[PC Gamer] Your Nvidia card may not be giving full RGB over HDMI, test and fix

[DarkKnightDude]

Apparently the new GeForce 347.09 Beta driver fixes the issue. I guess the publicity of the bug made it one of their priorities.

 

[hawtdawg]

Consumers' ever declining standards/expectations are precisely why a bug like this persists for so long, and why all sorts of deficiencies - or outright defects - are accepted in modern displays (eg. abysmal uniformity in edge lit LCDs and so on).

It blows my mind that manufacturers have not figured out how to prevent backlight bleeding and uniformity issues this far into the life of LCD technology.

 

[Deders]

No seriously I don't see any of the boxes at all...

Get the new Beta drivers, that should resolve things.

http://www.nvidia.co.uk/content/Dri...t-international-beta.exe&lang=uk&type=GeForce

 

[AdamK47]

I remember having color space issues year ago when using HDMI on TVs without proper EDID. Never on a PC monitor. It was only on TVs without EDID.

 

[mikeymikec]

The 4 boxes are exceedingly distinct on a mainstream cheapo eIPS screen.

So much for "crappy LCD blacks, you won't notice a thing hurr."

Using an Iiyama TN screen here, I can see a difference between the boxes at a normal viewing angle.

 

[AdamK47]

I'm on my GT630, in Linux Mint 17.1, using the default OOTB free drivers. I can *barely* make out a difference between the top two squares and bottom two squares. Like, if I move my head up and down on my TN screen, I can kind of see a dividing line, but other than that, no.

When I was on my Winbook TW700 with Intel Bay Trail-T Atom IGP, I could *clearly* see all four squares, easily.

I'm going to boot into Windows 7 and check this thread.

Edit: Ok, in Win7 64-bit SP1 HP, and Waterfox 33.0.2, NV drivers 344.11. I see all four squares distinctly, like with the Intel IGP.
Note that I'm using an HDTV as a monitor, a 24" Westinghouse EWM24F1Y1. NV control panel under "Change Resolution", identifies the connector as "HDMI + HDTV".

Note that I had issues with this HDTV and HDMI audio a few months back when I got them, my GT430 card running the newest (at the time) WHQL drivers, would drop the HDMI audio sync if I turned the monitor off, or it went into monitor sleep mode. Ever since the beta drivers released around that time, it's been fixed.

The joys of using TN panels (or the lack thereof).

 

[Annisman*]

Get the new Beta drivers, that should resolve things.

http://www.nvidia.co.uk/content/Dri...t-international-beta.exe&lang=uk&type=GeForce

thanks

 

[positivedoppler]

The last 27" AOC monitor I bought last year only has HDMI input and have been running only 1080P for the past 2 years until I can get my hand on a rig that's 4k out the door without SLI or CF. I have one Intel laptop and one AMD and both seems to work fine.

So will this be a problem on a say 4k TV using HDMI? How does the video card know the difference between a TV vs a Monitor?

 

[hawtdawg]

The 4 boxes are exceedingly distinct on a mainstream cheapo eIPS screen.

So much for "crappy LCD blacks, you won't notice a thing hurr."

What? We're talking about the fact that the color "black" is this washed out grey color, not that you can't discern the difference. This HDMI bug just makes them more washed out, and our point was that "black" on an LCD can light a room as it is, and that people already have the expectation of washed out blacks from an LCD.

In fact, you more or less prove my point by not even realizing what I was initially talking about.

 

[exar333]

It's crazy NV hasn't fixed this bug yet. That said, I would not use HDMI for my 'primary' display anyway. It doesn't even do 60hz on a 4k monitor (HDMI doesn't even do 60hz on my non 4k display...), unless you have a brand-new HDMI 2.0 card (like 970/980). Even then, you will then be capped (again) at 60hz instead of 120hz with DP. HDMI work's OK for 1080P gaming though...

 

[Erenhardt]

^^ If you see four distinct squares, you are fine.

I knew the "faded" image out from my GTX 670 wasn't normal when my 7950 at the opposite rig was much more vibrant. I thought its probably the calibration of NV's drivers and didn't think much of it..

Huh. I saw this post in work (intel E2200 integrated gpu). Couldn't see a difference. Had to look closely to notice just a slightly lighter bottom part of dark side.
Now I'm home (Hd7870)and damn this is so difference is so obvious that blind person cold tell by the difference.

Could it be panel quality making the difference, or intel have (had) problems aswell?

Also, display contrast settings can make it barely noticeable.

 

[96Firebird]

Could it be panel quality making the difference, or intel have (had) problems aswell?

Panel quality definitely makes a difference. For me, at work, I have a Quadro card hooked up via DVI on a 27" TN screen. If the image is at the top of the screen, the difference is not noticeable. At the bottom of the screen, definitely noticeable. At home, on a 24" ISP screen and 970 hooked up via DVI, the difference is noticeable at all times.

 

[amenx]

It blows my mind that manufacturers have not figured out how to prevent backlight bleeding and uniformity issues this far into the life of LCD technology.

They have with OLED.

 

[SPBHM]

I can clearly see the difference using some old TN from 2005.

 

[JAG87]

This is just something that was done properly for the past, but turned into a bug once HDMI became popular on PC monitors.

All HDTVs are meant to be fed 16-235 RGB because of the Rec. 709 spec that all video is recorded in. And almost all HDTVs post-process the signal to expand the color space back to look like 0-255. If you send 0-255 to it, you will be crushing 32 shades of grey, unless your HDTV has a PC-input mode, that bypasses the video processor's color space expansion.

So there is nothing wrong with NVIDIA's implementation. But it should have been edited when HDMI became common on PC monitors. I can't be bothered to find which year that begun. And by the way, if you used a 1080p monitor over HDMI, suffered this bug and did not notice immediately, then you're clueless and should just get out of this thread and go buy a console.

 

[StinkyPinky]

^^ If you see four distinct squares, you are fine.

I knew the "faded" image out from my GTX 670 wasn't normal when my 7950 at the opposite rig was much more vibrant. I thought its probably the calibration of NV's drivers and didn't think much of it..

Intersting. On my 2011 mac here at work I can't really see a difference in the blacks (there is a very very subtle difference if I look)

Will look at this again when I get home (I use HDMI for my monitor)

 

[tidy]

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[tential]

It blows my mind that manufacturers have not figured out how to prevent backlight bleeding and uniformity issues this far into the life of LCD technology.

Because people don't care? Didn't we just post in a thread where a user was telling us how great LCD tech was, while the user had a budget LCD HDTV?

98% of users don't care, so that's why it'll only get fixed simply because we happen to move to a new tech that fixes it, not because people actually care/try to fix it.

 

[bystander36]

I'd also note that backlight bleed isn't noticeable in many situations, if not most. It is noticeable when your screen is near black, when gaming in a dark location primarily. At the desktop, when everything is fairly bright, you won't notice the bleed. Unless the games you are playing are in dark areas, you usually can't see bleed. I'd guess the most noticeable time is at bootup and on loading screens. It is easy to ignore.

 

[Annisman*]

yay I can see the 4 distinct boxes now. and I am using displayport....

 

[Haserath]

^^ If you see four distinct squares, you are fine.

I knew the "faded" image out from my GTX 670 wasn't normal when my 7950 at the opposite rig was much more vibrant. I thought its probably the calibration of NV's drivers and didn't think much of it..

If you're really good, you might also see the gray line between the black and white squares.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Better test image.

 

[StrangerGuy]

What? We're talking about the fact that the color "black" is this washed out grey color, not that you can't discern the difference. This HDMI bug just makes them more washed out, and our point was that "black" on an LCD can light a room as it is, and that people already have the expectation of washed out blacks from an LCD.

In fact, you more or less prove my point by not even realizing what I was initially talking about.

Just because LCDs have at least some backlight bleed means now black accuracy doesn't matter because it will never be completely black like OLED? I'm done talking to an idiot.

Infraction issued for personal attack.
-- stahlhart

 

[chanwbkenneth]

I just realise that the iPad can't display it properly as well. :/

 

[tidy]

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