PC game piracy examined
- Thread starter thilanliyan
- Start date
I didn't read it all but it seemed to be a good article.
As it hinted at, my worry is that developers will simply stop bringing games to the PC at all. There are few occassions where the PC exclusive, hell the PC version, does very well. It has been getting worse to develop for it and piracy certainly does not help.
MMOs are likely to stay, but I do not play them at all. Although the stack of games on my computer I'm currently playing like Crysis, COD4, and GTA 4 are available on console, for several reasons I play them on PC. I want that to continue, but I don't honestly see how devs would make the choice to continue.
I think that even if a PC game didn't sell all that well, if the devs didn't have indicators of such huge amounts of piracy, if they didn't have their tech support handling 50% of their support due to pirated copies, etc, I think they would still release their next games for the PC.
As it hinted at, my worry is that developers will simply stop bringing games to the PC at all. There are few occassions where the PC exclusive, hell the PC version, does very well. It has been getting worse to develop for it and piracy certainly does not help.
MMOs are likely to stay, but I do not play them at all. Although the stack of games on my computer I'm currently playing like Crysis, COD4, and GTA 4 are available on console, for several reasons I play them on PC. I want that to continue, but I don't honestly see how devs would make the choice to continue.
I think that even if a PC game didn't sell all that well, if the devs didn't have indicators of such huge amounts of piracy, if they didn't have their tech support handling 50% of their support due to pirated copies, etc, I think they would still release their next games for the PC.
Zenoth
Diamond Member
- Jan 29, 2005
- 5,202
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I agree with almost everything he says, and the very idea behind his article is certainly honorable, to open up people's eyes about the situation and think of it with solid evidence, facts and to not fall into the FUD and misinformation. There's one point however on which I disagree with him. But in the end, even if the intention behind creating that article is a good one it won't change the pirate's mentalities much, even if I myself wish that it would help do just that as well, but I know it won't. It's certainly not a futile article, but...
I agree, Zenoth.
One of the few good things out of the article to me is that the North America piracy rate is easily the lowest in the world. That's not exactly news to me but I hadn't really looked at stats of it before.
I just hope devs realize there are still a large number of non-casual PC gamers in some parts of the world who are very willing to buy good PC games. And these people usually enjoy all of the good things the PC has to offer like larger multiplayer games, a wider variety of games, and mods/customization.
One of the few good things out of the article to me is that the North America piracy rate is easily the lowest in the world. That's not exactly news to me but I hadn't really looked at stats of it before.
I just hope devs realize there are still a large number of non-casual PC gamers in some parts of the world who are very willing to buy good PC games. And these people usually enjoy all of the good things the PC has to offer like larger multiplayer games, a wider variety of games, and mods/customization.
I think the data in the article shows that the majority of piracy occurs because of economic reasons, people simply cant afford the games
secondly, hardware requirements..when a big game comes out on 360..it plays the same on every 360..when a big game comes out on PC..the experience can be much much worse for people with lower end pcs
the good companies develop with lower end systems in mind..but a lot of the flagship products such as crysis end up screwing over a lot of people and upsetting them..not only was that game not THAT great, at least by PC standards, but it ran like crap on most peoples machines for a very long time..(still does on a lot of systems) ..my main point is that the products that draw the most attention often are completely unplayable by a majority of PC users..of course there are exceptions such as WoW or the sims, but then again thats why those companies are so successful
secondly, hardware requirements..when a big game comes out on 360..it plays the same on every 360..when a big game comes out on PC..the experience can be much much worse for people with lower end pcs
the good companies develop with lower end systems in mind..but a lot of the flagship products such as crysis end up screwing over a lot of people and upsetting them..not only was that game not THAT great, at least by PC standards, but it ran like crap on most peoples machines for a very long time..(still does on a lot of systems) ..my main point is that the products that draw the most attention often are completely unplayable by a majority of PC users..of course there are exceptions such as WoW or the sims, but then again thats why those companies are so successful
PhatoseAlpha
Platinum Member
- Apr 10, 2005
- 2,131
- 21
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Economics as a relative factor for gaming concerns is pretty handily swatted by the relative piracy rates on PC versus consoles. The more expensive version is the one that sells better. Makes it real, real hard to believe 'can't afford' is actually a factor for games.
The worldwide numbers, while certainly interesting, include OS and productivity software. And as noted in the article, it's real, real hard to believe that someone who can't afford Crysis can afford a computer that can run crysis.
Excellent article all around. Accurate, and probably prophetic. It's too bad, really. The single player games on PC are what I enjoyed most, and there the ones going the way of the dodo.
The worldwide numbers, while certainly interesting, include OS and productivity software. And as noted in the article, it's real, real hard to believe that someone who can't afford Crysis can afford a computer that can run crysis.
Excellent article all around. Accurate, and probably prophetic. It's too bad, really. The single player games on PC are what I enjoyed most, and there the ones going the way of the dodo.
Lol of course he can't afford the game...he spent all his money on his rig to try to play Crysis (GTX280 tr-SLI...quad 4870, etc.)!!
This is a bad argument and just not true. Good PC games sell very well and earn a ton of profit.
That being the case, unless piracy rates reach 100% (which they never will), there will always be profit in AT LEAST porting games to the PC.
Making less profit is still making profit, and to stubbornly say "Oh yeah? I'd rather surrender millions in sales just to spite the pirates" is a foolish business model.
Edit: Also, what do you think would happen if every developer stopped producing games for the PC? The same pirates would start pirating on the console instead. It's almost as easy as pirating on the PC (often requiring a single hardware upgrade that is no more difficult than installing a bit torrent client and finding some torrent search sites). If someone doesn't want to pay for a game, producing that game exclusively on consoles won't stop them.
The main reason PC piracy rates are higher than on consoles is only because it's easier. Removing PCs from the equation would do almost nothing to overall piracy rates; the numbers would just switch from PCs to consoles and modchip sales will go through the roof.
I'm sorry, but the article is still fud. The guy misses the obvious conclusion that consoles sell more because console owners are prone to buying lots of shitty games whereas PC gamers buy a smaller number of good games. World of Warcraft is 4 years old and it still has millions of players. Can you name a single console game from 2004 that has a significant player base online? Maybe Halo 2, and that's a big maybe. What about Counter-Strike? That game is 8 years old. Show me a console game from 2000 that has anyone playing it. Diablo 2 and Starcraft are other examples of old PC games that still have a huge player base.
The life cycle of PC games is several times longer than the life cycle of console games, and that's why we don't buy as many PC games. I can gaurantee that Team Fortress 2 will still have a large player base for a few more years. What will COD4 on Xbox look like at that time? It will be completely dead. Yes the console version sells a lot of units, but the game is very quickly abandoned because the quality just isn't there. Devs look at it and scream "omg piracy is why they don't buy games!" while gamers are thinking more along the lines of "why would I buy Battlefield 123 when I'm still having fun with Left 4 Dead?"
Devs don't seem to understand that I only buy games when I'm bored. If I'm still having fun with World of Warcraft, why the hell do you expect me to buy Call of Duty 36 or whatever?
I completely agree that developers should focus on consoles (and multiplatform) since that's where all the money is, but don't hand me this bullshit and say piracy is why sales are down. The companies that actually know how to sell PC games follow a pretty standard model - they spread the games out a lot. See if you can answer this simple question: how many games has Blizzard made in the past 10 years? The answer is 4 full games (not including expansions), and they've all sold very well. Valve is taking the opposite approach of releasing a bunch of small/cheap games and episodes, and they too are selling very well. The only companies that are having a hard time are the ones releasing full size games that cost millions to make, and they are releasing these games every year. The idiots running those companies don't seem to understand what market saturation is, so they blame piracy.
eternalone
Golden Member
- Sep 10, 2008
- 1,500
- 2
- 81
Dosent matter which side of the fence your on, if in the future if they decide to stop making all the good games for PC, someone will find a way to port it to PC themselves. The pirates will simply come up with some type of emulator or whatever, very will written and it will be the newest fad in the piracy community and others will follow for different consoles. Piracy will always exist and it will always adapt.
Its definitely the best and most comprehensive article I've ever seen on the topic of PC Piracy. Also completely discredits many of the common misconceptions and disinformation spread about Piracy and DRM. It just goes to show you simply cannot trust people to do the right thing and that publishers and developers have every right to protect their investments and properties.
My main concern about PC gaming is that its already taken a back seat compared to the consoles. At this point I'm just glad developers bother to port games from consoles to the PC in a timely manner but I could easily see this changing in the not too distant future.
I personally do not think the Practical Solutions portion is going to help at all. I think even more invasive/perpetual DRM is going to be required and that single player games are going to more closely follow the MMO model.
Anti-DRM people need to realize that DRM is not the problem, Pirates are and in order to ensure the ongoing viability of PC gaming, DRM is necessary. You simply cannot trust people to do the right thing and in such cases, security is needed.
My main concern about PC gaming is that its already taken a back seat compared to the consoles. At this point I'm just glad developers bother to port games from consoles to the PC in a timely manner but I could easily see this changing in the not too distant future.
I personally do not think the Practical Solutions portion is going to help at all. I think even more invasive/perpetual DRM is going to be required and that single player games are going to more closely follow the MMO model.
- 1. Online activation - clearly stated # of activations in a set time period
2. Online validation per instance - online key-uniqueness check.
3. Episodal content - you pay for more content
4. Monthly rental model - $10-15 per month
5. Pay-to-play - $25 flat fee, maybe .25 per playy session afterwards
6. Credit card, subscription or game card required
7. Complete library subscriptions for some publishers
8. Rental/Digital streaming - Similar to Netflix or GameFly, limited titles at once
Anti-DRM people need to realize that DRM is not the problem, Pirates are and in order to ensure the ongoing viability of PC gaming, DRM is necessary. You simply cannot trust people to do the right thing and in such cases, security is needed.
Imaginer
Diamond Member
- Oct 15, 1999
- 8,076
- 1
- 0
I like his analogy with physical locks and prevention of casual means of theft and unwanted distribution. If someone really wants to steal, you can't prevent it altogether. This article is a good read as to the mechanics behind this hot topic amongst gamers, PC and consolists alike.
However, what should be done from here is a way to make PC gaming as widely acceptable and easy as console gaming for it to take off again. The article has a point about the marketability and acceptability of consoles amongst the piracy point. I am talking about the realization that PCs can do ANYTHING consoles can do in terms of making them a part of your living room, making a solid basis of hardware configurations to program for and any increment of hardware improvement is akin to what console gamers experience every 5 years in terms of graphical updates, ease of installation and use but without making it easy to have unauthorized copies, and marketing the PC platform as a whole a great platform to enjoy games with.
New peripherals for gaming experiences? It can be very easy to come up with a hardware solution and in turn would also act as a means to deter piracy as well. Something one has not thought about at all.
However, what should be done from here is a way to make PC gaming as widely acceptable and easy as console gaming for it to take off again. The article has a point about the marketability and acceptability of consoles amongst the piracy point. I am talking about the realization that PCs can do ANYTHING consoles can do in terms of making them a part of your living room, making a solid basis of hardware configurations to program for and any increment of hardware improvement is akin to what console gamers experience every 5 years in terms of graphical updates, ease of installation and use but without making it easy to have unauthorized copies, and marketing the PC platform as a whole a great platform to enjoy games with.
New peripherals for gaming experiences? It can be very easy to come up with a hardware solution and in turn would also act as a means to deter piracy as well. Something one has not thought about at all.
Imaginer
Diamond Member
- Oct 15, 1999
- 8,076
- 1
- 0
DRM shouldn't go away altogether and I dont see it ever going away now. However, making it where it isn't invasive or more trouble than what it is worth is where DRM should go from now on. The example of how difficult it is to copy Fairy Tales Adventures is a good example of flawed copy protection. The example of the star chart through a glass is another good one (hence I brought up unique interactive peripherals as a possiblility).
The same token, the PC platform needs to be marketed more and the stigma behind expensive, power hungry PCs to game well should be dispelled as being the only way to PC game. PC gaming really should be marketed not in terms of graphic card model numbers or GHz or at different cycles but possibly in terms of how transportation vehicles are done, by timelines (ala years...).
Because in the end, that is what really differentiates generations and power, performances of games - their respective eras they came in. Basically if one buys a machine marketed as 2008, they can expect to play anything up to 2010 or prior to without worries about hardware (unless you are the hardcore and tweak things) and it is an absolute. Much like 360 and PS3 gamers have. There aren't any ambiguities. Problem is, the PC platform is very open and to come in agreeance to a set standard would be tough as everyone and their egos has something to say about it. Yes I know that Direct X version numbering tried to do this... but have you seen it marketed the way you do for consoles?
The same token, the PC platform needs to be marketed more and the stigma behind expensive, power hungry PCs to game well should be dispelled as being the only way to PC game. PC gaming really should be marketed not in terms of graphic card model numbers or GHz or at different cycles but possibly in terms of how transportation vehicles are done, by timelines (ala years...).
Because in the end, that is what really differentiates generations and power, performances of games - their respective eras they came in. Basically if one buys a machine marketed as 2008, they can expect to play anything up to 2010 or prior to without worries about hardware (unless you are the hardcore and tweak things) and it is an absolute. Much like 360 and PS3 gamers have. There aren't any ambiguities. Problem is, the PC platform is very open and to come in agreeance to a set standard would be tough as everyone and their egos has something to say about it. Yes I know that Direct X version numbering tried to do this... but have you seen it marketed the way you do for consoles?
/yawn
that's why the title with NO DRM released a few days ago had 24,000 downloads running on Day 1.
Like I said, more invasive methods of DRM are needed. MMOs are a prime example. Tie gameplay to a credit card and what do you know, piracy rates go down.....
MMO games have enormous piracy. World of Warcraft has several private servers with over 100,000 players on each of them.
Also, I don't know why you think no-DRM titles have more piracy. Do a torrent search for "sins solar empire". Sins of a Solar Empire has no DRM at all but right now I only see 133 seeds, 121 peers. Spore has absolutely crippling DRM, but it has 5400 seeds, 6900 peers (looking at the same website as before, which I will not link to).
Don't say it's because Spore is a better game. Metacritic has lots of bad ratings for this game, so it's almost like people download it just to be assholes. Games like Sins of a Solar Empire don't make a bunch of noise about DRM, so it has a much smaller group of people downloading it just because they can.
No they don't. Private servers are a fraction of the paying population and are nothing compared to some of the piracy rates quoted in that article. Its amazing that the scum of the gaming community in MMOs actually rank higher than people who pirate PC games. At least gold sellers actually pay for their games!
No, I think the answer is quite obvious, the more popular game that appeals to a wider audience is going to be more widely pirated. Spore's piracy figures was proportionate to its sales, as was Sins, which sold far fewer copies. The Stardock Dev covered all of this in an interview, he just chose to ignore the pirated copies as non-sales and their approach was to "ignore China". You'll see however Sins was pirated equally to number of sales, ~400k for each.
My point was the same that I've made for years, people don't need an excuse like DRM to steal, its just a convenient scapegoat.
Maximilian
Lifer
- Feb 8, 2004
- 12,604
- 15
- 81
I didn't read the article, but has any conclusive research been done on this subject? Do we know for sure how many times a game would be sold, it if couldn't be pirated? Are we sure that figure is higher then when it can be pirated? Are all pirates lost sales, or could it be if those people wouldn't pirate it, wouldn't buy it either?
I know plenty of people who pirate games, even people with hacked xbox 360's. Some of those 360's recently got banned, so no more Live for them. They all bought a new 360, and 2-3 games they loved. All the other games they USED to have, they did not buy, because those games weren't worth $60 to them. People im talking about are students etc, and have limited funds.
I wonder how the sales would be if prices DECREASED, would sales go up, and would it even out, or would sales still be the same, and would revenue thus go down for publishers/developers?
Yes you've figured me out!!! Please tell me how its a bad idea though. If you're already buying your games, you've already paid for them and most likely used a credit card to do so. More stringent security measures to ensure only paying customers have access to content wouldn't impact you at all; in the long run it would be in your best interests.
Well then you should probably read it before commenting. Not trying to be short here, just saying it does go into extensive detail in discrediting basically every excuse under the sun that justifies piracy, including the ones you just brought up.
It would have had the same level of piracy if it had DRM. DRM has failed over and over again to stop piracy, or even to slow it down. It doesn't affect pirates at all, but it does annoy many paying customers. Look at Rainbow Six: Vegas 2, the DRM was such an annoyance to buyers of the game, Ubisoft put a pirate's crack on their site to fix the DRM problems until the publicity made them pull it. Stardock has proven that you should do what your paying customers want, and not waste your resources annoying customers with DRM that doesn't affect pirates. You see the same thing with digital music now also. Almost everyone is offering DRM-free music downloads now.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
lupi
Lifer
- Apr 8, 2001
- 32,539
- 260
- 126
Someone call for the cluebuss, it has a passenger waiting.
MMO has nothing to do with play being tied to a CC, it has to do with the fact you are playing on their server and they control whom has access to those.
Not to mention the entire NA having the lowest percentage of pirate users, which just proves the entire economics of piracy that most of us have stated before; something that DRMS won't have any meaningful effect on and just further alienates the paying portion of their customer base.
It would have at least the same level yes, which emphasizes the point, as quoted in the article: "The evidence is overwhelmingly clear: DRM does not cause piracy, piracy results in DRM."
Also I'm not advocating doing the same thing over and over again, I'm advocating increasing and changing DRM so that its more effective and in many cases, less intrusive. Not only would it make it more difficult to pirate games, it'd eliminate many of the current complaints with DRM schemes.
Is the cluebuss (sic) where you learned to rephrase sentences? By linking your account to a credit card they control access to their content, which provably reduces piracy.
I'm not sure what NA's piracy rate being lower than the rest of the world shows other than relative economic and moral conditions, but the fact remains the lower rate is still exponentially higher than the piracy rate of consoles or online PC games and MMOs.
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