PCI TV Tuner suggestions?

[Laogeodritt]

Hello,

I'm looking to buy a new TV Tuner to replace my current one, the quality of which is rather unsatisfactory.

I'm not really sure where to start looking; the only name I know anything about is Hauppauge. And from the few reviews I just read, apparently the analog TV Tuner gives a less-than-adequate image... at least, for the PVR 150. From what I gather from various user reviews, the HDTV 1600's analog tuner isn't magnificent.

The minimum I'm looking for is a hardware MPEG-2 encoder, a fair image and clear audio (of course), and the ability to receive both regular cable and composite (and maybe S-Video) inputs with fair quality on both. I plan on both watching/recording television and playing/recording video games on it. I won't be watching over-the-air ATSC signals.


Good bundled software would help (not that that seems particularly common)... my search for acceptable free software in the past never proved very fruitful. (On that note, any suggestions for good free/open-source software on WinXP? I recall gb-pvr always hanging up on me with my current tuner, but I'll try it again...)


My budget is limited to about $150 CAD. Ideally a little less.

Any suggestions?

Thanks a lot,
Laogeodritt

 

[heyheybooboo]

HDTV PCI Tuner Card & USB HDTV Tuner Chart

 

[Markbnj]

Sadly the value of the whole analog tuner-based desktop television solution is declining rapidly, at least for most cable subscribers. Depending on where you live you might want to think about whether it is worth upgrading. Here in NW NJ Comcast dropped channels 24-70 from the analog lineup last summer. I have heard that 2-23 are going in February. Not sure whether that's true, but all the analog channels will be gone from the various cable systems by... I think Feb. '09.

So that leaves over the air, which in some areas is good for 15-20 SD and HD broadcast channels, satellite, which has always been a closed system, or buying into the closed content pipeline of the cable companies. So far that pipeline does not include any reasonable PC-based desktop delivery solution. Cablecard is stalling for lack of support from the cablecos. You can only get them in OEM Vista systems certified by Cable Labs. I think Dell has one, but I haven't heard much about it. Clear QAM is going the way of electron gun-based displays as cablecos tighten up encryption, while steadfastly refusing to tell you which channels are encrypted in your area, or will be in the future. Bottom line is they want you on the box, and they don't want what they see as their bits in your computer.

I had a great home office TV setup for a couple years, but I'm damned if I know which way to go now. I would go ahead and get a cable box if they would support serial tuning so I could keep the desktop DVR integration. I could go STB + IRBlaster... but that's a lot of shit to keep working to get the feed from the right channel through the STB into the cap card and onto my hard disk. I could just bail on the whole integration thing and use another monitor input... but screw that. I want the whole experience, like I've had it for two years. I'd love to get all the premier content over the net and turn Comcast into the water company... like that's going to happen.

 

[jkresh]

Markbnj iptiv is coming (its just a matter of time), stb + irblaster is not bad (especially if you have windows mce or vista (home premium or ultimate), cablecard tunners are still very immature (and as you said they are oem only at least for now).

I have found that at least for now an analog tuner works pretty well with comcast (Boston) and Cablevision (Long Island), though I also have stb's in both places so it may be that some of the analog channels I get would not come through if I wasn't paying for digital (I know that sounds strange). Both also work decently with an irblaster, and if you want to play around with firewire (firestb + mce) you can record nonencrypted digital and hd over firewire.

 

[Blain]

Here's a comparison chart of various tuners.

SOFTWARE and DRIVERS become MAJOR issues when setting up TV cards and getting the best performance out of them.
It becomes a real balancing act between your PC configuration, TV signal source, TV card, TV card drivers, TV programming software and budget.

>> Read through several forums before buying <<
The time you spend reading about other people's TV card troubles, will be time well spent in avoiding problems of your own. :laugh:

 

[Synomenon]

I thought that whole 2009 analog to digital changeover affected only over-the-air cable TV?

 

[mcveigh]

I used to have a hauppage 150 and ant ATI 550, both did very well for capture in MCE, Meedio and then SAGE TV (my fav)
I ditched them for a NVIDIA DUALTV CARD.
only 1 set of drivers, 1 pci slot. I haven't had a single problem with it in sage tv.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: IsLNdbOi
I thought that whole 2009 analog to digital changeover affected only over-the-air cable TV?

Actually, in Feb, 2009, the big deal is the analog to digital changeover in OTA broadcasts.

If anyone has info on how this effects analog cable please link it up.

 

[Markbnj]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: IsLNdbOi
I thought that whole 2009 analog to digital changeover affected only over-the-air cable TV?

Actually, in Feb, 2009, the big deal is the analog to digital changeover in OTA broadcasts.

If anyone has info on how this effects analog cable please link it up.

Below is a summary from a Waco Tribune article with a link to a government info site. Key cable info is in the second-to-last paragraph. The cablecos are required to provide some analog service through 2012, but there is dispute over what that means. In our area we are already down to the lower 23 channels for analog, and apparently that could shrink. It's already a piss-poor choice for anything other than network programming. Maybe if these digital converters become widely available that could provide a way to get more channels to an analog tuner device. But those converters aren't going to handle anything above channel 23 anyway, I'm guessing.

~~~

The big question some TV viewers have: Do I have to buy a new TV when the switch to digital takes place Feb. 17, 2009?

Short answer: No, but you might have to buy a set-top converter, depending on what kind of set you own and how you get your programming. Here?s how you might be affected.

If you have an analog TV and get your signal over the air: You?ll need a set-top converter box to convert digital signals to analog ones that your set can display. How do you know if it?s analog? If your set is more than two years old and has a picture tube as opposed to a flat-screen, chances are it?s an analog set.

The government will provide a limited number of $40 coupons to defray the cost of a digital converter, presently about $90-$100.

Without a digital converter, your analog set will not pick up programming.

If you have a digital television set, you?re good to go: Newer digital sets have built-in tuners. Older sets or those labeled ?HDTV or digital ready? may need an external tuner.

If you subscribe to a satellite TV service, you?re also good to go: Satellite TV uses digital signals. If yours feeds into a digital TV, you?ll see no change. If it feeds into an analog set, your satellite company must provide analog service through 2012.

If you subscribe to a cable television service, ditto:

If you?re already a digital television or high definition television subscriber, you?re set. If you have an analog set, your cable company, like satellite television companies, must provide analog service through 2012. However, an analog set can?t capture the full quality of a digital image, and there?s some question whether cable companies are obligated to provide more than local channels to their analog customers. There?s also a question whether those customers will see their cable rates rise due to the cable companies? extra cost of providing and maintaining digital and analog equipment.

About those coupons: Beginning Jan. 1, 2008, the National Telecommunications and Information Administration will start accepting requests for converter coupons. Under current guidelines, those applying will be limited to two coupons per household, good for 90 days, and on a first-come, first-served basis. Consumers can apply online, by toll-free number or by mail through March 31, 2009. For coupon information, call 1-888-DTV-2009 or 1-888-388-2009 or visit www.dtv.gov.

 

[Synomenon]

Just great. So all the cheap analog TVs we have around the house will be useless after this changeover.

 

[Blain]

There will be $35-$40 converter boxes, for the same resolution as today.

 

[Synomenon]

These converter boxes will allow us to watch all these digital channels on our analog TVs?

 

[erwos]

Originally posted by: IsLNdbOi
These converter boxes will allow us to watch all these digital channels on our analog TVs?

Yes, that's exactly how they work.

As for the tuner suggestions, I picked up an AVC-3610 for $60USD ($60CAD, I guess) a couple weeks back, and it's working quite nicely in Vista Media Center. That's a USB dual tuner, but it's not as if streaming SD MPEG2 is very bandwidth intensive, either. What is particularly nice about it is the array of inputs - it's got two composite/s-video connections. No idea about the bundled software, though.

 

[Markbnj]

Originally posted by: erwos

Originally posted by: IsLNdbOi
These converter boxes will allow us to watch all these digital channels on our analog TVs?

Yes, that's exactly how they work.

I think that's really unclear at this point. One thing seems certain: only the core broadcast channels will be available through the converter boxes. The cable companies have no incentive or regulatory mandate to offer any of their other content over analog channels.

 

[Laogeodritt]

Well, er, thanks to those who offered on-topic advice. X3 I'm not sure if Canada has taken a similar decision for a digital changeover... anyone?


@erwos:Although we're somewhere around parity with the US dollar, our prices haven't changed. Québec's merchandise in brick-and-mortars, especially, is still overpriced, too. So I'd say $80-100 CAD would be more realistic if I shopped locally.

Well, thanks for the advice. I sorta prefer a PCI tuner?not that I absolutely need one, so I'll look into that. Two composites is quite appealing, in fact. X3

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: Markbnj

Originally posted by: erwos

Originally posted by: IsLNdbOi
These converter boxes will allow us to watch all these digital channels on our analog TVs?

Yes, that's exactly how they work.

I think that's really unclear at this point. One thing seems certain: only the core broadcast channels will be available through the converter boxes. The cable companies have no incentive or regulatory mandate to offer any of their other content over analog channels.

Here's my deal with cable and why the analog/digital question interests me.

I do OTA and cable with an A/B switch to the single input on my Fusion5.

My cable is Charter 'expanded basic'. The Fusion recognizes my expanded basic as 'analog' channels and recognizes 12 unencrypted digital channels (half are local - the others are like 'Fine Living', G4, etc. - not in really high demand ). I also receive all of the digital music channels.

The problem is the picture quality of the analog cable. It sucks. Not even up to OTA standard def quality. I've got great signal strength and capture but the analog cable is just terrible.

My question about Feb, 2009, is directed toward the 'obligations' to the cable companies upon the digital OTA changeover. I note your comment that they effectively have no obligations - and I have that same fear, even more so.

It looks to me like they will be able to convert the OTA local HD to their analog tier - and then charge premiums for the same OTA local on their digital tier.

And that's just plain wrong.

 

[nordloewelabs]

Cable Co's wont have to shut down analog transmissions in 2009 or later.... such rule only applies to Over The Air broadcast because the FCC wants to free up the frequency spectrum (because an Analog channel takes A LOT more bandwidth than a Digital one) so that they can lease it to Wireless Co's. the cables used by Cable Co's are of no use for the FCC.

when a Cable Co drops an Analog channel to make it available only on the Digital package, they do it for "greed". by dropping the channel, they free up bandwidth on their copper and that allows them to "invent" 10 extra "senseless" digital channels that they can use to lure customers to more expensive packages.

regarding the TV Card.... i definitely recommend Hauppauge's hardware. i have 2 PVR-250 and got a friend an HVR-1600. picture quality is as good as regular TV. if the picture looks fuzzy, it's only because ppl are watching it on a LCD monitor. LCDs were made for Hi-Resolution signals, not the Low-Resolution one. the Hi-Res nature of LCDs "give away" the imperfections of the Lo-Res analog signal. a regular CRT TV set is a jurassic piece of equipment that, although old, was especially designed to take advantage of the Lo-Res charateristics of an analog signal.

to exemplify this: stare at a beautiful woman from a distance of 3 feet. you wont see any flaws on her skin. grab a microscope and look at her skin again, you will see cracks, scars, germs, etc. that's what the LCD does with analog signals....it shows it's noise and imperfections.

get a TV card with built-in MPEG-2 encoder and you will be fine! if you can receive Digital broadcast in your house, great! the Hauppauge HVR-1600 and a few other brands can handle Hi-Def and QAM (unencrypted Digital signal).

Newegg had the HVR-1600 with a $20 rebate before Xmas.... i dont know if the deal is still standing, though.

 

[erwos]

Originally posted by: Markbnj

Originally posted by: erwos

Originally posted by: IsLNdbOi
These converter boxes will allow us to watch all these digital channels on our analog TVs?

Yes, that's exactly how they work.

I think that's really unclear at this point. One thing seems certain: only the core broadcast channels will be available through the converter boxes. The cable companies have no incentive or regulatory mandate to offer any of their other content over analog channels.

You're talking about cable, whereas I was talking about OTA (which is really what the whole cut-off is about, at least directly). Besides, you can get cable boxes which will output over analog already, so I'm not sure what your point is.

What you were trying to say is that not everything will be broadcast over clear QAM, which is true, but not all that relevant, IMHO.

 

[Synomenon]

Originally posted by: erwos

Originally posted by: Markbnj

Originally posted by: erwos

Originally posted by: IsLNdbOi
These converter boxes will allow us to watch all these digital channels on our analog TVs?

Yes, that's exactly how they work.

I think that's really unclear at this point. One thing seems certain: only the core broadcast channels will be available through the converter boxes. The cable companies have no incentive or regulatory mandate to offer any of their other content over analog channels.

You're talking about cable, whereas I was talking about OTA (which is really what the whole cut-off is about, at least directly). Besides, you can get cable boxes which will output over analog already, so I'm not sure what your point is.

What you were trying to say is that not everything will be broadcast over clear QAM, which is true, but not all that relevant, IMHO.

Ok, that's what I thought it was. So our TV tuner cards won't be useless. We'll still be able to use them with cable TV.

 

[zixxer]

I've used a hauppauge pvr500 for about 3 years now and haven't had any major problems. Vista supports it natively too..

 

[Markbnj]

You're talking about cable, whereas I was talking about OTA (which is really what the whole cut-off is about, at least directly). Besides, you can get cable boxes which will output over analog already, so I'm not sure what your point is.

What you were trying to say is that not everything will be broadcast over clear QAM, which is true, but not all that relevant, IMHO.

You're right that the regulatory cutoff in analog transmission applies only to "full power broadcast TV stations" as the dtv.gov site puts it. The rule that applies to cablecos is that they must offer analog feeds of the local broadcast channels as long as they offer any analog service.

Whatever the motivation is, the fact is that cablecos are dropping analog service. I gave my own experience in the northeast, and there's plenty of other evidence of the trend as well. It makes perfect sense. There's no real reason for cablecos to continue to offer old RF transmission channels when the government is doing away with analog broadcasts completely. All of the cable content will move to digital channels, and most of it will be encrypted. If they retain any analog service, say five years out, it will be the local broadcast channels, and since those channels themselves will no longer be broadcasting an analog signal, it's hard to see why the cablecos would feel compelled.

So all the content is going digital. I don't think there will be much disagreement on that point here.

Yes, you can output analog on channel 3 or 4 from every cable box. BFD. The signal quality sucks and you need an external tuning solution to integrate with a desktop PVR. Heck, at that point you don't need a tuner card at all. What you need is an inexpensive NTSC capture card. The tuner is redundant.

Really, it's tough to see how anyone could see much value a couple of years out in an analog tuner card. Mine is good for 23 channels at this point, and 14 or 15 of those are just crap like QVC. My original point seems solid to me: analog content is going away, and the cablecos are not providing any good integrated way to get digital content in a desktop solution. Maybe Cablecard will actually take off, but nothing I've seen indicates that the cablecos have any real interest in it at all, and why would they?

 

[0roo0roo]

yup only hd tv tuners worth buying now.
my analog hauppages worked well for almost 8 years now...almost time for it to go