Paypal/shipping dispute [4th update]

shabby

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,782
45
91
I sold an item to a fellow down in the states, he paid me 3 weeks ago and i shipped it out immediately and provided him with the tracking number.
He contacts me a week later asking where was his item, i told him it might take a bit longer to get there since its an international economy shipment so wait another week.
A week passes by he says he already bought the same item locally and he demands a refund because the package i sent him hasn't arrived in a timely manner. I looked at the tracking of the package and sure enough it didn't get there. I called the post office the next day and they said they will do a full trace on the package and get back to me within 5 days.

The package arrived yesterday, whew, but he still demands a refund... wtf. He says because the package didn't arrive in a timely manner i broke some terms and conditions/contract of his. Either way i said no refund, you have your package end of story. He said he will do a charge back, i said go ahead.

What are the odds that he'll win this dispute?

Update: I won :D

Thank you for providing the requested information in a timely manner.

As stated in our User Agreement, PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy only
applies to the shipment of goods, not to claims about the attributes or
quality of goods received. Therefore, this investigation has been closed
and no action has been taken. If the buyer returns the item, please provide
a refund consistent with your return policy.

Thank you again for your cooperation with our investigation.

Update 2 - Nov 11
Looks like this guy just wont give up, after his loss with paypal he's doing a charge back through his credit card company. Now paypal says they will block the funds in my account because the cc company reversed the charge, since i have no funds in my account i guess they'll pull the money from my bank.
Paypal says it'll take upto 75 days for the cc company to make a final decision on the dispute.
And what did he tell the credit card company? He never received the item... isnt this basically fraud since he already admitted that he did receive it in the paypal dispute?

Update 3 - Dec 15

Case Closed (Dispute Won)
This claim has been decided in your favor. We'll deal directly with the credit card issuer during the investigation of the chargeback, and we'll cover all fees related to the claim.
You don't need to participate in this investigation at this point. We might email you later to request more information about this transaction.

This is wierd, its almost like paypal decided in my favor but the investigation is still going on between visa and paypal. But since it says that the case is closed and i wont have to pay... all is well again :D

Update 4 - Jan 15

Looks like the buyer won the case with visa and got his money back because i just received my product back. But with paypal covering the fees and taking a loss... im $250 richer since im going to resell it again :D
 

dman

Diamond Member
Nov 2, 1999
9,110
0
76
Do you have an email that says he has it now? I'd say it's 50/50 who they'll side with, technically you shouldn't have an issue but paypal isn't fair.
 
Sep 12, 2004
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Tell him to ship it back to you, on his dime. Let him know hat as soon as you receive it you will refund his purchase. That's about all you can do. Let him know that if he expects quick shipments from international sellers then he should spring for a priority method since you have no control over the flow of the mail stream.
 

shabby

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,782
45
91
dman: he pm'ed me that he got it, im sure on monday the tracking info will be updated with the delivery confirmation.

TastesLikeChicken: i didn't offer him any money back guarantee if the shipment would be late, but if the product wouldn't work i would certainly take it back no question.

waffleironhead: i offered him a shipped price, he accepted it so i shipped it my way.
 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: shabby
TastesLikeChicken: i didn't offer him any money back guarantee if the shipment would be late, but if the product wouldn't work i would certainly take it back no question.
The reason I suggested that is that it puts the ball back in his court. You've extended the olive branch when you probably didn't legitimately have to do so and it places the onus on the customer to decide what to do. It keeps you out of the dispute process with PP/eBay as well.

This guy may balk at returning the item simply because he got impatient, particularly when he finds out he has to package it up (or relabel it if he didn't open it), schlub it to the post office, pay the shipping charges, and fill out the customs form.
 

shabby

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,782
45
91
But he didn't balk at shipping it back, he said he would but maybe he was bluffing. Either way if he wins this dispute somehow he's still have to pay to ship it back, i just want to see how his ridiculous complaint will be handled by paypal when he has the product in his hands.
 

buzzsaw13

Diamond Member
Apr 30, 2004
3,814
0
76
I've had to wait 3-4 weeks for something sent via media mail from across the country. If you sent him a tracking number/delivery confirmation, sounds like he can go pound sand and learn how to be patient in the future.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
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Originally posted by: shabby
But he didn't balk at shipping it back, he said he would but maybe he was bluffing. Either way if he wins this dispute somehow he's still have to pay to ship it back, i just want to see how his ridiculous complaint will be handled by paypal when he has the product in his hands.
He probably doesn't have much of a leg to stand on as long as you can show you shipped it in a timely manner. Mail service delays are not your problem, nor should they be. However, I'm suggesting you avoid the entire dispute process. Let him ship it back and then shoot a second chance offer to the next highest bidder. It'll probably be less of a hassle in the long run. If the second chance doesn't work, just relist it.
 

shabby

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,782
45
91
I cant really lose anything in a dispute process, he said he will ship it back to when he wins but i just dont see the dispute going his way.
I just dont see the person at paypal going along with his reasoning for a charge back, he has the product so why should they start a charge back?
Anyway i'll keep this thread updated, i'll lose all faith in paypal if they agree with this guy.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Originally posted by: shabby
I cant really lose anything in a dispute process, he said he will ship it back to when he wins but i just dont see the dispute going his way.
I just dont see the person at paypal going along with his reasoning for a charge back, he has the product so why should they start a charge back?
Anyway i'll keep this thread updated, i'll lose all faith in paypal if they agree with this guy.

the claims process can be fuxored.

IMHO I'd give the guy a negative regardless of getting the item back. Buying anything across borders can be a 2+ week process at times. Unless you are willing to wait and the item can't be found within your own borders you should look elsewhere.

I absolutely hate those that buy another item whether locally because they could not wait or online because the price dropped the next week after their item was in transit and expect the seller to eat the costs.

I read a thread tonight about a guy that bought another video card that he now wants to return while his main card was being RMA'd. I just don't see the ethics in that. The consumer eventually has to cover this.

 

Gigantopithecus

Diamond Member
Dec 14, 2004
7,664
0
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Originally posted by: alkemyst
IMHO I'd give the guy a negative regardless of getting the item back.

Sellers can't leave buyer negative feedback anymore. (Nor neutrals.)

OP try craigslist & the for sale/trade forums here. eBay/PayPal has become rather hostile towards sellers over the past few years.
 

Kelemvor

Lifer
May 23, 2002
16,928
8
81
If he files with Paypal/eBay you should win. But of course when PP is concerned, always consider yourself screwed until proven otherwise.

If it was expensive, get the money out of your PP account and change your bank account if it's worth that much to you. But I wouldn't worry about it.
 

thepd7

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2005
9,423
0
0
Originally posted by: Kelemvor
If he files with Paypal/eBay you should win. But of course when PP is concerned, always consider yourself screwed until proven otherwise.

If it was expensive, get the money out of your PP account and change your bank account if it's worth that much to you. But I wouldn't worry about it.

this.

My understand is that if you can prove he got it, you will win.
 

buzzsaw13

Diamond Member
Apr 30, 2004
3,814
0
76
Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
Originally posted by: alkemyst
IMHO I'd give the guy a negative regardless of getting the item back.

Sellers can't leave buyer negative feedback anymore. (Nor neutrals.)

OP try craigslist & the for sale/trade forums here. eBay/PayPal has become rather hostile towards sellers over the past few years.

I'm guessing the OP did not sell through Ebay, but through forums (maybe FS/FT here)

If he did sell through here, this is definitely grounds for a neutral/negative heat.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
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Originally posted by: shabby
I cant really lose anything in a dispute process, he said he will ship it back to when he wins but i just dont see the dispute going his way.
I just dont see the person at paypal going along with his reasoning for a charge back, he has the product so why should they start a charge back?
Anyway i'll keep this thread updated, i'll lose all faith in paypal if they agree with this guy.
When it's all said and done, it's your call. If you want to pursue it, do it.

Personally, as someone who has shipped thousands of items on eBay (my wife and I have been doing it as a hobby on the side for @ 8 years), I don't think going through the dispute process is worth the trouble just to prove a point, even when the customers are jerks.

I'd rather be the nice guy and then block the jerk from bidding on any of my auctions in the future. :)

Let us know what happens though. PayPal is known to side with the customer even when they're wrong. Good luck.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Originally posted by: buzzsaw13
Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
Originally posted by: alkemyst
IMHO I'd give the guy a negative regardless of getting the item back.

Sellers can't leave buyer negative feedback anymore. (Nor neutrals.)

OP try craigslist & the for sale/trade forums here. eBay/PayPal has become rather hostile towards sellers over the past few years.

I'm guessing the OP did not sell through Ebay, but through forums (maybe FS/FT here)

If he did sell through here, this is definitely grounds for a neutral/negative heat.

That was my thoughts too since ebay wasn't mentioned.

 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: buzzsaw13
Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
Originally posted by: alkemyst
IMHO I'd give the guy a negative regardless of getting the item back.

Sellers can't leave buyer negative feedback anymore. (Nor neutrals.)

OP try craigslist & the for sale/trade forums here. eBay/PayPal has become rather hostile towards sellers over the past few years.

I'm guessing the OP did not sell through Ebay, but through forums (maybe FS/FT here)

If he did sell through here, this is definitely grounds for a neutral/negative heat.

That was my thoughts too since ebay wasn't mentioned.
Doesn't really matter where it was sold, particularly since eBay owns PayPal. Nor are you going to get any decent seller protection on craigslist.

There are risks to selling online. One risk is that the buyer is an idiot. It's a potential risk that you have to deal with.
 

AlienCraft

Lifer
Nov 23, 2002
10,539
0
0
Originally posted by: OdiN
100%

Paypal sides with buyers pretty much no matter what it seems.
:thumbsup:
You abide by their TOS, no matter what terms you place subsequently.

 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Doesn't really matter where it was sold, particularly since eBay owns PayPal. Nor are you going to get any decent seller protection on craigslist.

There are risks to selling online. One risk is that the buyer is an idiot. It's a potential risk that you have to deal with.

We were talking if there is an option to leave a negative, not the history of internet selling.

I think everyone knows the rest of what you have stated.
 

Injury

Lifer
Jul 19, 2004
13,066
2
81
The real answer to this question is that because you are using PayPal, you BOTH lose.