Pb,Ib,or new Sony Fs series

[downwitopp]

For those of you who have seen all three of the notebooks im talking about, which do you recomend. Ive never had a mac but i like the os. If i got the pb it would be the 15inch and if i got the ibook it would be the 12 or 14 and the fs series has a 15.4 widescreen.

 

[Ecgtheow]

What are you going to use it for?

 

[mdahc]

I wouldn't even consider an iBook since iBooks have only one available expansion slot for memory (the other is integrated) and a Mobility Radeon 9200 w/a 32MB frame buffer. The graphics controller is a big problem since it won't be able to handle OS 10.4.x ("Tiger"), which will offload all desktop compositing to the GPU (not to mention that it's right around the corner).

If you get a Powerbook, then definitely get the one with a 1.67GHz CPU and upgrade to the 128MB frame buffer. You'll need it if you don't want to stay stuck with OS 10.3.7 forever.

If you get the Sony FS series, I'd definitely get the option to upgrade to the Geforce Go 6300 since it supports nVIDIA PureVideo. DVD's will be a lot smoother, and your GPU will be doing video hardware decoding (not to mention that you'll have a much better chance at smoothly running Longhorn when it arrives).

In terms of which laptop, like Ecgtheow said, it really depends on your usage requirements. If you're going to need to use Windows-only applications/games, then the choice is rather simple. If not, it's really your call. Both the PowerBook and the FS Series are incredible notebooks, but the iBook is pretty much rubbish until Apple updates them.

 

[Ecgtheow]

The graphics controller is a big problem since it won't be able to handle OS 10.4.x ("Tiger"), which will offload all desktop compositing to the GPU (not to mention that it's right around the corner).

Tiger will run FINE on an iBook. Certain things that can't be done on the GPU (Quartz 2D Extreme, some Core Image filters) will be done on the CPU. If it can run Panther, it won't run Tiger any slower.

Hopefully Apple will clear up the confusion about this when Tiger is released.

 

[mdahc]

Sure it can run on the CPU, but would you really want a maximum of a 1.33GHz G4 (iBook) or 1.67GHz (PowerBook) doing the compositing all or even some of the time? Isn't that sort of the point in them using discrete graphics in the 1st place? I think he'd be better off getting something that could handle the next OS without any problems.

 

[Ecgtheow]

This should give you a crash course in OS X graphics (on 10.3 Panther):

Mac OS X Technology Overview: Graphics, Imaging, and Multimedia

Some important bits:

Quartz is at the heart of the Mac OS X graphics and windowing environment. It provides rendering support for 2D shapes and text and combines a rich imaging model with on-the-fly rendering, compositing, and anti-aliasing of content. Quartz also implements the windowing system for Mac OS X and provides low-level services such as event routing and cursor management.

Quartz comprises both a client API (Quartz 2D) and a window server (Quartz Compositor). Applications use the client API to draw primitive shapes and text in their windows. Quartz Compositor is a lightweight window server that provides essential services to clients (through the Quartz client API) but does not perform any rendering itself.

...

The performance of Quartz Compositor remains consistently high due to several factors. To improve window redraw performance, Quartz Compositor supports buffered windows and the layered compositing of windows and window content. Thus, windows that are hidden behind opaque content are never composited. Quartz Compositor also incorporates Quartz Extreme, which speeds up rendering calls by handing them off to graphics hardware whenever possible.

Quartz is made up of two parts: Quartz 2D (the drawing part) and Quartz Compositor (the compositing part). The Quartz Compositor has been accelerated on the GPU since 10.2 Jaguar. Tiger adds two new things: Quartz 2D Extreme and Core Image. Quartz 2D Extreme allows Quartz 2D to be accelerated on a GPU that supports programmable shaders. If the GPU doesn't support it, it will be done on the CPU as it's been.

Core Image is something different. Apple's Core Image web site explains it:

Until now, harnessing the power of the GPU required in-depth knowledge of pixel-level programming. Core Image allows developers to easily leverage these programmable GPUs for blistering-fast image processing that can eliminate rendering time delays. Effects and transitions can be expressed with a few lines of code. Core Image handles the rest, optimizing the path to the GPU. The result is real-time, interactive responsiveness as you select and apply filters.

For computers without a programmable GPU, Core Image dynamically optimizes for the CPU, automatically tuning for Velocity Engine and multiple processors as appropriate. (emphasis added)

Core Image provides a plug-in style architecture for accessing filters, transitions and effects packages called Image Units. Image Units provide centralized management for image processing plug-ins that can be shared across all host applications. Developers can spend more time creating new Image Units instead of porting code to work across heterogeneous applications. Image Units achieve unprecedented reliability and stability as well as performance.

Core Image is just an image processing library. If effects can be done on the GPU, the will; if they can't, they won't. From a user experience perspective this just means that you won't get some of the eye candy in 10.4 (like the droplet effect in Dashboard). I'm not sure what third-party devs will do with it.

But in general, I feel very safe in saying that 10.4 will be faster on an iBook than 10.3. I have a dual 500 MHz g4 from 2000, and each release has been faster than the last. I expect Tiger to keep up the pattern.

 

[mdahc]

Okay, firstly, I don't really need a "crash course" in Quartz/OpenGL. Secondly, I'm not saying that OS 10.4.x would NOT run on the iBook (I admit that I exaggerated a bit in my originaly reply). Rather, I'm saying that a 32MB frame buffer might make windowing a little choppy since the CPU/system memory would be making up for the GPU, especially if you want to connect an external monitor with a higher native resolution than the iBook.

I'm not just pulling crap out of my arse. I'm restating what Anand said in his review of the Mac mini, which also uses a Radeon 9200 w/ a 32MB frame buffer.

Anyway, I'm not trying to start an arguement or anything. I just think the iBook isn't worth anyone's time when you can spend a little extra and get a much more powerful PowerBook with double the frame buffer and two available memory expansion slots (excluding the 12" Powerbook).

 

[Wuzup101]

You do realize that the base 12" iBook is half the price of the base 15" powerbook right? The iBook will be fine in Tiger - but the powerbook will be better all around. If you can afford the PB definitely get it (and definitely get the 128 vram like mdach said). I wouldn't worry about the 1 expansion slot on the iBook either. 1gb dimms are cheap now (you can get one for $160 that will work fine in the iBook). 1.25gb of memory is plenty for most applications in OSX.... I know as that's what I have. The iBook is a nice little machine but it definitely is outclassed by the much more expensive powerbook line. Comparing the 1.67ghz 15" to any of the iBooks isn't really fair. You can get a 12" iBook w/ an 80gb hard drive, bluetooth, wireless b/g, and 256mb of ram from apple for $1,174 before taxes and shipping. Add a 1gb dimm to that from newegg.com or outpost.com and you're right around $1400. The 15" powerbook w/ the 1.67ghz G4, 128mb vram, 512mb ram, superdrive, etc... is going to run you a hefty $2,400 before taxes and shipping (which would be another $150+ on that machine). Now don't get me wrong, I have a nearly top of the line 15" powerbook from the last rev... it's awesome... but that does come at a decent price...

 

[mdahc]

I just think if you're going to shell out for an Apple, you might as well go with a PowerBook. One thing I forgot to mention is the fact that the LCD's Apple uses in their notebooks just don't compare to the Xbrite's on the Sony FS Series. So that 's another thing to consider.

 

[Wuzup101]

Originally posted by: mdahc
I just think if you're going to shell out for an Apple, you might as well go with a PowerBook. One thing I forgot to mention is the fact that the LCD's Apple uses in their notebooks just don't compare to the Xbrite's on the Sony FS Series. So that 's another thing to consider.

That is a good point... I really hope apple will update their LCDs with some newer technology (read: higher rez) when they intro the G5 powerbooks later this year... much later

 

[mdahc]

Any word on how much later in the year for G5 PowerBooks?

 

[Commodus]

mdahc:

Most rumours put the PowerBook G5 at WWDC (late June) or Apple Expo (mid-September). This is partly fueled by the characteristics of the most recent PowerBook update. It was announced at the very end of January, on a day of the week when Apple doesn't normally launch updates. This suggests that Apple was deliberately timing the release to give enough breathing space for the MWSF announcements while still keeping the PowerBook on life support up until the intended G5 announcement.

Also, the addition of features to the PowerBooks is eerily reminiscient of what Apple did to the final PowerMac G4 update: they knew they couldn't compete on performance, so they added new features while lowering the price. The last PowerMac G4s got Firewire 800, Airport Extreme support, and Bluetooth support; these PowerBook G4s get dual-link DVI on certain configs, Bluetooth 2.0, the Sudden Motion Sensor, and a scroll-capable trackpad.

Even the prices are disturbingly similar: it's $1499 on the low end, $1999 in the mid-range, and $2699 at the top. It's almost like Apple is putting out warning markers for people who want faster PowerBooks.

 

[downwitopp]

Its most likely gonna replace my desktop. So it will probably be between the 15 inch pb with superdrive,1.5,80 gig hd, and 64 mb video card,512(max 2gig) ram vs. the sony fs series with 80 gig hd,512 ram(max 1 gig),128 shared video,1.6 processor. Ive used both computers and i like them both. Ive had trouble with my amd desktop with crashes and blue screen of death although this does not happen ofton. Maybe once a month. Other than that its very stable and i run it all the time. But its LOUD in a lian li case with 4 or so fans. Pb or fs series? help! Also the sony fs series is 1699 and the pb will cost me 2000. The programs i use are studio mx,with flash,dreamweaver and such for web design. Photo shop light stuff. No games really. Word processing(a lot). Wireless internet. Burning cd's and dvd's. Id also like to edit my own movies and keep track of all my photos.

 

[makken]

this is a little bit off topic,

but does anyone if sony plans to update the S-series line anytime soon with the new Pentium M processors, or is the FS line suppose to replace the S?

thanks.

As for the XBRITE, it's only avaliable on the FS in XGA form, so it's still a 1280x800 screen Sony only seems to offer a WUXGA on the A-series line

 

[mdahc]

nVIDIA announced that the S and FS series are both supposed to feature the Geforce Go 6200 w/ Turbo Cache, so one would think that Sony is going to update the S series since the mobile 6200 is PCIe/MXM only (meaning they'd have to update the S series to use the Intel 915P/Alviso chipset and Sonoma Pentium M).

 

[downwitopp]

Originally posted by: mdahc
nVIDIA announced that the S and FS series are both supposed to feature the Geforce Go 6200 w/ Turbo Cache, so one would think that Sony is going to update the S series since the mobile 6200 is PCIe/MXM only (meaning they'd have to update the S series to use the Intel 915P/Alviso chipset and Sonoma Pentium M).

This has nothing to do with the topic

 

[mdahc]

Originally posted by: downwitopp

Originally posted by: mdahc
nVIDIA announced that the S and FS series are both supposed to feature the Geforce Go 6200 w/ Turbo Cache, so one would think that Sony is going to update the S series since the mobile 6200 is PCIe/MXM only (meaning they'd have to update the S series to use the Intel 915P/Alviso chipset and Sonoma Pentium M).

This has nothing to do with the topic

Did you not read "makken's" post? Geez, so the guy is a little off topic. Haven't we all strayed a bit off topic on this one anyway.

Originally posted by: makken
this is a little bit off topic,

but does anyone if sony plans to update the S-series line anytime soon with the new Pentium M processors, or is the FS line suppose to replace the S?

thanks.

As for the XBRITE, it's only avaliable on the FS in XGA form, so it's still a 1280x800 screen Sony only seems to offer a WUXGA on the A-series line

 

[makken]

Ah that's good news!
I hope they also offer the new PCIe mobile radeons from ATi.. X700 / X800 i believe.

Thanks for the head's up.

Sorry if i wandered off topic a lil' bit, didn't think a simple question like this was worth an entirely new thread.

 

[Wuzup101]

Originally posted by: downwitopp

Originally posted by: mdahc
nVIDIA announced that the S and FS series are both supposed to feature the Geforce Go 6200 w/ Turbo Cache, so one would think that Sony is going to update the S series since the mobile 6200 is PCIe/MXM only (meaning they'd have to update the S series to use the Intel 915P/Alviso chipset and Sonoma Pentium M).

This has nothing to do with the topic

Honestly I think mdahc's post was very helpful, and I'd be happy that he posted it if I were you. This is one of the machines that you are considering, hence, you might want to know that it's due for an upgrade in the near future.

 

[fbrdphreak]

There will be an in-depth review on the FS series at the website in my sig, should be up in the near future. PM me for details

EDIT Just checked and it is the FS550 that we will be reviewing, see here. We just received it & the review should be posted in a couple weeks. Just an FYI for anyone interested in the new Sonoma's