PBS: 180 Days A Year Inside an American High School

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spittledip

Diamond Member
Apr 23, 2005
4,480
1
81
The effort it takes to get good grades to get some job that is outside of one's current perspective is much harder than to rely on the safety net that one sees every day.

These kids see very little of the world- their scope is very small, and the hope to reach something that does not really seem available is almost silly.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
While I was being sarcastic, if you actually suggested this, you indeed would be called a racist. Which is why it's never suggested.

Chuck

and that is a big reason nothing will get done. no politician wan'ts to be called a racist.

hell it gets thrown around to much as it is for silly shit.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,092
136
/this

what makes people think they will care about missing graduation? there needs to be a shift in Culture before anything can be really done.

so my issue shifts to those kids that want to learn.

And what breeds this type of "culture?" Ignorance. How do we improve? Education. It all boils down to education. The "culture" will not shift until it becomes more educated - which is why we can't just let education continue to fall because "kids aren't into it."
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,986
1,388
126
and that is a big reason nothing will get done. no politician wan'ts to be called a racist.

hell it gets thrown around to much as it is for silly shit.

Racist!!!! :p

<disclaimer - I was just pulling waggy's legs aka kidding around , some of ya'll don't run to the mods and be a lowlife snitch now as certain poster(s), you hear?>

To waggy, can't agree with you enough, especially the 2nd sentence from certain posters when they could not handle or debate the truth/facts.
 
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waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
And what breeds this type of "culture?" Ignorance. How do we improve? Education. It all boils down to education. The "culture" will not shift until it becomes more educated - which is why we can't just let education continue to fall because "kids aren't into it."

no.

Ignorance is a byproduct of the culture.

Far to many see a education as worthless, or those that study and work hard in school as nerds and it being something bad. They would rather live in the now then in 20 years in the future.

I have family KY and my sister-in-law and her parents moved there when she was 14. She told us how many kids in her class never talked about college or graduation. It was getting knocked up and getting "the money". school? pft it was something they had to do. not something they wanted or cared about.

I looked at moving down there. I love the land itself. its pretty and cheap. I was amazed while visiting them the amount of single mothers and most were young.
 

SheHateMe

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2012
7,251
20
81
They should teach maturity in school, too. Stop carrying around e-grudges and making yourself look like a child on this forum. I'm talking to YOU, Svnla. Everyone knows who you're talking to. Stop acting like speaking indirectly is going to go unnoticed. Grow up already and let it go. Seriously. Don't bother responding, I'll let you talk to yourself. I already know you won't let it go.

Participate in the discussion at hand. We are all adults here. Act like it.

no.

Ignorance is a byproduct of the culture.

Yes. Sending you a box of e-cookies right now.


Ignorance can be "fixed". That's why I asked you earlier why you felt it was a good thing to leave people to their own devices when they are young and ignorant. Sure, you can let somebody fail just so they can see how hard the ground is...but when you purposefully let failing students fail without trying to help first...we are doing our own society a disservice.

I just find it troubling that people are willing to "let" people become losers, but then come to a place like AT to complain in P&N about how these same people who had issues as children are now hogging all the welfare and using Obamaphones.

If you have a chance...right now, to help a child in your community with school. Do it!, even if you think its trivial. Some kids just need companionship because they don't get that at home. People are more motivated and inspired when they have support from their peers.

Even though 99.9% of the people on this site are assholes (more like 9.9% :biggrin:), I am still inspired and motivated by some of you.
 
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Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,986
1,388
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Schools should teach some of you, especially YOU, shehateme, NOT to lie, fault accusation, put words into people mouth, be a lowlife snitch, and talk big and all the bullsh1t but have NOTHING....nnooothing to back them up.

<---- is still waiting for the racist and vile PMs to be post in public by shehateme...<trying hard not to hold my breath> :D I am looking at you, shehateme. What is the matter, sweet cake?

"Can't stand the heat, get the freak out of the kitchen" and "Can't run with the big dogs, lay down on the porch with your own kind" - old proverbs (well, close enough). Don't like what I post? Quick, run to the mods and be your true self, a lowlife snitch that you were so proud of.

You did all that sh1t to me, did not bother to apologize and admit your wrongdoings and now you want to talk about grow up? Are you that stupid? Now you know why I said you are a ghetto moron? You did that all by yourself, by your lies and pathetic big empty talk.

You shehateme need to take your own advice to grow the fuck up. You did all that sh1t and NOW you have the nerve to say "we are all adults"? GFY, seriously.

I am still wondering how would you pay for the bet when you are a broke ass student that could not cut it in college level math class and paying for college with financial aid. Now you know why I keep saying you need to go hang out with your kind? Because I do not hang out with liars and big empty talkers with nothing to back their words.

Edit: For those that want to know the background story of the saga, read this = http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=34771062&postcount=278 and the posts after post #278. Another poster requested the PMs from me and this moron made up the whole horrible thing which I never said. Well, you guys/gals can read the rest and see for yourself who was telling the truth and who was lying.

I will restate post #64 again. No one can help you if you do not want to help/improve yourself first. Keep shooting yourself in the foot with repeating mistakes after mistakes is not the way to go.
 
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waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
They should teach maturity in school, too. Stop carrying around e-grudges and making yourself look like a child on this forum. I'm talking to YOU, Svnla. Everyone knows who you're talking to. Stop acting like speaking indirectly is going to go unnoticed. Grow up already and let it go. Seriously. Don't bother responding, I'll let you talk to yourself. I already know you won't let it go.

Participate in the discussion at hand. We are all adults here. Act like it.



Yes. Sending you a box of e-cookies right now.


Ignorance can be "fixed". That's why I asked you earlier why you felt it was a good thing to leave people to their own devices when they are young and ignorant. Sure, you can let somebody fail just so they can see how hard the ground is...but when you purposefully let failing students fail without trying to help first...we are doing our own society a disservice.

I just find it troubling that people are willing to "let" people become losers, but then come to a place like AT to complain in P&N about how these same people who had issues as children are now hogging all the welfare and using Obamaphones.

If you have a chance...right now, to help a child in your community with school. Do it!, even if you think its trivial. Some kids just need companionship because they don't get that at home. People are more motivated and inspired when they have support from their peers.

Even though 99.9% of the people on this site are assholes (more like 9.9% :biggrin:), I am still inspired and motivated by some of you.

It's not so much as letting them fail its not letting them drag those that WANT to learn and are willing to work.

The problem is you can't change culture until they WANT to change or they HAVE to change. right now there is no reason. people are happy with what they have.
 

SheHateMe

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2012
7,251
20
81
It's not so much as letting them fail its not letting them drag those that WANT to learn and are willing to work.

The problem is you can't change culture until they WANT to change or they HAVE to change. right now there is no reason. people are happy with what they have.

And if people don't want to change, at what point do we determine that they HAVE to change?

This is a societal problem. I'd agree with you if America wasn't at the end of every list when it comes to countries and education.

This isn't a black problem, a white problem, a Latino problem, or an Asian problem. This is an issue with learning across the board. A child that struggles in school with no help is probably more likely to stop caring, drop out, and adopt questionable lifestyles.

These are OUR kids going through these schools and when we all get old and spend our time posting on AT...who is going to do the work?

We don't have enough talent here in the US, companies continue to outsource for positions they can't fill. At the same time, test scores per school are getting worse. We praise kids that can test above average in reading but we call the kid that can't test average stupid...we tell that kid he should work at McDonald's....and then later, when that kid is working at McDonald's, we tell him that he should have been somebody.

Not caring about education is a cultural issue, but being passive about helping our citizens seems to also be a cultural issue we have here in the States. Both have remedies, and if we improved both attitudes....we'd probably be America #1 again.
 
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Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,986
1,388
126
It's not so much as letting them fail its not letting them drag those that WANT to learn and are willing to work.

The problem is you can't change culture until they WANT to change or they HAVE to change. right now there is no reason. people are happy with what they have.

Agree totally with the bolded and underlined parts. Funny how those legal immigrants were able to make the American dream come true after a few years even they could not speak English, no money, nothing but clothes on their back when they arrived here.

I reckon those evil white racists we hear so much about were helping those folks. <sarcastic>
 
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TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,092
136
It's not so much as letting them fail its not letting them drag those that WANT to learn and are willing to work.

The problem is you can't change culture until they WANT to change or they HAVE to change. right now there is no reason. people are happy with what they have.

It's far more complex than you are making it. It isn't like these kids are born with an innate desire to be an ignorant and lazy piece of non-caring shit. It is what they are taught from birth by their parents (if they even have parents) and their culture. The "culture" just can't suddenly "want" to change, it doesn't know any better. This is why education is so important, and yes, you may not get to every kid, but if you get to just a few here and there, it is a place to get a foothold for "cultural change." You need more success stories/positive examples coming out of that culture, not "fend for yourselves and if you fail, it's your own fault."
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
This isn't a black problem, a white problem, a Latino problem, or an Asian problem. This is an issue with learning across the board. A child that struggles in school with no help is probably more likely to stop caring, drop out, and adopt questionable lifestyles.

^_^

Are you serious? Are you actually unaware that blacks and latinos have significantly lower education outcomes?
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
It's far more complex than you are making it. It isn't like these kids are born with an innate desire to be an ignorant and lazy piece of non-caring shit. It is what they are taught from birth by their parents (if they even have parents) and their culture. The "culture" just can't suddenly "want" to change, it doesn't know any better. This is why education is so important, and yes, you may not get to every kid, but if you get to just a few here and there, it is a place to get a foothold for "cultural change." You need more success stories/positive examples coming out of that culture, not "fend for yourselves and if you fail, it's your own fault."

So maybe in 50 or 100 years things will get better. Maybe.

Here's to hoping!
 

SheHateMe

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2012
7,251
20
81
^_^

Are you serious? Are you actually unaware that blacks and latinos have significantly lower education outcomes?

I get it, ignore the rest of the post. Get upset about a small portion of my comment.

Yes, I am serious. And yes I am aware that blacks and latinos have significantly lower outcomes.

Now, please contribute something to the conversation.
 

kalrith

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2005
6,628
7
81
Here's an interesting bill that could make parents on welfare care whether their kid flunks: http://money.msn.com/now/post.aspx?post=6848a068-50e7-4d64-8ebc-c34d713d235f

Some lawmakers in Tennessee think they have the answer to helping poor students who are struggling in school: Reduce welfare payments to their families.

How would it work? If a poor kid fails a grade, that family's welfare benefits could be cut by up to 30%. The theory is that the threat of less money would prompt the parents to pay attention to their child's learning and education.

"It’s really just something to try to get parents involved with their kids," Sen. Stacey Campfield, who sponsored the legislation, told the Tennessean newspaper. "We have to do something."

An amended version of the bill -- which added tweaks such as limiting maximum penalties to parents who don't attend parent-teacher conferences -- passed a state Senate committee earlier this week, according to the publication. Special-needs students would be exempt.

Research supports Campfield's premise that parental involvement will close the learning gap between the haves and have-nots. A 2007 Harvard Family Research Project study found that parental involvement for children in low-income families made a big difference in achievement.

But it remains to be seen if the threat of lower welfare payments could spur impoverished parents to action -- or even if teachers would fail those students, if they knew that could mean even more troubles at home.

One thing is certain: Low-income students are at a huge disadvantage when compared with kids from wealthier families. Poor children often grow up with a "word gap," meaning they hear fewer spoken words from adults each day than do children from middle- or high-income homes.

"In fact, by the time a child growing up in a low-income household reaches their fourth birthday, they will have heard 30 million fewer words than their peers in middle- and high-income households," according to the Mayors Challenge from Bloomberg Philanthropies.

The charitable organization earlier this month awarded $5 million to Providence, R.I., for a program that seeks to close the word gap with young children.

Tennessee's push comes as the state grapples with a rise in the number of families receiving welfare. According to the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities, welfare recipients in Tennessee have jumped 14% since 2007, when the recession started.

Campbell wrote on his blog on Tuesday that parents would have an "out" if they enroll the kids in tutoring, which he says is "free in every school I know of," or if they set up a tutoring program. Parents could also enroll themselves in a parenting course or attend multiple parent-teacher conferences to get their kids on track.

He added, "If passed this could be a great step in ending generational poverty caused by lack of education."
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
37
91
Will never happen. It will deemed both racist and then you'll have the 'Think of the children!' folks jumping right on in (if they're not the same people yelling racism).

DOA.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
It's far more complex than you are making it. It isn't like these kids are born with an innate desire to be an ignorant and lazy piece of non-caring shit. It is what they are taught from birth by their parents (if they even have parents) and their culture. The "culture" just can't suddenly "want" to change, it doesn't know any better. This is why education is so important, and yes, you may not get to every kid, but if you get to just a few here and there, it is a place to get a foothold for "cultural change." You need more success stories/positive examples coming out of that culture, not "fend for yourselves and if you fail, it's your own fault."

then it seems to me a catch-22. To change the culture you need education. they look to education as a waste or something to avoid.



now my question again. is it worth the negative effects on those that WANT to be in school?