PC unstable OC'ing AMD XP 2700+ on DFI NFII Lanparty Ultra

[xenontech]

Sorry about the repost.... but i did post this once in the motherboard forum. Didn't get any reply, so I guess I had posted it in the wrong place. I need some help. I find my PC very unstable with only slight overclocking.

I have read that the DFI NFII Ultra is the best motherboard out there and is good for overclocking. So, I went ahead and got myself one. Because I am new at overclocking, I didn't want to mess up the processor or motherboard. So, I didn't do anything extreme (I think...). Here's what I did:

CPU clock: 210 Mhz
FSB = 2 x CPU clock = 420Mhz
CPU ratio: 11
DDR ratio: 1:1
CPU voltage = 1.75V
Chipset voltage = Auto
DRAM voltage = 2.8V

System specs:

DFI NFII Lanparty Ultra mobo
AMD XP 2700+
ThermalTake Volcano 11 heatsink and fan
Single piece of 512 Corsair XMS DDR 3200 with heat spreader (CAS 2)
GForce2 GTS 64MB (I know it's about time I upgraded this.... but currenly am broke)


I didn't mess with the AGP speed or the memory timing. But, I realized that with the overclocking specs above, my PC is very, very unstable. The motherboard won't post if my CPU clock went above 210Mhz or if I set my DDR ratio above 1:1 ratio. I have to set the reset jumper on the mobo. I have read ppl achieving about 230Mhz and 5:6 ratios on the same CAS 2 memory I got. I have tried lowering my multiplier to achieve FSB above 215Mhz but Windows just wouldn't start and I would get a lot of error messages such as "hard drive not found" or "error reading file" , etc. Sandra Sisasoft Burn-in program will stop responding and quit by itself. I do monitor the temperature at all times and it never goes over 50 degrees celcius or 122 degrees F. Temperature wise is ok.

Can anybody tell me what I'm doing wrong here? I read an article at Tomshardware that chips can be overclocked approx 30% pass it's rated speeds. 30% pass 2160Mhz for XP2700+ would be somewhere near 2800Mhz. But I'm not anywhere near!! Would appreciate it if someone could advise me on what settings to change. Also, if I were to change the timing for a single channel CAS 2 memory, what should I set them to? And, lastly.... how do u figure out how much voltage to set for the CPU, memory and chipset?

 

[AngryGames]

xenon, I know that Anandtech review showed Corsair XMS RAM, but honestly, in all the issues that have arisen so far, most of them involve the use of XMS RAM and it just doesn't like the NF2.

There have been a number of users in the AMDMB forum that have come in with problems, and the ones that I suggested to try some known-working RAM with (Buffalo CH-5 Winbond, GEIL Golden Dragon, Mushkin, HyperX) the problems go away.

Some customers don't want to hear that their $150-per-stick RAM does not work in the NF2 LanParty well.

Then again, there are a few customers who have successfully gotten their XMS to work properly, and I think it has to do with revisions of the XMS, like 1.1 was terrible on NF2 boards while 1.2 works pretty darn good.

Mainly I am saying, check with some other known good RAM for this particular board. The old rule of 'just because it works in your ASUS doesn't mean it works in your Abit' is always in full effect, especially with NF2 chipsets.

now that little bit is done, I'll try to shoot some helpful tips on your current setup, because no one likes to have to buy MORE crap to get their rig running right!

here's how a lot of us have gotten that extra bit of overclocking:

first thing I do is bump up the AGP voltage to 1.6. This might not be as helpful with your old GTS card, but its very helpful for power hungry cards like Radeons and FX cards. It wont hurt to bump it to 1.6 I'm pretty sure, as my old Leadtek WinFast GeFroce2 GTS 32MB would take 1.6 and not give me hassles =)

Chipset voltage: this is the biggest help so far in overclocking this board. Jump your chipset voltage to the max of 1.9v and make sure you have some kind of cooling/airflow on it. I have my SK-7's fan sitting pretty even with the top of the SK-7, and a lot of overhang on the bottom so that the extra airflow from the cpu fan is hitting that NB heatsink. I also have a case fan on the side panel blowing directly over the Radeon and the NB heatsink. Lots of users (especially GEIL Golden Dragon and Buffalo RAM users) have gotten an extra 100+ Mhz out of jumping the chipset voltage up to the max.

DRAM...here's a funny thing...my Buffalo hates less than the max of 2.8v the board gives. Wont overclock worth diddly really. Another user, with a system almost exactly like mine (just a different brand of vid card is only difference) gets BSOD all day long at 2.8v. He ordered the same RAM from the same place as me =/. Loves 2.6 and 2.7 volts, hates 2.8...

also, when overclocking, your memory timings become very important. Say for example my HyperX runs 5-2-2-2....well, after its rated speed of 400DDR is hit, and you go up to say 420DDR like yours, the stock timings usually get thrown out the window, and you have to start adjusting timings. Getting my RAM up to 420DDR usually requires I drop some timings down to 6-3-3-2, and even 7-3-3-2.5. Each and every user will come up with a different way to go about it. Its all about taking the long boring time to keep plugging away until you get the thing to go stable.

The one thing I would like to see is the Anadtech reviewer or anyone else that uses XMS on this board to post and give you some specific hints/tips to your memory. I've been unable to get XMS of any kind to work successfully in either the NF2 LanParty or the Ultra-AL NF2.

your cpu voltages should be ok. Bartons will run a lot of times at 300Mhz or more past their rated speed without a voltage increase. Sometimes though they need 1.850 volts to reach their peak/stability.

Overclocking is like trying to soup up your car engine...soooo many things you can do, and they all need to balance...like putting a bigger cam in will surely give you more power, but now its not balanced with your valves, intake, etc. Same with putting bigger carb on your engine, you might get 850cfm of fuel/air, but the engine might not be ready for that big giant intake of fuel and air. (im NOT a car guy or mechanic btw so if you motorheads laugh at me its cool lol).

I just woke up so i am not sure if I am even making sense =) I'll check back about 9pm tonight if I can remember and see if it really was just a bunch of gobbledeegook hehe.

Travis

 

[sykopath79]

I'm having wonderful success with my Mushkin PC3500 Level II, timings aren't a problem since it's rated for 2-2-2-5 up to DDR433 (217 FSB) and I can't get my FSB up that high stable, due to either the CPU itself or the chipset. Haven't tried monkeying around with chipset voltage much yet though but I think I will since I can't get above 11x200 and remain stable.

Also I've been noticing my video crash out a couple times lately (things that before would have appeared as "general system freezing" but thanks to the 3.8 Cats the ATI control panel actually resets the video and tells me it was a video crash). Halo crashed out a couple times, and earlier while watching a DVD it went to all fuxx0red wierd blocks of color around the screen and nothing even vaguely resembling the actual video stream. Perhaps I need to try boosting my AGP voltage... the board undervolts everything else it seems so I wouldn't be surprised if this gives AGP some problems.

Anyone else noticed their Lanparty NFII Ultra undervolting by ~0.05V??

 

[xenontech]

Thanks AngryGames for your reply. I have a few questions on your reply tho'.

1. How do I know what version of XMS I have? Do you think I can RMA it for a newer version? I got mine from ZipZoomFly (perviously Googlegear).

2. My XMS is rated CAS 2. And it has been tested (by reviews) to be able to run 5-2-2-2 timing. How come I cannot achive 5-2-2-2 at rated 400Mhz speed? My PC won't post at all. What u mentioned is if I OC past 400Mhz, i have to relax the timing a little right? But, even at 400Mhz, the motherboard just refuses to post if I did anything to the timings. Is this a problem with memory or motherboard?

3. I did up my chipset voltage to 1.9V and AGP voltage to 1.6V. PC is stable. But, I do get occasional Windows Protection Error blue screen and the computer reboots by itself. This happens maybe once in 1 hour or so with normal use (net browsing, MS Office) without any stress to it.

I haven't tried upping the FSB or CPU clock or CPU multiplier yet. Will be out of town for a while before I can OC further. Will post my latest development when I get the chance to. Thanks again AngryGames for making this forum one of the best online!!!

 

[DerwenArtos12]

Corsair and this board do not really get along al that well. You have to loosen the timings some to get it to run. I am not sure if I saw that you did or not but did you lock the AGP by manually setting it to 66mhz? At stock speeds I do not see why you needed to up your chipset voltage or your AGP voltages. And depending on how old that XMS is you may have the BH-5 chips which is great ram everywhere but on these boards. They do not like the BH-5 chips. I have XMS with the CH-5 chips and the board is happy with stok volts all around accept on the cpu because i have my 2800+ @ 3200+ and I had to set my RAM timings down to 2-3-3-7. If you have any other questions i would be happy to help as i have a very similar setup.

 

[AngryGames]

I just read somewhere else a post about NF2 boards not liking much RAM other than the Winbond. I can say there are a couple users of the Buffalo PC3200 BH-5 and TwinMOS PC3700 BH-5 RAM on the NF2 LP and its very stable and nice clocking for both of them.

I have just fired off a letter to Corsair, asking (heh pleading almost) them to get us at DFI some of their RAM so we may test it completely. I even offered them a couple boards to do their own testing if they were interested. The worst part of this all is we are seeing XMS crapping out in most situations and we don't really have any in the USA lab (or my lab lol) to test out. So if anyone knows someone at Corsair, tell them not to toss my email out as a scam/prank! lol.

1. As to which version of XMS...I would say simply call Corsair and talk to one of the techs. They can probably tell right off what they are, and what they might be able to do for you about it. Feel free to mention that you have been seeking help here at Anand and DFI's rep here, and this is not a rare, localized incident, that others are having this problem. Heh, you dont have to crusade, just don't let them brush you off with a 'we tested it and it works' thing. Have them contact me if necessary. Travis@dfiweb.com.

2. Again this is an XMS issue. As the poster above me states, you have to loosen your timings, and yes even at a stock/standard/default speed. Even then it won't work most of the time (in my experiences). This is an issue we are very much searching out solutions for!

3. if you aren't overclocking, there's really no need to ramp the chipset voltages up to max. I always add .1v to my AGP, as its a Radeon or a big fat Ti4400 and gets power off the psu...but still...I just do it =).


Derwin thx for pitching in there =). I'd appreciate the help you can give xenon until I can procure some of this XMS for myself. As I tell everyone in the AMDMB forum, if I had it, i'd have found a way to make it work by now or thrown it into the fire heh.

As always, never hesitate to ask questions!

Travis

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Can anybody tell me what I'm doing wrong here? I read an article at Tomshardware that chips can be overclocked approx 30% pass it's rated speeds. 30% pass 2160Mhz for XP2700+ would be somewhere near 2800Mhz. But I'm not anywhere near!!

Your expectations are unrealistic and that blurb must be incomplete or out of context because that's nonsense. Don't expect more than 2.4-2.5ghz at the outside using air cooling with T-breds and Bartons. Your's may only do 2.2-2.35ghz stable on reasonable voltage=1.9v so use all the voltage tweaks and other advcie that AngryGames suggested and shoot for approx. 2.4ghz 430DDR synch mode as that is tough enough to hit stable

 

[AngryGames]

Punisher is right. I've barely hit 2.4Ghz with my Barton2500, and its a real good overclocker.

Thing that Tom's doesn't mention is that the reason the XP1700 and Barton2500 are such 'magical' overclockers is because they are from a high-yield fab, and are running the same cores as their big brothers of much higher speeds. The XP3000 doesn't overclock nearly as well as the XP2500 as its basically maxing out the same chip that the Barton2500 is using. Thats why its so easy to get XP3200 speeds on a Barton2500, and very hard if possible at all to get 3Ghz clocks out of the XP3000. XP3000 is already a factory-set XP2500 @ XP3000 speeds (if that makes sense?).

If you look at this table here:

http://www.angrygames.com/AMD_CPU/AMD_CPU/AMD_CPU.htm

you can see the XP1700 that is the 'magical' one by the low voltage. These chips came out of the fab and were tested and found to run @ XP1700 speeds with only 1.5v (AXDA1700DLT3C 1700+ 1467MHz 11x 1.50V). These chips are really the same as the 1.6v XP1700's, they just perform better and at lower voltages. Its the luck of the fab I guess. Gainward, a very popular vid card maker does the same thing...normal cards that pass inspection get say a Ti4200 stamp. Some pass inspection with such excellent specs (like they overclock past a certain % etc) that they get labeled "Golden Sample" and you pay more for. Same card, same production lot usually, just some are better than others!

ugh, I hope all ofthis makes sense!

 

[DerwenArtos12]

Angry I have a question for you. Why do you like to overvolt your vid cards even if they feed off of the PSU. I have a 9600 which doesn't so i was forced to overvolt it to get my overclock out of but if it is feeding off the psu then why? Is it just so you don't have to do the voltage mods on the board?

 

[AngryGames]

my feeling is that there was a time when the AGP slots couldn't provide enough steady voltage to the AGP cards. That was apparently resolved. Running at stock speeds, with non-high performance cards...say a GF4 MX or Radeon9100 etc, I don't really see a need to overvolte the AGP.

Other times though, in my own experiences, is that high-end cards like my monster Ti4400 and the Radeon9700Pro demand a lot of voltage. Hence the extra power connecter as you mentioned. But still, this does not resolve what is to me, the weak link on the board, and thats the power to the AGP slot. This is any board btw, not just DFI boards.

In overclocking, you are asking the buses to run higher than they were intended to, causing stress and undervolting as the component/bus runs faster than intended on stock settings. When you start pulling away power from your chipset and RAM by running them higher than intended on default power/voltages, you are also pulling power off the AGP trace. Even if you lock it at 66Mhz.

Now some electrical engineer might laugh and say I am smoking bleach crystals, and that might very well be true, as I am not an engineer of anything except my own doom heh. But again, my personal experiences show that bumping up the AGP voltage just a tad ensures that the AGP slot will provide enough steady power, even a tad more than it really needs. Not enough to bust something though.

Hrmmm...sometimes I hate when I dont think I am making any sense explaining something....let me use another example:
(and again, im not a car guy!)

i got me a mustang, 302 engine, all stock right?

k, well, i want it to go faster. So my buddy gets me a Holley 850CFM carb. Great, now I can pump more fuel and air into the manifold.

but wait, my manifold can only accept so much air and fuel cuz its still stock and so will be a bit of bottleneck. Ok, so I change my manifold out now.

Great, except my heads and valves are still stock...so now I have to upgrade them too.

And now my camshaft is still stock, and I got all this power except its weak there too. New camshaft...whats left? Exhaust...gotta improve exhaust!

So see, I could just say, overclock my carb/manifold (cpu/RAM) and get decent results, but then a weak head/valve system (chipset) would maybe hold me back, as would a weak camshaft (AGP), and weak exhaust (airflow/cooling). I'm of the mind that if I am gonna get my Mustang running top-notch all the way around, I am going to make sure I give a little to each component involved. I probably might not need a new cam (more AGP voltage) to still get expected improvements with the rest being ramped up, but how about just having a new cam (a bit more AGP voltage) in case I need it?

*sigh* sometimes I think I never make sense and just ramble like Timothy Leary hehe

 

[DerwenArtos12]

It does make sence but as I am studying electrical engineering maybe i can help you out. Each of the voltages on the motherboard are pretty set, so even if you chage one of two teh PSU adds more volts to them so it is pretty useless with cards that havew an extra power connector. Now on the other hand if you are not willing to do voltage mods then youa re doing it in a round-about but not incorrect way. Voltage mods are designed to draw more power from the extra power connector on board. Adding extra voltage to teh AGP bus does essentially the same thing. Accept that you are adding more power to the whole card instead of just sreamlining the power to the GPU or RAM. To continue the car analogy; adding power to your AGp bus is like addign a propane system to a Diesel engine. It adds productivity when you really crank it up but is essentially useless unless you really stand on the gas pedal.

 

[AngryGames]

booyah you understand!

 

[tweakmaster420]

hey, i got the nf2 lanparty board to oc pretty well., im runnin ver 1.2 twin xms llpt@2.80v 2-2-3-5 timings, athlon xp 3000+ 400 @ 2.315ghz 420bus/1.75v. didnt change any other voltages. i just got a non pro 9800 yesterday, stuck it in oc'd to 385/325 all stable with good 3dmark 2003 scores of 5659 default setting whql driver.from what i see this is a pretty good score right?

 

[tweakmaster420]

looks like you forgot to lock your agp at 66mhz. change auto to 66. that should do it...

 

[xenontech]

Ok, thanks for the helpful comments from all ya ppl! I've been able to make some progress on my system. First thing I'd like to say is that I have confirmed that my Corsair XMS memory is of version 2.2 as it is printed on the sticker on the memory module. And, I know this piece sux as it is not very compatible with the DFI motherboard I have. I have tried relaxing the timing of my rated CAS 2 memory up to 10-6-6-3 and it was still impossible to go above 200Mhz - it never can!! My PC would fail terribly on Prime95 coming with an error in just as soon as 2 seconds or less. So, I have to stick with 200Mhz. I tried to get ZipZoomFly to give me an exchange for a Kinston HyperX or something but they don't do exchanges.

But, anyway I managed to bump up the CPU multiplier up to 12X and it ran Prime95 error free for almost 1 hour (which is great I think!). A CPU multiplier of above 12X would then start to give errors again within a second or two. Also, I had to pump in 1.825 V to the CPU. CPU voltages below 1.825 would give me lots of errors. One thing I noticed is that the memory didn't really care what voltage I gave to it. If I set it at AUTO, it will still be ok. The best system frequency I was able to achieve was 2400 Mhz with a max temperature of about 55 degrees C when stressed under Prime95. There was no way for me to get above 2400 Mhz. I couldn't get 2400Mhz by dropping the multipler and increasing the FSB above 400Mhz for some unknown reason.... probably because of the RAM.

Here's the latest setting I have on my system now:

CPU Clock: 200Mhz
FSB: 2 x 200Mhz = 400Mhz
AGP Clock: 66Mhz
CPU ratio: 12
DDR clock ratio: 1:1

T(RAS): 6
T(RCD): 3
T(RP): 3
CAS Latency: 2.5

CPU Voltage: 1.825 V (any value below this would give me errors in Prime95 and Windows protection error)
AGP Voltage: AUTO
Chipset Voltage: 1.8 V
DRAM Voltage: 2.7 V

I am planning on getting rid of my Corsair XMS on ebay and getting a new piece of RAM that will be compatible with the motherboard. I'm hoping to go higher on the FSB with lower multiplier. But, I'm happy for now.

 

[xenontech]

Oh, BTW how can I know what core is in a certain AMD chip. Like, how would I know if it's a T-bred or Barton or something like that. I've looked up the AMD website and it says nothing about what core it has in each chip.

 

[AngryGames]

AMD CPU Tables for cpu cores/voltages/bus speeds

Try sending an email to corsair themselves. DFI just had their main rep in the lab this morning, and we went over a lot of things. He did tell me that Corsair is no different than any other mfg, that they too can have underperforming products. Like most good mfg's their rate of this is low, but again, it can happen.

Fire off an email to them describing the problem, and see if they can do something for you since zipzoomfly wont exchange.

If you have the extra money, I suggest looking at Buffalo/TwinMOS with the Winbond CH-5 chips. A good many of us have this RAM (Buffalo PC3200 CH-5 Winbond for me and I love it!) and it performs very very well. Mainly its the Winbond CH-5 chip that is such a good compatible module. The newer Hynix modules are compatible also, though they generally run in the PC4000/PC4200 speeds.

Make sure you tell them you have the DFI LanParty NF2 board, as they received one of those, and one of the DFI Intel I875 boards in exchange for giving our lab some of their XMS =)

T

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: xenontech
Oh, BTW how can I know what core is in a certain AMD chip. Like, how would I know if it's a T-bred or Barton or something like that. I've looked up the AMD website and it says nothing about what core it has in each chip.

Just download and use
CPU-Z to find out info about the CPU you have.

 

[xenontech]

This is just an update on my overclocking. I just got my RAM replaced by Corsair yesterday. I shipped them my problematic v2.2 XMS and they returned a v1.2. Now, my PC is at stable @ 2415Mhz with hours of error free on Prime95. Fortunately, this time I am able to set my CPU clock above 200Mhz. Here are my latest settings:

CPU Clock: 210Mhz
FSB: 2 x 200Mhz = 420Mhz
AGP Clock: 66Mhz
CPU ratio: 11.5
DDR clock ratio: 1:1

T(RAS): 7
T(RCD): 3
T(RP): 4
CAS Latency: 3

CPU Voltage: 1.825 V
AGP Voltage: AUTO
Chipset Voltage: AUTO
DRAM Voltage: AUTO (for some reason, if I set it other than AUTO, I will get errors on prime95)

Temperature steadies out at 55 deg C under stress (prime95)
Normal operating temperature around 40 deg C

Thanks to those who contributed their helpful comments. Hopefully others with similar system setup can benefit from this post when they wish to overclock as well. :sun: