PC Build to play World of Warcraft Mists of Pandaria on Ultra!

[br0k3n]

Hi forum members. Matt here, first time forum poster. I am looking to begin a PC build that can play World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria (and soon Warlords of Draenor) on Ultra settings, preferably on a resolution of 1920x1080 or 2560x1600(I think). I know this seems like an easy task but I've done a little bit of research and have found many people say this game is Processor/CPU-bound, not necessarily graphics/GPU-bound. Is this accurate?

Some requirements I'd like to also see with this build:

1.) quiet, I'd prefer not to hear the case/radiator fans from 1-2m away.

2.) I'd like to build a small form factor, micro-itx preferably, micro-atx next.

3.) Water-cool, closed loop solution for the CPU.

4.) intel processor - here's the dilemma, do we go with older technology with more cores, more L3/L4 cache, or newer like Haswell?

5.) What level graphics card? I suspect something in the 660/670 Nvida range or above should suffice, but you all know more than I.

6.) I'd like to get into raiding again, so if the computer can support Ultra in a 25-man, with 40-60+fps, that'd be nice.

7.) <=$2000 limit. I'm sure this can happen.

8.) not required, but I sure would not mind the motherboard/cpu being able to support dual-booting into the MacOSX for iOS backup purposes.

I know my main HD will be a ~250GB or larger SSD, and the next a 1TB "storage drive". But the biggest question is what architecture should I build this machine around? Ivy, Haswell, Sandy, Sandy-E? etc..

Looking for your feedback and input. :thumbsup:

 

[Essence_of_War]

http://www.logicalincrements.com/games/wow/

Mfenn's weekly midrange build:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2192841
should be able to max out WoW at 2560x1600 for right around $1k, leaving you plenty of money for a nice monitor. If you want a quieter case too, I'd swap the NZXT case in his build for a Fractal Design Define R4.

I sort of think 2560x1600 monitors are too expensive compared with 2560x1440, though. You can get a nice Dell/HP/Asus 2560x1440 for ~$5-600, and a more stripped down (but still excellent panel) yamasaki for around $400. The 2560x1600 panels are usually right around $1k. Do you already have a monitor, or are you looking for a monitor also?

4.) intel processor - here's the dilemma, do we go with older technology with more cores, more L3/L4 cache, or newer like Haswell?

WoW really wants single-thread performance, and I'm pretty sure it only uses two cores anyway, so I'd just stick with Haswell, and specifically an overclockable Haswell i5.

 

[Freddy1765]

I haven't played WoW in like 6 months, but the rig in my sig would drop to a pretty low framerate in MoP LFR when 25 people were going nuts with spells and all that.
Had the install on an SSD, and I specifically remember GPU load was well below 100%, which leads me to believe my 2500k couldn't keep up, even when OC'd.
AFAIK, that game only utilises two cores, which is pretty lame.

 

[br0k3n]

Do you already have a monitor, or are you looking for a monitor also?


WoW really wants single-thread performance, and I'm pretty sure it only uses two cores anyway, so I'd just stick with Haswell, and specifically an overclockable Haswell i5.

1.) I do have an older Samsung 226B (I think) 22" monitor. 1650x1080? I don't recall the resolution. Now that you've brought it to my attention, I'd need to get a new monitor.

2.) I've read on Tom's Hardware that they really like the older i5-3750p and mention on the next page that the Sandy Bridge-E would be great for WoW performance because of the cores.

 

[Kristijonas]

Why not buy a used computer if running WOW on ultra is all that is required? Think of the environment!

 

[br0k3n]

Why not buy a used computer if running WOW on ultra is all that is required? Think of the environment!

Couple of things:
1.) Why didn't you include a link to some used computer business if you're trying to feed me a spoonful of "think of the environment"?

2.) The parts exist already, they don't need to be forged by some printer, press, stamp, etc. from raw material. If the parts are being used instead of being destroyed, aren't I doing the world a good thing?

 

[SammichPG]

I haven't played WoW in like 6 months, but the rig in my sig would drop to a pretty low framerate in MoP LFR when 25 people were going nuts with spells and all that.
Had the install on an SSD, and I specifically remember GPU load was well below 100%, which leads me to believe my 2500k couldn't keep up, even when OC'd.
AFAIK, that game only utilises two cores, which is pretty lame.

wow has an ancient engine which is poorly threaded and addons (dps meters, boss mods are the main causes) often are badly coded and slow down your pc even further.

That game engine has so much bloat and stuff added over the years that it's amazing to think how "well" it runs, remember that it was released in 2004 and most changes have been on the content side (models with more polygons and higher res textures) with few graphic goodies (sunshafts, dynamic shadows and dx11 water) that have an horrid performance impact.

Last time I played (cataclysm) ultra shadows impacted heavily even sandy bridge i7 with high end gpus for no added visible image quality, basically the game engine rendered shadows even on objects that weren't visible if I remember correctly. Use the step before ultra for the shadows.

You'd hope that blizzard would make a better job for SC2 but they keep on reusing their outdated tech in new games and we have software that doesn't scale on quads in the slightest.

Their games quality is in a downward spiral imo.

 

[mfenn]

1.) I do have an older Samsung 226B (I think) 22" monitor. 1650x1080? I don't recall the resolution. Now that you've brought it to my attention, I'd need to get a new monitor.

2.) I've read on Tom's Hardware that they really like the older i5-3750p and mention on the next page that the Sandy Bridge-E would be great for WoW performance because of the cores.

WoW doesn't really care about CPU cores, there's barely any scaling with core count. As for the i5-3550P recommendation, you have to take everything in context. Sure, the 3550P is a great value if you're on a budget, but you can certainly afford a Haswell with $2K to play with.

Regarding monitor, it's not clear to me if you need to buy one or not. What about OS?

 

[Essence_of_War]

Yeah, Ivy Bridge "P" series are great if you need to save $30-50 on CPU+MoBo in order to step your GPU up a level without worrying too much about CPU bottlenecking.

Your budget is $2k. You can easily afford an unlocked haswell i5, so the ivyP chips are sort of a solution in search of a problem for you

Edit:

1) What's your monitor budget, and what (if any) specs do you need for it? (Resolution, refresh rate, etc)
2) I see what Tom's is trying to say...sort of...WoW is an example of game that can be CPU bound since it only really uses 2 cores, but clock-for-clock haswell is faster than Ivy-E, and both have almost the same base clocks! Ivy-E might OC a bit better because of the better TIM, but this is likely to vary a bit by chip, and even if you do get marginally better single-thread performance out of OC'd Ivy-E, it seems like highly inefficient way to build a rig to play WoW unless you also need a ton of PCI lanes.

 

[br0k3n]

You'd hope that blizzard would make a better job for SC2 but they keep on reusing their outdated tech in new games and we have software that doesn't scale on quads in the slightest.

Their games quality is in a downward spiral imo.

Couldn't agree more. Although I've spent countless hours, WoW to me allows me to decompress and shut the brain off. I actually enjoy seeing new stuff. What really upset me is how horrible Diablo 3 was. Decent looking game, but story and the quickness of it was not too appealing.

I honestly wouldn't mind playing a different game, maybe a new MMO or trying a first-person shooter again. Recommendations?

 

[br0k3n]

Regarding monitor, it's not clear to me if you need to buy one or not. What about OS?

mfenn, thanks for reaching out. I do have a 22" Samsung monitor now, but if it could be worked into the budget, I would not mind something with a higher resolution. Like it was mentioned above, those 2560x1600 and the 2560x1440 monitors are PRICEY! I wouldn't mind a reliable, great color, in-between option.

The OS I'm used to using is Win7, but I've seen a few opinions that Win8.1 is a little faster, better performing. I would not be opposed to trying that.

 

[br0k3n]

So the Ivy-P chips cannot be overclocked it sounds like? I might "build"/price two comparable systems, One running the i5-3350p and one running the i5-4670k.

As for RAM, I see most people suggest 8GB; no need for 16GB yet I assume? I don't plan on creating movies or anything extreme like that.

 

[Essence_of_War]

So the Ivy-P chips cannot be overclocked it sounds like? I might "build"/price two comparable systems, One running the i5-3350p and one running the i5-4670k.

As for RAM, I see most people suggest 8GB; no need for 16GB yet I assume? I don't plan on creating movies or anything extreme like that.

Ivy-P series CAN be OC'd using the BCLK...but that is really not recommended. Especially when chips with unlocked multipliers are well within your price range.

8 GB of RAM is great for gaming.

Like it was mentioned above, those 2560x1600 and the 2560x1440 monitors are PRICEY! I wouldn't mind a reliable, great color, in-between option.

As far as monitors go, 1920x1200/1920x1080 are excellent resolutions for a single gpu set-up. IPS panels generally give fantastic colors, but they don't typically refresh faster than 60Hz. Higher refresh rates (if your GPU can push frames faster!) can make your games look silky smooth.

I'd look at these:
Dell u2312hm (23'' 1920x1080 IPS panel, very low input lag)
Dell u2412m (24'' 1920x1200 IPS panel)
Asus VG248QE (24'' 1920x1080, 144Hz refresh!)

I'm partial to the u2412m myself (I really like 16:10 aspect ratio!), but I think any of those three would be good picks.

 

[br0k3n]

As far as monitors go, 1920x1200/1920x1080 are excellent resolutions for a single gpu set-up. IPS panels generally give fantastic colors, but they don't typically refresh faster than 60Hz. Higher refresh rates (if your GPU can push frames faster!) can make your games look silky smooth.

I'd look at these:
Dell u2312hm (23'' 1920x1080 IPS panel, very low input lag)
Dell u2412m (24'' 1920x1200 IPS panel)
Asus VG248QE (24'' 1920x1080, 144Hz refresh!)

I'm partial to the u2412m myself (I really like 16:10 aspect ratio!), but I think any of those three would be good picks.

Thank you so much for this. This is information I definitely needed. Another thread I found mentioned that u2412 and that the extra 120 pixels was a super nice benefit for documents.

 

[br0k3n]

What advantage does a MicroATX board have over a Mini-ITX?

 

[br0k3n]

Also, if I'm going with 8GB, how do I know what memory/speed I want? CAS Latency, Voltage, etc. This seems it could be in a thread of it's own.

I have a basic understanding of the different DDR3. I.e. 1333 / 1600 / 1866 , etc. The fast the memory operates.

The CAS latency is new to me; I assume this could be dependent on which MB I select as to what is compatible?

 

[Essence_of_War]

What advantage does a MicroATX board have over a Mini-ITX?

Bigger

MicroATX has more motherboard selection and is usually cheaper than mini itx. It should have more RAM slots, expansion slots, and SATA ports as well. It will also allow you to have a slightly larger case which will probably be easier to build in, and have better airflow and thermals since the components won't be as cramped.

Mini ITX can be cramped. Depending on your case, you'll need to check if it supports full ATX power supplies, if it supports long, high-end GPUs, and if it has enough clearance for whatever CPU HSF you'd like to use.

Also, if I'm going with 8GB, how do I know what memory/speed I want? CAS Latency, Voltage, etc. This seems it could be in a thread of it's own.

For haswell, DDR3-1600 or 1866 is fine, voltage should be 1.5V or lower, CAS latencies aren't super important but lower is better, and 9-9-9-24 is good. Memory frequencies and timings are most important if you're gaming on the integrated GPU.

If you don't mind the silly looking heat spreader, this will work nicely:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231428

 

[br0k3n]

For haswell, DDR3-1600 or 1866 is fine, voltage should be 1.5V or lower, CAS latencies aren't super important but lower is better, and 9-9-9-24 is good. Memory frequencies and timings are most important if you're gaming on the integrated GPU.

If you don't mind the silly looking heat spreader, this will work nicely:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231428

BEAUTIFUL! Someone else had recommended the GSkill and gave me similar information; 9 CAS, 1.5v, DDR3-1600. I had come across the same memory kit and wondered if it will work. The heat spreaders are silly looking, but they won't be seen inside the case so..

Thank you for the help!

 

[Essence_of_War]

Keep in mind that low-profile HSFs, which are usually good matches for mini ITX cases, might not have enough clearance for RAM with large heat spreaders. If you want to go mini ITX you'll need to check this carefully.

 

[mfenn]

Working off the assumptions that the budget is ~$2K, smaller is better, and that a monitor and OS are needed, here's what I would recommend:

i5 4670K $240
GA-Z87N-WIFI $125 - Gigabyte boards have historically had the best OS X compatibility
Corsair DDR3 1600 16GB $140
ASUS GTX 770 $350 AR
Crucial M500 240GB $150
Seagate 7200RPM 2TB $85 AP
Samsung Slim DVD Burner $25
SG07B w/ 600W Silverstone PSU $165 AR
Corsair H55 $58
Yamakasi 27" 1440p $440 - this version has a no dead pixel guarantee
Windows 8.1 Full $120 - Windows 8 is worth it just for the low price on the full license. It can be made to work pretty much like Windows 7 with ClassicShell
Total: $1898 AR AP

This is more of an all-around 1440p mini-ITX gaming machine. For just WoW, you can take the GPU down to a GTX 760.

 

[norseamd]

Also, if I'm going with 8GB, how do I know what memory/speed I want? CAS Latency, Voltage, etc. This seems it could be in a thread of it's own.

I have a basic understanding of the different DDR3. I.e. 1333 / 1600 / 1866 , etc. The fast the memory operates.

The CAS latency is new to me; I assume this could be dependent on which MB I select as to what is compatible?

there are different opinions as to the value of speed and latency. the fastest most intel processors can support is 1600 so i would just go with that with reasonably low timings. you probably do not need the lowest if it requires too much more money. apus and maybe integrated graphics seem to require fast memory though.

the processor is what detirmines how fast of memory you can run unless you are overclocking then both the motherboard and the ram sticks detirmine how much farther you can go than that i think.

 

[Headfoot]

I don't know why we're still talking about that 3350p. Don't get that. No reason to at all. The only question is whether you are going to get a 4670k or a 4770k.

Tightening your memory timings and increasing your memory speed won't get you more than 5% increase in actual FPS. It's not even worth worrying about with an unlocked multiplier processor. Just get whatever is reasonably cheap and high enough capacity 1600/1866. In terms of real in-game FPS performance, every dollar spent on faster RAM past DDR3-1600 @cas9/10 could be better spent on more graphics or better cooling on the CPU for a higher overclock.

You will notice buying a nice monitor, a nice graphics card, a nice SSD and a nice CPU. You will not notice buying faster RAM. It is wise to spend your money accordingly unless you really value that peace of mind you get for 6 months from owning the best of the best temporarily...

 

[br0k3n]

I don't know why we're still talking about that 3350p. Don't get that. No reason to at all. The only question is whether you are going to get a 4670k or a 4770k.

I guess the real big concern after learning more about the different motherboards is whether I want to overclock or not. Provided the enclosure has enough airflow to keep the cpu cool, I don't see it as a drawback not to. But the 3350P WOULD be cheaper, but I can see the 4670K being the better long-term investment.

You will notice buying a nice monitor, a nice graphics card, a nice SSD and a nice CPU. You will not notice buying faster RAM. It is wise to spend your money accordingly unless you really value that peace of mind you get for 6 months from owning the best of the best temporarily...

^agreed.

Now I just need to figure out a good CPU cooler; wanted to do a waterblock like the Corsair, but after hearing how loud it is and there are comparable temperatures (and quieter) from an standard Fan/heatsink, I may go that route.

 

[br0k3n]

Working off the assumptions that the budget is ~$2K, smaller is better, and that a monitor and OS are needed, here's what I would recommend:

i5 4670K $240
GA-Z87N-WIFI $125 - Gigabyte boards have historically had the best OS X compatibility
Corsair DDR3 1600 16GB $140
ASUS GTX 770 $350 AR
Crucial M500 240GB $150
Seagate 7200RPM 2TB $85 AP
Samsung Slim DVD Burner $25
SG07B w/ 600W Silverstone PSU $165 AR
Yamakasi 27" 1440p $440 - this version has a no dead pixel guarantee
Windows 8.1 Full $120 - Windows 8 is worth it just for the low price on the full license. It can be made to work pretty much like Windows 7 with ClassicShell
Total: $1840 AR AP

This is more of an all-around 1440p mini-ITX gaming machine. For just WoW, you can take the GPU down to a GTX 760.

Killer recommendation, I've looked at that SG07 before, then started looking more towards the new BitFenix and now the EVGA Hadron (though that bad boy is expensive).

Thanks again Mfenn

 

[Essence_of_War]

Now I just need to figure out a good CPU cooler;

Tom's Hardware has very nice things to say about the Zalman CNPS8900 Quiet

You can currently get it from Newegg for $34, and it is notably cooler and quieter than intel's stock cooler. Although for a mild OC, stock might be fine also.