market back with low income pricing. If they could get a card out that beats nvidias 1080s or there higher 1080ti's etc later on down the line that would be even better. I've just been let down so many times from amd. Nothing to my knowledge on the ultra high end has beaten nvidia since like the 9800pro days, thats the last card I remember running from amd lol.

For the 100th time, RX480 is an HD7850/7870 replacement. It was never designed to compete with or outperform a GTX670/680 replacement card (that's 1070/1080). For the latter part of your post, it's factually incorrect. AMD held the performance crown with 9800XT, X800XT PE/X850XT PE, X1900XTX/X1950XTX, HD7970Ghz and using latest benchmarks R9 290X vs. 780Ti. It's also unrealistic to expect AMD to release a 230ish mm2 chip for $199 that beats NV's 314mm2 $379-449 chip. AMD would not leave $100-200 MSRP on the table like that for a faster chip.

Didn't they announce this a couple of months ago? Why are we treating this like news?

That's not what they said. They insinuated that 3-way and 4-way SLI was going to work with a special Enthusiast Key but I could already tell it meant beyond 2-way SLI on 1070/1080 was not going to work well with games from that statement. Still, it is a change of marketing statement from what they said during the launch.

They never claimed that. With more than 2 cards you were on your own from the start. And the reason you had to get the code is for that reason.

Factually incorrect again. NV never flat out state that the Enthusiast Key will not allow 3-way and 4-way SLI to work in games. It was implicit in their statements that the key would unlock 3/4-way capability in any apps where NV's driver was coded to take advantage of the extra cards. Now, they are flat out saying that they won't even code the driver for any game specifically for 3/4-way SLI. That's the difference you are missing.

English is my first language and reading their claims earlier, it's quite clear that they would not by default enable 3/4 way SLI BUT they will allow enthusiasts to download a special KEY that enables it.

There was never statements to the fact that they would NOT add 3/4 way SLI to their drivers at all.

That's the new part, now it's official: No driver support for 3/4 SLI except in those benchmarks.

Yup, he is just spinning it, doing his usual PR damage control. More signs nothing on the GPU industry that comes out of his this poster can be taken with any seriousness. The entire forum is better off putting him on ignore.

What terrible terrible support. They are actually charging an extra hundy per card as an early adopter tax and they can't even offer full SLI support. They wring their customers out for more and more and give them less and less.

That is what you have to do to get your stock to go up 50% per year. Yes, NVDA has literally gone up by 50% per year the last 3 years.

It would be smart of them to re-enable at least 3-way SLI on GP102 cards. This way even if they charge $799-899 for GTX1080Ti, there will instantly be gamers who'll buy upgrade from 1080 SLI to 3x 1080Tis because it would have been cheaper than 4x980Tis/Titan X's last gen. If NV is smart, they will do this.

In fairness, I think it's more fitting to focus on 2-way SLI than to have poor SLI support overall. I also think it's better to leave 3-4 way SLI to true flagships of a generation - 1080 isn't that product. What will be interesting to see is if all the gamers who bought 3-4 way SLI for years for supposedly superior gaming performance will now go AMD 4-way Vega if NV limits all of their cards to 2-way SLI only. :sneaky:

I'm pretty sure X1900XT was top, and so were 5870 and 7970 briefly IIRC.

7970/Ghz was in the lead from June 2012 until May 2013 when 780 showed up. I am not including $1000 rip-off OG Titan as that was $ flushed right into the toilet. X1950XT series vs. 7900 series was also no contest, especially in shader intensive modern games at the time. AMD/ATI also had superior MSAA IQ for years.

This is another decision by NV that makes me feel they treat their customers as second class.

NV's loyal customer will take this news as NV is re-doubling its efforts on 2-way SLI because they guys working on 3-4 way SLI will have more time devoted to 2-way SLI specifically. If this becomes true, we won't know for a while but in theory it makes sense. I think 2-way SLI is still very important. I am strongly considering getting 1070 SLI as 1080 seems like a rip-off and wouldn't even be an upgrade for me. In 5 years or so, I think unless things change, once GPUs become fast enough for 4K, multi-GPU might go away completely.

 

[sontin]

That's not what they said. They insinuated that 3-way and 4-way SLI was going to work with a special Enthusiast Key but I could already tell it meant beyond 2-way SLI on 1070/1080 was not going to work well with games from that statement. Still, it is a change of marketing statement from what they said during the launch.

Nonsense. The key was just there to activate 3-way and 4-way SLI. nVidia has never claimed to support this combination.

To unlock 3-Way and 4-Way SLI functionality, enthusiasts will need to acquire a free "Enthusiast Key" from a NVIDIA website

http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/geforce-gtx-1080-gaming-perfected

 

[Smoblikat]

But let me guess, there slightly more powerful $1000+ cards will conveniently allow support for 3+ GPU's?

Does anyone else remember the jump from the GTX 2XX to 4XX? How about HD4XXX to HD5XXX? The performance literally doubled, and prices stayed around the same area. They actually sold us a high end product at a reasonable price. I havent forgotten what their GPU codes mean either. GX1X0 is their high end GPU (GTX 480/580) GX1X4 represents their mid range processors (GTX460/560Ti), and GX1X6 is their low end processors (GTS450/550). Theyve been selling mid range GPU's at high end prices for years and are continually removing features and making them exclusive to their obnoxiously overpriced "flagship" cards. The $1000+ single GPU price segment didnt even exist until nvidia decided that competition wasnt stiff enough to warrant selling quality products to their customers at reasonable prices.

 

[HOOfan 1]

NV's loyal customer will take this news as NV is re-doubling its efforts on 2-way SLI because they guys working on 3-4 way SLI will have more time devoted to 2-way SLI specifically. If this becomes true, we won't know for a while but in theory it makes sense.

Exactly. IF they take the time they would have spent supporting a setup that a minuscule number of people use in order to improve support for the setups that many more people use, then they are improving the experience of more customers.

Not to mention the new APIs which will allow developers to program their own multi-gpu support, makes greater than 2 way SLi/CF profiles even less necessary.

 

[RussianSensation]

Nonsense. The key was just there to activate 3-way and 4-way SLI. nVidia has never claimed to support this combination.

http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/geforce-gtx-1080-gaming-perfected

:sneaky:

"By default the GeForce GTX 1080 supports two GPUs in SLI – as games have evolved, it has become increasingly difficult to provide beneficial performance scaling with 3 or 4 GPUs, and as such 3-Way and 4-Way SLI configurations are no longer recommended.

Not impossible mind you, simply not recommended. To unlock 3-Way and 4-Way SLI functionality, enthusiasts will need to acquire a free "Enthusiast Key" from a NVIDIA website. Simply run the key software on your PC, follow the steps, and you’ll unlock 3-Way and 4-Way SLI functionality."

Not recommended is not the same as doesn't work.

Their marketing is misleading. What they are saying NOW is that games will NOT work in 3-way and 4-way SLI (unless the developer made a DX12 game engine that accesses more GPUs by itself).

Do you think people who bought 3-4 GTX1080s were stupid enough to buy them to run 3dMark FireStrike, Unigine Heaven and Catzilla? No, they bought it because the way NV provided a statement is that 3 and 4-way will still work in games as long as you get the NV Enthusiast Key. NV intentionally made their statement misleading and continues that way on their website.

But let me guess, there slightly more powerful $1000+ cards will conveniently allow support for 3+ GPU's?

I hope they do. Nothing makes me feel better than spending $1000+ on a $500 GTX580 successor and seeing my favourite company approach 60% gross margins. It makes me sleep so much better at night knowing I don't support peasant near bankrupt AMD that designed Polaris 10 to compete against GP104 but once they failed, were forced to drop prices to $199.

 

[thilanliyan]

Last I checked "some games" is more than "zero games".

Lol.
I feel bad for those that bought 3+ nV cards...dunno about you but I'd be pissed if it only worked properly in benchmarks.

 

[garagisti]

NV's loyal customer will take this news as NV is re-doubling its efforts on 2-way SLI because they guys working on 3-4 way SLI will have more time devoted to 2-way SLI specifically. If this becomes true, we won't know for a while but in theory it makes sense. I think 2-way SLI is still very important. I am strongly considering getting 1070 SLI as 1080 seems like a rip-off and wouldn't even be an upgrade for me. In 5 years or so, I think unless things change, once GPUs become fast enough for 4K, multi-GPU might go away completely.

GTX980 and lower etc only allow two way sli. However given the shaft, i mean the price of the 1080 which is but a pascal midrange chip, i thought it would be at least a good deal if people could triple sli at the least. PR damage control is out doing its job quite handily or so it seems here.

 

[sontin]

:sneaky:
Their marketing is misleading. What they are saying NOW is that games will NOT work in 3-way and 4-way SLI (unless the developer made a DX12 game engine that accesses more GPUs by itself).

Do you think people who bought 3-4 GTX1080s were stupid enough to buy them to run 3dMark FireStrike, Unigine Heaven and Catzilla? No, they bought it because the way NV provided a statement is that 3 and 4-way will still work in games as long as you get the NV Enthusiast Key. NV intentionally made their statement misleading and continues that way on their website.

nVidia was very clear from the beginning that 3-4 way SLI will not be supported out of the box:
https://youtu.be/yvJJ4jilxcY?t=429

And it will work in games, too. nVidia will only provide tuned profiles for those applications. You can manually turn it on within the control panel.

But i guess you can show as a few links where nVidia has promised to provide profiles for games to support 3-4 way SLI...