PC Stuck After HW Upgrades....

[Zadillo]

Hi all,

I just finished doing some hardware upgrades, and my PC seems to not want to actually boot up now.

To explain, my setup had been:

Antec SLK3700BQE case with Antec 350w bundled PSU
Stock 120mm Antec fan (the one bundled with it)
MSI K8T Neo MB
Athlon 64 3200+ with Stock HSF
2x 512MB Kingston HyperX RAM
PNY GeForce 6800GT with stock fan
1 80GB Maxtor IDE HD
1 120GB WD IDE HD
1 Plextor PX-708A DVD burner
1 Sony DVD-ROM/CD-RW combo drive


The upgrades I did were:

Thermalright XP-90 with Panaflo LB1X fan to replace the stock AMD HSF
Arctic Cooling NV Silencer 5 to replace stock cooling on 6800GT
Vantec Stealth 120mm Fan, mounted as an intake fan on the front of the SLK3700BQE
Antec SmartCool 120mm Fan on the back as an exhaust fan, replacing the bundled Antec fan that came with the SLK3700BQE

I used the bundled arctic cooling silicon compound paste with the NV Silencer 5, and I used Antec Formula 5 Silver Thermal Compound with the XP-90

Anyway, after doing these upgrades, and plugging everything back in as it had been before, the computer is no longer starting up properly.

I have the MSI D-Bracker 2 installed, which has diagnostic LED's on it.

The LED's are showing up in this pattern:

Green Red
Red Red

According to the manual, this means "Early Chipset Initiation".

I have checked things out, and I see all the fans spin up when I power on (the two 120mm fans, the fan in the NV Silencer 5 and the Panaflo LB1X on the XP-90).

Can anyone offer me any advice on what the problem might be and how I could fix it? It seems like everything should be OK, but I'm not sure.

Any advice you can offer would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Zadillo

 

[mechBgon]

To start with, I wouldn't be trying to run four drives, two memory modules, an A64, a 120mm fan and a 6800GT off of the stock Antec SL350. Now you've added a couple more 12-volt-sucking fans to the already-12-volt-heavy load, and the computer won't POST anymore...?

~ hmmmmmmm. now what could possibly cause THAT.

Slap a nice Enermax Whisper II 460W unit into it, they have an exceptional 12-volt rail, 33 amps if I remember correctly. Save your 350W unit for something less demanding.

 

[lucky9]

mechBgon is almost certainly right.

Unplug nonessential fans, leave the side off, make sure visually that the cpu fan is running when you power up. See if it boots.

By the way, you did check all connections, including pci and memory cards to make sure they were all as they should be....best way is to remove and replace each one before powering up.

 

[Zadillo]

Thanks. I kind of suspected maybe it was the PSU........... I was kind of surprised the PSU was handling what it was I guess.

I did check the various PCI and memory connections, etc. and everything was pretty much as I had it set up before.

I will try unplugging some of the non-essential stuff and see if that makes a difference (I guess it would at least confirm it's a PSU issue).

Regarding PSU's, would you recommend any of these other PSU's? The reason I ask is that these are available down at CompUSA so I could go pick one up today:

Surepower 500watt BTX / ATX Smart Cable Power Supply
Manufacturer: Mad Dog Multimedia
(they also seem to stock 450 and 550watt versions of this)

480 Watt NeoPower 480 ATX 12v Power Supply
Manufacturer: Antec

500 Watt X-Connect ATX Power Supply
Manufacturer: Ultra

TrueBlue 480 Watt ATX12v Illuminated Power Supply
Manufacturer: Antec

Best Buy seems to have some as well..... this one be OK?

Antec - TruePower 430-Watt ATX CPU Power Supply TRUE430

If none of these would be good, are there any other PSU's besides the Enermax you'd recommend available at newegg? Just browsing through newegg some of them looked pretty interesting, like the Aspire 520W PSU for $60, etc.

-Zadillo

 

[Zadillo]

Hrmm. I just tried something. I unplugged both 120mm fans, the second hard drive and the Plextor DVD burner and Sony combo drive......... but the computer still seems to get stuck (and the D-Bracker gives the same diagnostic code indicating "Early Chipset Initialization"). I do see the Panaflo fan on the XP-90 still running (along with the fan in the NV Silencer 5).

Is that a bad sign?

Any ideas before I buy a new PSU? I know buying a new PSU is a good idea anyway at this point, but I want to try and verify I haven't messed something else up as well. I'm kind of concerned that unplugging all of that extra stuff doesn't seem to have changed anything.

 

[mechBgon]

You didn't happen to leave your ATX12V cable unplugged or forget to plug the powerline into the 6800GT, by any chance?

I would also try unplugging the system, taking out the CMOS battery, clearing the CMOS with the jumper, then put the battery back and plug it in. Good luck!

 

[daniel49]

emphasize recheck everything is seated properly and no loose wires.
any video output at all or you even seeing post?

 

[Zadillo]

No, everything is plugged in as it was (the ATX12V cable, etc.). All of the fans seem to start up including the one on the video card's NV Silencer, and I even see the lights on the fronts of the two drives start up.

I will double check again but I'm pretty sure everything is seated properly and there aren't any loose wires, etc. that weren't loose before.

I will try that with the CMOS battery. Could that be causing it?

I'm not getting video output. The fans come on, etc. but there's no video output, and the D-Bracket diagnostic indicates it is stuck on "Early Chipset Initiation" (I think someone mentioned that was essentially POST).

-Zadillo

 

[Zadillo]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
You didn't happen to leave your ATX12V cable unplugged or forget to plug the powerline into the 6800GT, by any chance?

I would also try unplugging the system, taking out the CMOS battery, clearing the CMOS with the jumper, then put the battery back and plug it in. Good luck!

K, I tried this (I cleared the CMOS with the jumper on the MSI MB), and then tried booting up with the non-essential stuff unplugged (the dvd and cd-rom drives, the second hd, the two 120mm fans)...... still doesn't start up, and the diagnostic light still gives the code for "Early Chipset Initiation".

I've doublechecked that everything is plugged in as it should be as well, and I'm not sure what else could be wrong.

Are there any other ideas?

-Zadillo

 

[Uncle Bob]

try booting the system w/o the video card installed and see if the diagnostic led sticks at the same place.

try a known good video card if possible

question: when replacing the heatsinks, did you clean off any old thermal gunk before fitting new heatsinks and did you observe anti-static procedures?

 

[Zadillo]

K, I can try removing the video card and see if that makes a different. I don't have any other bideo cards available.

When I replaced the heatsinks, I did clean off the old gunk per the instructions. I observed anti-static procedures (I used one of those anti-static wrist guard things that you put on your wrist and then clip to a piece of metal on the case).

If somehow something got shorted anyway, is there a way to check that?

I mean, if my system isn't booting up because a piece of hardware is failing, what would be the way to find that out? I know when I put the XP-90 on, it required a lot of pressure (but the various things I've read about the XP-90 say this is normal).

Any other ideas?

-Zadillo

 

[montag451]

early chipset initialization ====== could be RAM/psu/mobo.

Try different psu - may be the psu is blown

 

[Uncle Bob]

Is the power led on and is it flashing at 1 or 2 second intervals?
I note from the motherboard manual that this can indicate hardware problems;

I also notice that 'early chipset indication' immediately preceeds 'memory detection test' and is several post stages before it initialises video so it wouldn't do any harm to reseat your memory modules. If you have more than one stick of ram, try booting with just one installed. and if that don't work, try the other one.

when you mounted the heatsink, was the motherboard still installed in the case or did you remove it? If it was still in the case, mounted on the stand-offs, and it did require some force to install the XP90 then there is the possibilty that you've flexed the motherboard and broken a pcb trace in which case you will need a motherboard replacement.

hth

 

[daniel49]

try reseating memory then changing memory to different socket or different stick of memory if you have it

 

[Zadillo]

K. I removed the motherboard completely from the case before removing the stock AMD HSF and putting the XP-90 on (realistically I don't think it would have been possible to do it while it was still in the case).

I'll try the advice with the RAM, thanks.

Just to ask again, before I order a new PSU (something I figure I'm going to need no matter what), does anyone have any advice on any other PSU's worth considering besides the Enermax Whisper already recommended?

-Zadillo

 

[Zadillo]

Actually, the Power LED doesn't seem to be on at all, although that might just be because I might have put the Power LED connector from my case in the wrong way around.

 

[Zadillo]

OK. I tried taking out one of the RAM modules and turning it on with that, then taking it out and putting the other RAM module in slot 1. Both times it turned out the same........ stuck on "Early Chipset Initiation". I also did this with the video card completely removed from the system, and it's always the same error.

I've double checked the connections, and the motherboard power connectors are hooked up properly, and everything else seems to be hooked up like I had it before.

Any other ideas? I'm going to go ahead and try and decide on some PSU to order, so that will hopefully at least remove the PSU as the problem (is it possible that the PSU was somehow permanently fried when I tried to use it with everything hooked up? I'm wondering if that would explain why it still doesn't work even after unplugging various devices. Although if the PSU was fried, wouldn't the system not even come on at all, none of the fans powered, etc.).

If the problem is the motherboard or CPU, is there a surefire way to tell which? I'm guessing I must have done something at some point, but I'd like to at least know for sure before I go ahead and buy a new motherboard and/or CPU (I've been kind of thinking of upgrading to a socket 939 system anyway).

The Power LED still isn't coming on, but I'm not sure if that's something else. I'm pretty sure I have the Power LED light hooked up to the right place from my case to the motherboard. Would it matter if it was in the wrong way (like, if the side of the Power LED connector that said "Power LED" was facing up or done? It doesn't seem to matter which way I plug it in, but who knows).

If anyone else has any other advice, I'd appreciate it.

-Zadillo

 

[resStealth]

do a thourough check and make sure that every thing is plugged in, and post back

 

[Uncle Bob]

I would seriously doubt that your psu is to blame if the fans and hard discs spin up and you also get an indication that the motherboard is attempting to boot. Although, it is true that 350w is marginal for the amount and type of kit you have in your system.

The power led will only light if the connector is the right way round (+polarity) but there's only two ways it can go and plugging in the wrong way will not permanently damage anything.

I'm 99% sure that the problem is with your motherboard or CPU, the problem is which? The only way of knowing for sure is to replace one or the other with a preferably known working part. If I had to guess. I'd plump for the motherboard as stage 1 of post is CPU check and it would appear that this, at least, does pass. There's also the fact that the power led doesn't light, which again could indicate a motherboard fault. That's not to say either of these indicators is conclusive - OK?

One final thing, some boards will not post if they don't sense a CPU fan. There's a small chance that the fan you have attached to the XP90 is either not producing a pulse signal or that it's plugged into the wrong motherboard socket. You might want to reinstall the original heatsink/fan as a final test.

hth

 

[Zadillo]

Unfortunately I'm kind of stuck because I don't have any spare parts to test. I have this one MSI K8T Neo and the one Athlon 64 3200+.

Regarding the CPU fan (the Panaflo LB1X I have hooked up to the XP-90), it seems like it is starting up. I have it plugged into the CFAN plug on the motherboard.

I don't have anything plugged into the SFAN (System Fan) slot (I did have the Antec SmartCool 120mm fan plugged into the SFAN slot, but it didn't come on when the system started up so I plugged the Antec SmartCool fan into a connector from the PSU).

 

[Uncle Bob]

Yes, you've said that the Panaflow fan spins when you apply power but what I'm saying is that it might not be producing a pulse signal (even though it's rotating) that can be detected by the motherboard.

It's a pretty long shot but eliminating this as a potential cause of your problem is one of the few things you can do short of springing some cash for either a new motherboard or cpu.

You don't have anything to lose by putting the original heatsink/fan back on do you.

 

[Zadillo]

No, I can try and put the old HS and fan on.

If that is the problem, do you think it's as simple as that I'd need another panaflo fan? Is there a way I can test some of this without going through the trouble of removing the XP-90? Like, could I just take my old CPU fan and plug it in and see if that makes a difference?

 

[Uncle Bob]

Oh, I see - quick and dirty are we?

Yeah, plug the panaflow into the system fan socket and plug the old fan into the cpu fan socket, cross fingers and hope ....

 

[TechnoButt]

Sorry to hear about your problems, did you ever try another video card (preferably PCI or a semi-modern agp)? When I run into POST problems on a new system, I actually pull the board from the case entirely and set it up loose on a bench (with a static bag underneath if you're paranoid). Then I install a single stick of known good ram (or two if dual channel is required). I use a known good low power video card (in my case, it's a geforce2 mx, but it will soon be a PCI Matrox G450/550 or similar if I can find one). The only other thing I put on the board is the cpu with a stock HSF. Then I clear the CMOS (move the jumper for a few minutes to make sure it's fully discharged.. it will usually reset immediately, but wait a few minutes just to be sure). I plug the power supply into the board and board only. If you can get your power switch lead to reach the board, great.. but I usually power on by quickly shorting across the two posts where the power switch normally connects.

If the system won't post out of the case with known good video/memory/cpu/hsf (I say hsf, because of the chance that too much pressure is causing the cpu to not seat properly, etc), then my next guess would be to verify that the board came with support for the cpu directly from the manufacturer upon shipping. I can't tell you how common it is to get a mobo/cpu from different places only to find out the mobo will need a bios upgrade before accurately detect the cpu. If it doesn't detect correctly, usually the motherboard is supplying too much voltage (newer cpus tend to need less voltage than their older counterparts). If that's the case, then the cpu does not get enough voltage to POST.

So, yuck, good luck? If you could get your hands on the cheapest/most basic CPU that was designed for that board, you could find out if you needed a bios update (and could actually flash the cmos with the older cpu running).

EDIT: BTW, don't get an antec neopower from CompUSA. I just bought one a couple of weeks ago and watched my +12V1 rail droop to +10V several times as my motherboard powered off to protect itself from damage. I'm about to be done with ANTEC for awhile. I'm trying to convince myself to spend the $200+ it will take to get the PC Power&Cooling Turbo-Cool 510-SLI that I really want.

 

[Zadillo]

Heh........... it's mainly just that the thought of putting the XP-90 back in again after taking it out kind of gives me the willies (I'm still pretty new when it comes to do-it-yourself computer hardware, and this was the second really big computing project I took after putting my PC together in the first place).

I'll try that (plugging the panaflo into the SFAN slot and the old fan into the CFAN slot) and see what happens.