Question Pcie5 nvme drives 2022

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CakeMonster

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Nov 22, 2012
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If PCIE5 drives flash and controller development to improve random performance, then great. The sequential speeds are pretty much meaningless, unless the interface improves latency by itself, but I can hardly imagine that makes much of a difference.
 
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Zoozuu

Zoozuu

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Oct 21, 2020
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Oo they come with heatsinks and multiple safety farts prefarted. That probably means they're going to be so hot the motherboard manufacturers won't be able to put the SSD right next to the GPU anymore like dummies? Lol it says facemelting fast I hope they're not facemeltingly hot.
 
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Justinus

Justinus

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Oct 10, 2005
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Zoozuu said:
Oo they come with heatsinks and multiple safety farts prefarted. That probably means they're going to be so hot the motherboard manufacturers won't be able to put the SSD right next to the GPU anymore like dummies? Lol it says facemelting fast I hope they're not facemeltingly hot.
Click to expand...

:eek:
 
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biostud

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
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CakeMonster said:
If PCIE5 drives flash and controller development to improve random performance, then great. The sequential speeds are pretty much meaningless, unless the interface improves latency by itself, but I can hardly imagine that makes much of a difference.
Click to expand...
I guess we'll see how DirectStorage, RTX IO and SmartAccesStorage will change how storage is utilized in the future.
 
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C

CakeMonster

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Nov 22, 2012
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I'm confused, the article seem to use 'drive' and 'slot' interchangeably. They mean the physical width of actual drive, not the connector, right? So 25mm instead of 22mm. I can't imagine many current mobo's would have something else blocking 1.5mm on each side.
 
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Zoozuu

Zoozuu

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Oct 21, 2020
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seems like it as they talked about it being backwards compatible with gen4. it's probably just put together badly like lots of other articles. some things even though they seem like they're written by chat bots aren't. most articles are copy and pasted specs and the rest is filled in using the chat bot. :p
 
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MysteriousThing

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May 24, 2022
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If they end up changing the width its gonna take even longer for gen5 to catch on imo. Like gen4 has been around for a few years now and I feel it hasn't even become mainstream, if you look at most companies their computers are all gen3 still.
 
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Justinus

Justinus

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Oct 10, 2005
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MysteriousThing said:
If they end up changing the width its gonna take even longer for gen5 to catch on imo. Like gen4 has been around for a few years now and I feel it hasn't even become mainstream, if you look at most companies their computers are all gen3 still.
Click to expand...

As far as I am aware the width specification only applies to the general PCB/drive width. The actual M.2 connector is identical on any width.

That being said, a lot of boards were designed with two pcie slots or other components flanking the M.2 area to only give space for a 22mm drive. Although adding only 3mm to overall width may still fit a lot of cases, that's probably why they added the new size instead of just jumping to 30mm which certainly wouldn't fit most consumer motherboards.
 
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Zoozuu

Zoozuu

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Oct 21, 2020
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MysteriousThing said:
If they end up changing the width its gonna take even longer for gen5 to catch on imo. Like gen4 has been around for a few years now and I feel it hasn't even become mainstream, if you look at most companies their computers are all gen3 still.
Click to expand...
Everyone has an upgrade cycle. My main PC that I don't use for gaming uses gen3 port and I'm using a gen4 ssd. Also the only thing keeping gen4 back was the price and even more subpar technology wasn't it?(mlc vs qlc vs tlc?). Here's another interesting article.Here
 
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biostud

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
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Zoozuu said:
Everyone has an upgrade cycle. My main PC that I don't use for gaming uses gen3 port and I'm using a gen4 ssd. Also the only thing keeping gen4 back was the price and even more subpar technology wasn't it?(mlc vs qlc vs tlc?). Here's another interesting article.Here
Click to expand...
I bought my X99 with an x4 gen3 to future proof it, as some boards came with only X2 slots, and I never bought an nvme drive, before retiring the system :p
 
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Zoozuu

Zoozuu

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Oct 21, 2020
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future proof. bleg.. nothing is future proof. Don't buy stuff with that in your head. Am I going to use this extra large barrel of highly corrosive acid? Yes. Till it's empty. :)
 
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Zoozuu

Zoozuu

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Oct 21, 2020
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I wasn't talking about your choice. Actually it's one I was close to getting. I mean "future proof" itself the two weird words together. You buy something then you buy something else to replace it. Nothing lasted into the future except maybe your hdd. :p
 
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T

Tech Junky

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Jan 27, 2022
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Until they figure out how to make a drive not fall off he face of cliff once the cache is exhausted it doesn't really matter unless all you're moving around are small files.

When moving the touted gigs of data around usually those high speed die after 10-15 seconds when the drive runs out of cache. I can avg 1,.5GB/s between 2 internal drives that are Gen3 and Gen4. I can speed test them at 3-6GB/s but, in real copies they don't hit those speeds. There's a lot of bottlenecks to consider in the path for the data to run into. Even using the latest HW / CPU / etc.

Ideally using a PCI card to bypass the issues with native M2 slots and allow direct communication between drives would get rid of most of the hurdles when it comes to hitting claimed speeds in a sustained speed use. The problem then becomes do you use a switch or bifurcation. If it's Intel you need a switch and AMD it's bifurcation. Intel multi NVME cards get expensive ~$600 for a 4 drive card. AMD ~$100. Most of these cards though still use Gen3 slots / wiring.

https://www.amazon.com/PCIE-Adapter-4x32Gbps-Cooling-Windows/dp/B09XJV6J59 - $42 / 4 drive / bifurcation
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0892VBP7P/ - $500+ / 4 drive / on board switching

The other issue is with the switching module slowing things down to Gen3 speeds or less. Getting into the higher end cards can get better results but, it's insane pricing. Better off building a AMD system for the same price and using the cheaper card.

Gen5 drives really won't matter unless you're doing a lot of data queries like a DB / SQL type of transaction that needs the higher bandwidth. Sure 14GB/s sounds nice but, in reality it's mostly only used during boot of the system. Sure my Gen4 drive allows me to install W11 in ~30seconds but, it doesn't really get touched for speed unless moving tons of files around. A game barely uses it and just loads into the GPU DDR directly with a small increase in RAM usage.

I see the biggest flurry of comments coming from PS5 owners adding M2's to their devices and I think Sony put a minimum speed of the drive at 5GB/s.

It might make sense for people using devices like high res photography if they're equipped with a USB-C port to connect an enclosure to for recording raw files to. Maybe feature movie footage being stored directly to an NVME Raid?
 
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C

CakeMonster

Golden Member
Nov 22, 2012
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Seems like they did some custom numbers compared to CrystalDiskMark default, so I repeated the test (remember to change the values to match it) on my Samsung 970 EVO Plus 2TB (74% full so that might mean a tiny degradation of performance).

Phison E26 PCIE5 from the article:
1653781800052.png


Samsung 970 EVO Plus PCIE3:
CrystalDiskMark_20220529.png

Sequential obviously leaping ahead. The random numbers are decent I suppose, but its not that huge of a difference for 2.5 years and two generations.
 
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Justinus

Justinus

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2005
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CakeMonster said:
Seems like they did some custom numbers compared to CrystalDiskMark default, so I repeated the test (remember to change the values to match it) on my Samsung 970 EVO Plus 2TB (74% full so that might mean a tiny degradation of performance).

Phison E26 PCIE5 from the article:
View attachment 62266


Samsung 970 EVO Plus PCIE3:
View attachment 62267

Sequential obviously leaping ahead. The random numbers are decent I suppose, but its not that huge of a difference for 2.5 years and two generations.
Click to expand...

The good high end PCIE 4.0 SSDs all score 80-90+MB/s on the 4k random Q1T1 reads. That showing is poor for the E26 drive.
 
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Zoozuu

Zoozuu

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Oct 21, 2020
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hmm I just read that active cooling is required? owell..
EDIT: I wonder if this will get some motherboards where there are no sata ports for more room? (*possible remove some other older things?)
Phison Reiterates High Temperatures For PCIe Gen 5 NVMe SSDs, Up To 125C Limit For Controller & Active Cooling Requirement.Mar 27, 2022
Click to expand...
heres a article here
 
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