paypal bashing website
- Thread starter morkinva
- Start date
Is PayPal a scam?
No, but pray that you don't leave any money in your account (not funds, money that's to be withdrawed), because if paypal ever shuts down, you probably won't see that money.
No, but pray that you don't leave any money in your account (not funds, money that's to be withdrawed), because if paypal ever shuts down, you probably won't see that money.
Hi,
Customer monies are kept in entirely separate accounts from operating expenses, which should alleviate some concerns over an unlikely shutdown.
As it relates to the site....Many users have been assisted by me in this forum, as well as others. I would hope that users realize that the internet is a free forum, but that the information is not always accurate. All customer service issues can be resolved.
Customer monies are kept in entirely separate accounts from operating expenses, which should alleviate some concerns over an unlikely shutdown.
As it relates to the site....Many users have been assisted by me in this forum, as well as others. I would hope that users realize that the internet is a free forum, but that the information is not always accurate. All customer service issues can be resolved.
polypterus
Golden Member
- Jan 14, 2001
- 1,766
- 1
- 76
Paypaldamon:
With all due respect, what statements that have been posted on that website posted here are false??
If any are false, if they are false they are with malice and if this is so why has not paypal taken legal steps to prevent the information on that site from being posted on the internet??
Bleep
With all due respect, what statements that have been posted on that website posted here are false??
If any are false, if they are false they are with malice and if this is so why has not paypal taken legal steps to prevent the information on that site from being posted on the internet??
Bleep
Hi bleep,
Free speech is allowed on the internet. I could (in theory) take action only against slander. You can see in many cases that the users did not understand how the service works, what protection is offered, or what the terms of use are. The site's disclaimer is that they can't verify the stories.
Let's look at several issues mentioned on the forum:
(Customer sent payment to the wrong email address. Users are prompted twice before sending payment to any party. Our terms of use also advise that we are NOT responsible for payments sent to the incorrect party. This is an issue the party has to take with the recipient)
a)Consumer reporting scam: AOL User (12/7/01)
I accidentally sent an Ebay auction payment to the wrong email address, and realized by mistake the second I hit the send button. I immediately attempted the cancel the payment, however, the cancel button would not work. I emailed Paypal and told them the situation and spent the next 10 minutes or so attempting the to stop the payment. 24 hours later I received an email from Paypal saying they could not stop a payment that had already been received and that I needed to contact the recipient. I emailed them back and told them that there is no way that the payment could have been received 30 seconds after I sent it. I received no further emails from paypal. The recipient of the payment claims that he doesn't have a paypal account, nor has he ever used paypal or Ebay for that matter. Solve this one.
I have already advised the user below what is causing the issue. The information has been directed to the account management team. Please take note of the word "accounts".
I posted this on AuctionWatch.com My accounts have been frozen for over three weeks, I have faxed all the requested info in 3 times, and no one will talk to me to remove the restrictions. I found a direct fax number via a very sympathetic customer service representative and he actually put my fax on the desk of my appeals reviewer, and the jerk will still not talk to me. I got into a huge fight on the phone with the supervisor Stephanie who is nothing short of rude and a moron, spouting out all this incorrect information without even LOOKING at the facts which I painstakingly researched, collected, and faxed (3 times)! I am lucky enough to have a friend who works at CBS, and we are going to Joel Grover, who does investigative reporting for Los Angeles, and has most of his reports covered nationally by 48 Hours, Investigative Reports on A & E, and other venues. I am also lodging complaints to the BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU, the US FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSIONER, and the ATTORNEY GENERAL in Nebraska, California, and anywhere else they do business. I am going to take them to small claims court on every individual payment that has been frozen. I have lots of time. They picked the wrong person to screw.
THe Buyer Complaint Process does state that we can't guarantee recovery from a bad seller. We have no control over the listings at another venue, nor can we control individual actions.
Consumer reporting scam: Jared Ballou (12/5/01)
Hey a few months back I was involved in a scam, I sent $175 to a PayPal user and got nothing. I filed a claim, 3 weeks later, I get an email that I was in the right and my money will be refunded. I've gotten $0.96 back so far.
This user admits to getting information off of a non-PayPal site re: the Buyer Complaint Process. The policy was changed Nov.2000---reflected on our web site.
Consumer reporting scam: Gurista 12/03/01
I got ripped off to the tune of $2600 (plus shipping) using Paypal. Of course they are no help because "it isn't their fault I bought from a thief".
Believe it or not, x.com, the owner of paypal, actually had a buyer protection plan for buyers. This policy started 8/1/00. It said that buyers who buy from a verified seller are entitled to a full refund of the purchase amount up to $5000 per year. This information was available at the site
http://www.pay-pal-infocenter.com/fraud.htm
I say WAS because it was available until I asked "Damon Billian" <dbillian@paypal.com> about the site (he said that it has nothing to do with Paypal but the information on the site now reflects Paypals current no guarantee guarantee. I searched the web for information about the old guarantee and found a site which touted this guarantee
http://www.kidstories.com/pay_pal_guarantee.html
"Buyers who pay with PayPal are protected by X.com's Buyer Protection Guarantee. If you purchase an item from a Verified Seller and do not receive your purchased goods, you are entitled to a full refund of the purchase amount up to $5000 per year. You may check the verification status of a Seller on every confirmation page before you Send Money. The Buyer Protection Guarantee applies whether you pay with a credit card, checking account, or funds in your PayPal acount."
Customer is claiming unauthorized access. (I also advised on the message board that they should contact me directly) We would restrict the account and then:
a) ask for a police report
b) ask for an affidavit
c) ask for identification
(To prove that they are the party that is making the claim). We would then work the insurance process with the user).
This is what we get from using paypal. No have totally stop using paypal to send payments. As a seller paypal is great and we are primarily a seller but we want to let people know that when they are sending money through paypal it is not safe even though they claim it is. Read the fine print is say they might not be able to recover all funds.
We lost $1475 (payment was in the amount of $1575 and they refunded us $118 with a sorry email and no more support even though we are a premier business account and so called 24 hours support).
Here is the copy of email from paypal
"Our investigation has revealed that the seller is at fault. We are pleased to inform you that we were able to recover funds from
the sellers account. Your account has been credited $118.48. Please allow up to 5 days to see the adjustment on your account.
This amount is the maximum we were able to recover."
So they are pleased by refunding $118.48 out of $1575.00. We called them several times and talked to this and that but no results. Someone using paypal suggested to go to the credit card merchant and ask for their help. We did that and they said no problem we will fight because they indicated lot of people are having problems with paypal. They even had specially people that handled paypal which was shocking to us. So they stopped payment to paypal and in response paypal restricted our account so that we can't withdraw money form it (yes we can still accept money from people but not withdraw from account so everything goes in paypal account) and they charged our other credit card automatically. In order to reinstate our account we need to go through lot of paperwork including an affidavit indicating that it is legal for paypal to withdraw any amount from our bank. Now we locked payment of around 1000.00 plus the 1475.00 we initially lost and how much more we get in payments.
What PayPal did to us. Is your credit card or bank account safe?
Between the evening of the November 23, 2001 until November 24, 2001 a foreign organization was able to access our PayPal account and take $450.00. This was an unauthorized withdrawal.
PayPal advertises that they insure all accounts from unauthorized use. This is a lie.
When we attempted to file a claim, PayPal threatened to restrict our account. This could cost us up to $1500 in sales a month as half our customers use PayPal. PayPal has now restricted our account and continues without authorization to collect money from our buyers, even sending them notices to pay with PayPal.
In the last three months PayPal has stolen over $2000 from our accounts. When contacted they say it was to pay gambling chips at casinos that take PayPal. This is a Church computer and is not used to Gamble. We investigated these Casinos and find they are located in South Africa and Cyprus, both areas tolerant of Terrorist organizations.
In fact by a search on the internet, it appears PayPal is the largest money laundress for organized crime and pro-terriorist organizations that raise money with Gambling sites that are off-shore and not regulated. Most major credit cards will not allow use on these sites, so PayPal fraudulently shows the credit card usage is a PayPal payment rather than a gambling debt to the major credit card companies. http://paypal-casinos.com/
To see more PayPal lies and fraud, click the links below.
I can respond to many of the issues on the boards. I can't tackle all of these cases---as mentioned, all customer issues can be resolved.
Free speech is allowed on the internet. I could (in theory) take action only against slander. You can see in many cases that the users did not understand how the service works, what protection is offered, or what the terms of use are. The site's disclaimer is that they can't verify the stories.
Let's look at several issues mentioned on the forum:
(Customer sent payment to the wrong email address. Users are prompted twice before sending payment to any party. Our terms of use also advise that we are NOT responsible for payments sent to the incorrect party. This is an issue the party has to take with the recipient)
a)Consumer reporting scam: AOL User (12/7/01)
I accidentally sent an Ebay auction payment to the wrong email address, and realized by mistake the second I hit the send button. I immediately attempted the cancel the payment, however, the cancel button would not work. I emailed Paypal and told them the situation and spent the next 10 minutes or so attempting the to stop the payment. 24 hours later I received an email from Paypal saying they could not stop a payment that had already been received and that I needed to contact the recipient. I emailed them back and told them that there is no way that the payment could have been received 30 seconds after I sent it. I received no further emails from paypal. The recipient of the payment claims that he doesn't have a paypal account, nor has he ever used paypal or Ebay for that matter. Solve this one.
I have already advised the user below what is causing the issue. The information has been directed to the account management team. Please take note of the word "accounts".
I posted this on AuctionWatch.com My accounts have been frozen for over three weeks, I have faxed all the requested info in 3 times, and no one will talk to me to remove the restrictions. I found a direct fax number via a very sympathetic customer service representative and he actually put my fax on the desk of my appeals reviewer, and the jerk will still not talk to me. I got into a huge fight on the phone with the supervisor Stephanie who is nothing short of rude and a moron, spouting out all this incorrect information without even LOOKING at the facts which I painstakingly researched, collected, and faxed (3 times)! I am lucky enough to have a friend who works at CBS, and we are going to Joel Grover, who does investigative reporting for Los Angeles, and has most of his reports covered nationally by 48 Hours, Investigative Reports on A & E, and other venues. I am also lodging complaints to the BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU, the US FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSIONER, and the ATTORNEY GENERAL in Nebraska, California, and anywhere else they do business. I am going to take them to small claims court on every individual payment that has been frozen. I have lots of time. They picked the wrong person to screw.
THe Buyer Complaint Process does state that we can't guarantee recovery from a bad seller. We have no control over the listings at another venue, nor can we control individual actions.
Consumer reporting scam: Jared Ballou (12/5/01)
Hey a few months back I was involved in a scam, I sent $175 to a PayPal user and got nothing. I filed a claim, 3 weeks later, I get an email that I was in the right and my money will be refunded. I've gotten $0.96 back so far.
This user admits to getting information off of a non-PayPal site re: the Buyer Complaint Process. The policy was changed Nov.2000---reflected on our web site.
Consumer reporting scam: Gurista 12/03/01
I got ripped off to the tune of $2600 (plus shipping) using Paypal. Of course they are no help because "it isn't their fault I bought from a thief".
Believe it or not, x.com, the owner of paypal, actually had a buyer protection plan for buyers. This policy started 8/1/00. It said that buyers who buy from a verified seller are entitled to a full refund of the purchase amount up to $5000 per year. This information was available at the site
http://www.pay-pal-infocenter.com/fraud.htm
I say WAS because it was available until I asked "Damon Billian" <dbillian@paypal.com> about the site (he said that it has nothing to do with Paypal but the information on the site now reflects Paypals current no guarantee guarantee. I searched the web for information about the old guarantee and found a site which touted this guarantee
http://www.kidstories.com/pay_pal_guarantee.html
"Buyers who pay with PayPal are protected by X.com's Buyer Protection Guarantee. If you purchase an item from a Verified Seller and do not receive your purchased goods, you are entitled to a full refund of the purchase amount up to $5000 per year. You may check the verification status of a Seller on every confirmation page before you Send Money. The Buyer Protection Guarantee applies whether you pay with a credit card, checking account, or funds in your PayPal acount."
Customer is claiming unauthorized access. (I also advised on the message board that they should contact me directly) We would restrict the account and then:
a) ask for a police report
b) ask for an affidavit
c) ask for identification
(To prove that they are the party that is making the claim). We would then work the insurance process with the user).
This is what we get from using paypal. No have totally stop using paypal to send payments. As a seller paypal is great and we are primarily a seller but we want to let people know that when they are sending money through paypal it is not safe even though they claim it is. Read the fine print is say they might not be able to recover all funds.
We lost $1475 (payment was in the amount of $1575 and they refunded us $118 with a sorry email and no more support even though we are a premier business account and so called 24 hours support).
Here is the copy of email from paypal
"Our investigation has revealed that the seller is at fault. We are pleased to inform you that we were able to recover funds from
the sellers account. Your account has been credited $118.48. Please allow up to 5 days to see the adjustment on your account.
This amount is the maximum we were able to recover."
So they are pleased by refunding $118.48 out of $1575.00. We called them several times and talked to this and that but no results. Someone using paypal suggested to go to the credit card merchant and ask for their help. We did that and they said no problem we will fight because they indicated lot of people are having problems with paypal. They even had specially people that handled paypal which was shocking to us. So they stopped payment to paypal and in response paypal restricted our account so that we can't withdraw money form it (yes we can still accept money from people but not withdraw from account so everything goes in paypal account) and they charged our other credit card automatically. In order to reinstate our account we need to go through lot of paperwork including an affidavit indicating that it is legal for paypal to withdraw any amount from our bank. Now we locked payment of around 1000.00 plus the 1475.00 we initially lost and how much more we get in payments.
What PayPal did to us. Is your credit card or bank account safe?
Between the evening of the November 23, 2001 until November 24, 2001 a foreign organization was able to access our PayPal account and take $450.00. This was an unauthorized withdrawal.
PayPal advertises that they insure all accounts from unauthorized use. This is a lie.
When we attempted to file a claim, PayPal threatened to restrict our account. This could cost us up to $1500 in sales a month as half our customers use PayPal. PayPal has now restricted our account and continues without authorization to collect money from our buyers, even sending them notices to pay with PayPal.
In the last three months PayPal has stolen over $2000 from our accounts. When contacted they say it was to pay gambling chips at casinos that take PayPal. This is a Church computer and is not used to Gamble. We investigated these Casinos and find they are located in South Africa and Cyprus, both areas tolerant of Terrorist organizations.
In fact by a search on the internet, it appears PayPal is the largest money laundress for organized crime and pro-terriorist organizations that raise money with Gambling sites that are off-shore and not regulated. Most major credit cards will not allow use on these sites, so PayPal fraudulently shows the credit card usage is a PayPal payment rather than a gambling debt to the major credit card companies. http://paypal-casinos.com/
To see more PayPal lies and fraud, click the links below.
I can respond to many of the issues on the boards. I can't tackle all of these cases---as mentioned, all customer issues can be resolved.
Paypaldamon:
<< Free speech is allowed on the internet. I could (in theory) take action only against slander >>
Sir if any of these statements on the site in question are made with malice, they are slander theterm (I) is telling. You must be a owner ofhe service in question. A disclaimer such as you mention are not a defence against slander. I think thay you might bone up just a little on the laws that apply would be approiate in this matter. I also have seen no postings that would have been slander relating to you so you would have no standing to do anything.
Do you not find it extremely dishartning to have a company the size and scope of paypal to put upon you the responsibility to surf the net and take all the verbal abuse?? So I am going to excersize my freedom of speech and say you sir are a fool no matter what they pay you.
Bleep
<< Free speech is allowed on the internet. I could (in theory) take action only against slander >>
Sir if any of these statements on the site in question are made with malice, they are slander theterm (I) is telling. You must be a owner ofhe service in question. A disclaimer such as you mention are not a defence against slander. I think thay you might bone up just a little on the laws that apply would be approiate in this matter. I also have seen no postings that would have been slander relating to you so you would have no standing to do anything.
Do you not find it extremely dishartning to have a company the size and scope of paypal to put upon you the responsibility to surf the net and take all the verbal abuse?? So I am going to excersize my freedom of speech and say you sir are a fool no matter what they pay you.
Bleep
PayPal sucks!
I hate PayPal!!!
DON'T USE PAYPAL!
I was scammed for $608.50 from a seller who sold me non-working pirated software. This is a felony according to U.S. laws. I informed authorities who verified that the software is fake. I asked PayPal to conduct an investigation. They refuse to do so because they believe that this incident is a "quality of merchandise" issue. Really? Tell that to an adult! They treated me as a kid by running me around.
Tell this to an adult, and an adult will tell you:
So, when you grow up, IF you are caught selling illegal replicas of pirated software on the internet, and the FBI catches you, just tell them "but officer, PayPal told me that this is only a 'quality of merchandise issue.'"
Basically, if you want real fraud protection, don't use PayPal. They will run you around telling you to contact the felon, who will be LONG gone and will not respond to any of your e-mails. Consider using an escrow service instead.
I hate PayPal!!!
DON'T USE PAYPAL!
I was scammed for $608.50 from a seller who sold me non-working pirated software. This is a felony according to U.S. laws. I informed authorities who verified that the software is fake. I asked PayPal to conduct an investigation. They refuse to do so because they believe that this incident is a "quality of merchandise" issue. Really? Tell that to an adult! They treated me as a kid by running me around.
Tell this to an adult, and an adult will tell you:
So, when you grow up, IF you are caught selling illegal replicas of pirated software on the internet, and the FBI catches you, just tell them "but officer, PayPal told me that this is only a 'quality of merchandise issue.'"
Basically, if you want real fraud protection, don't use PayPal. They will run you around telling you to contact the felon, who will be LONG gone and will not respond to any of your e-mails. Consider using an escrow service instead.
- Oct 30, 2000
- 42,589
- 5
- 0
FelixDeCat
Lifer
- Aug 4, 2000
- 30,614
- 2,586
- 126
Paypal has over 11,000,000 members. How many complaints do you see? Take that ratio into account when making decisions about closing your account down.
- Oct 30, 2000
- 42,589
- 5
- 0
It would be nice to get some feedback from the Paypal on some of those complaints. The bashing on the sites seem one-sided (as expected), but if the incident happened, it would be nice to see Paypal explaination/resolution.
If the items go up and are not taken down, it reflects badly on the site and lessens the impressions on Paypal.
If the items go up and are not taken down, it reflects badly on the site and lessens the impressions on Paypal.
I wonder if Osama Bin Laden uses Paypal to funnel terrorist money. Seems like it would be a great medium for his Al Qaida network.
Hi,
I will address some of the complaints with a copy of our terms of use.
From: USAInfoToday (12/12/01)
I have used paypal for over 2 years, and have contributed thousands of dollars to them. THOUSANDS!!!!
I sent a payment of $200 to someone for a product, which never arrived. I filled a complaint, after 2 months, paypal emailed me back, the confirmed that I was the victim and was owed $200. but, there was nothing they could do about it since there is less than $200 in the persons account.
The best they could do was to refer me to the "SAFETY TIPS PAGE" which would help me not get ripped off in the future. as long as I follow their SAFTEY tips, I should not get ripped off. Funny thing is, I followed all the safety tips for this transaction, and still got screwed by the seller and by paypal.
***Terms of use-
Buyer Complaint Policy
General. If you pay a seller who does not ship the promised goods, you should first contact the seller and attempt to resolve the dispute. If you are unable to resolve the dispute in this manner, you should then file a Buyer Complaint Form with PayPal as soon as possible. The Buyer Complaint Form may be found by going to the "Security Center" link in the footer of any page on the PayPal website.
PayPal will investigate your claim, contact the seller and, if the seller does not present appropriate proof of shipment, a full refund or other evidence of a satisfactory resolution, PayPal will seek to collect the amount you paid from the seller. PayPal may also restrict the seller's PayPal account. You and other buyers who file claims against the same seller will be entitled to the return of any and all funds PayPal is able to collect from the seller, on a first-come, first-served basis for funds received by PayPal prior to the restriction of the seller's account. RECOVERY OF YOUR CLAIM IS NOT GUARANTEED.
Complaints must be filed no later than 30 days from the date of payment. PayPal will seek to resolve the complaint within 30 days of the date the complaint is filed, though such time frame may be extended, if appropriate, to accommodate the investigation. ***
From: Dennis (12/11/01)
Even if you follow the rules, you lose when you use PayPal.
Some time ago I received a PayPal payment from a customer for 12 Disney pins. My policy is that I charge a flat rate for the first pin, then an extra quarter for every pin after that. Thus, if you buy more than one item from me, you save on shipping.
I shipped the 12 pins out via US Priority Mail with Tracking, exactly what PayPal tells you to do. 5 days later the "buyer" began asking for credit from PayPal for these same pins. After e-mailing PayPal with proof that the items had been sent/received, the money was still taken out of my account. PayPal exclaimed that I had "no proof that all 12 pins were inside the package," and that they would credit the buyer's account for 11 of the 12 pins.
I then tried to close my account with PayPal, but they FROZE my funds and would not allow me to get them! Worse, they still allowed other buyers to send payments INTO the account, but I had no way of getting it out (A "freeze" means you cannot get money, but PayPal still can).
Stay away from PayPal - with so many other dependable services out there, why risk it?
Dennis in Orlando
****(This customer should contact me--as long as they followed the Seller Protection Program it should not occur. The only issue? If the buyer contacted their credit card company for a merchandise quality dispute---which is not covered. The other issue is if there were multiple reports of issues with the seller, which would lead to a restriction. )****
-From: Richard A. Steenbergen (12/10/01)
I used PayPal for quite some time without any problems, and even transferred large amounts of money into my account in order to collect from their money market fund which had a significantly higher yield then my bank interest (note HAD, it has now fallen to incredibly low levels). Everything was fine and good until I also decided to upgrade to a Premier Account. I understand their reasoning for limiting credit card transactions for free accounts, merchant transactions cost money, and I didn't mind paying the 2.9% fees for people who paid me by credit card. I guess I didn't read closely enough though, because those fees apply to ALL received payments, not just credit card payments. When my roommate PayPal'd me money for rent, I suddenly realized they charged me $100 to transfer from bank account to bank account. "So much for convenience", I thought, "next time I'll just take a check". Now comes the fun part, trying to downgrade back to the free account. While it only takes a click to upgrade, apparently there is no such thing as downgrading. Apparently there is also no such thing as someone answering support mail, since I explained the situation and requested a downgrade, and received NO response. Not to mention their "Comment" form (they don't even provide a real email address) limits you to 400 characters. I guess I've learned my lesson about trusting a less then professional organization with my money. PayPal isn't the "bank with online clue" people are wanting, the service stops when it isn't making them money.
****Customers can downgrade their account once. If he has an issue, then they should contact customer service again. Business/Premier accounts are charged fees on all transactions, which is defined on the web site)****
-
From: Anonymous (12/10/01)
I once won an auction on ebay, and I went through the paypal system like normal, but they charged my credit card twice...This wasn't a problem as it should have been easily fixed...
I called up paypal, and their basic solution to the problem was that I clicked the mouse twice and I shouldn't of done that, and to get the receiver of the money to send the money back to me....But I didn't click the mouse twice... it said not to, I'm an internet veteran of 10 years, I know how to use it... after acknowledging this, they still had the same solution, get the other guy to pay you back...
Fortunately for me the seller of the auction was a fair business man, and sent the money back, but there was nothing for paypal to do if he didn't.
Nice and secure customer service, it's pathetic.
***We can correspond all transactions with an action taken by the user. The simple solution is to contact the recipient to advise they sent the payment twice.***
From: M. Brooke Helman (12/10/01)
I thought I was the only one with a problem with Paypal, because for the longest time none of my friends had a problem, and I didn't know of anyone else who had had a problem. I am a routine buyer on Ebay. PayPal stood to make a lot of money in the way of the small fees that they charge the seller for transferring money. When I set up my account about a year ago at this point, I was only required to post a credit card. I posted my debit card. Then, a little while later, they asked for my bank account number. Between signing up and PayPal requesting that information, I didn't have any problems, so I did, because they would verify me as a buyer. That's when the problems started! When I would pay for an item, it would automatically charge my bank account, even when I picked credit card. Keep in mind that I was using a debit card as my credit card, so they were the same thing. I was ROUTINELY double charged by Paypal. The first time it happened, my bank caught the error, and reversed the charge. The second time it happened, Paypal reversed the charge and assured me that it wouldn't happen again. They didn't cover the overdraft fee from my bank though which was their fault for double charging. I figured that I was a freak of nature, and tried one more time. Yep, third time, no charm, PayPal double charged me again. At this point, I ask Paypal to please adjust the default on my account to automatically pick Credit Card instead of Bank Account. They declined to do so. Then I ask them to remove my bank account information entirely, since they weren't going to cooperate with my request for the default change. They refused outright. That's when I closed my account. I'm VERY glad I did after hearing all of this from other people. I've never had a problem with Ebay's paying service Billpoint, and now the Postal Service will issue money orders online that will be mailed out from the post office closest to the seller, saving a bunch of time. I just couldn't believe that they would defraud an honest BUYER, the very person that GENERATES FUNDS FOR THEM.
*** The user has to change the method of payment on the SEND MONEY screen***
From: Harvey Beagle (Monsignor) (12/8/01)
I'm a retired Monsignor with an Old Catholic Church and have been selling postcards on e-bay since January 1997. We raise small amounts of money to help support an Orphanage in Mexico and other charity programs. We joined PayPal over a year ago and found the service wonderful. When they issued us an ATM card it was even better as we used it to pay e-bay, and postal charges, etc.
For the past 6 months at various times money has been taken out of our account. We notified PayPal via their red carpet phone number and took their advise, changed our pass word, etc. We finally opened a new bank account with only $5.00 in it and got a secured credit card that was almost maxed out to keep PayPal from dipping into our funds.
Over the Thanksgiving holidays we were horrified to find PayPal was able to withdraw over $500 from our bank account with only $5.00 in it, they also tried to keep billing our credit card. When I called to report the unauthorized activity I was told if I made a complaint they would restrict our account. I made the complaint with our bank and the police department. PayPal immediately suspended our account, but continued to send e-mail to our buyers and collect money from them.
Today I am informed the following:
Thank you for contacting PayPal.
We have completed a thorough investigation of your case and have denied your Unauthorized Account Use Claim.
Also, we have terminated your further use of PayPal. This termination is per PayPal's Terms of Use, Section V. Rights and Disclaimers of PayPal, number 4:
"Termination. PayPal, in its sole discretion, reserves the right to terminate this Agreement, access to its website, or access to Service without notice for any reason and at any time."
Your account will remain locked indefinitely, and we ask that you not attempt to open a duplicate account, as any additional accounts will be locked from use as well.
We thank you for your business with PayPal.
They have hurt us bad, not only taking the money that is not theirs, but trying to ruin our reputation with the credit card company and our bank. We will make good on all the customers that paid through PayPal, but we operate on a very small budget, most our funds going to the kids, and this hurts bad.
In all my years, and I'm over 60, I have never seen an unregulated business that can literally get away with anything they want and don't care who they hurt. I hope someone can shut them down and jail the owners.
[Editors note]
Have they no shame? Forgive them father, for they have sinned.
***Unauthorized account access issues are given high priority. I have even asked this user to contact me---no response. The account would be restricted and we would:
a) ask for an affidavit
b) police report
c) identification (to prove we are speaking to the correct party)
From: AOL User (12/7/01)
I accidentally sent an Ebay auction payment to the wrong email address, and realized by mistake the second I hit the send button. I immediately attempted the cancel the payment, however, the cancel button would not work. I emailed Paypal and told them the situation and spent the next 10 minutes or so attempting the to stop the payment. 24 hours later I received an email from Paypal saying they could not stop a payment that had already been received and that I needed to contact the recipient. I emailed them back and told them that there is no way that the payment could have been received 30 seconds after I sent it. I received no further emails from paypal. The recipient of the payment claims that he doesn't have a paypal account, nor has he ever used paypal or Ebay for that matter. Solve this one.
**Terms of use-misc. disclaimers-PayPal shall not be responsible for payments made to unintended Recipients or for payments made in incorrect amounts due to the input of incorrect information by Senders. This payment, if not received by the recipient, would be viewed as UNCLAIMED in their account***
I will address some of the complaints with a copy of our terms of use.
From: USAInfoToday (12/12/01)
I have used paypal for over 2 years, and have contributed thousands of dollars to them. THOUSANDS!!!!
I sent a payment of $200 to someone for a product, which never arrived. I filled a complaint, after 2 months, paypal emailed me back, the confirmed that I was the victim and was owed $200. but, there was nothing they could do about it since there is less than $200 in the persons account.
The best they could do was to refer me to the "SAFETY TIPS PAGE" which would help me not get ripped off in the future. as long as I follow their SAFTEY tips, I should not get ripped off. Funny thing is, I followed all the safety tips for this transaction, and still got screwed by the seller and by paypal.
***Terms of use-
Buyer Complaint Policy
General. If you pay a seller who does not ship the promised goods, you should first contact the seller and attempt to resolve the dispute. If you are unable to resolve the dispute in this manner, you should then file a Buyer Complaint Form with PayPal as soon as possible. The Buyer Complaint Form may be found by going to the "Security Center" link in the footer of any page on the PayPal website.
PayPal will investigate your claim, contact the seller and, if the seller does not present appropriate proof of shipment, a full refund or other evidence of a satisfactory resolution, PayPal will seek to collect the amount you paid from the seller. PayPal may also restrict the seller's PayPal account. You and other buyers who file claims against the same seller will be entitled to the return of any and all funds PayPal is able to collect from the seller, on a first-come, first-served basis for funds received by PayPal prior to the restriction of the seller's account. RECOVERY OF YOUR CLAIM IS NOT GUARANTEED.
Complaints must be filed no later than 30 days from the date of payment. PayPal will seek to resolve the complaint within 30 days of the date the complaint is filed, though such time frame may be extended, if appropriate, to accommodate the investigation. ***
From: Dennis (12/11/01)
Even if you follow the rules, you lose when you use PayPal.
Some time ago I received a PayPal payment from a customer for 12 Disney pins. My policy is that I charge a flat rate for the first pin, then an extra quarter for every pin after that. Thus, if you buy more than one item from me, you save on shipping.
I shipped the 12 pins out via US Priority Mail with Tracking, exactly what PayPal tells you to do. 5 days later the "buyer" began asking for credit from PayPal for these same pins. After e-mailing PayPal with proof that the items had been sent/received, the money was still taken out of my account. PayPal exclaimed that I had "no proof that all 12 pins were inside the package," and that they would credit the buyer's account for 11 of the 12 pins.
I then tried to close my account with PayPal, but they FROZE my funds and would not allow me to get them! Worse, they still allowed other buyers to send payments INTO the account, but I had no way of getting it out (A "freeze" means you cannot get money, but PayPal still can).
Stay away from PayPal - with so many other dependable services out there, why risk it?
Dennis in Orlando
****(This customer should contact me--as long as they followed the Seller Protection Program it should not occur. The only issue? If the buyer contacted their credit card company for a merchandise quality dispute---which is not covered. The other issue is if there were multiple reports of issues with the seller, which would lead to a restriction. )****
-From: Richard A. Steenbergen (12/10/01)
I used PayPal for quite some time without any problems, and even transferred large amounts of money into my account in order to collect from their money market fund which had a significantly higher yield then my bank interest (note HAD, it has now fallen to incredibly low levels). Everything was fine and good until I also decided to upgrade to a Premier Account. I understand their reasoning for limiting credit card transactions for free accounts, merchant transactions cost money, and I didn't mind paying the 2.9% fees for people who paid me by credit card. I guess I didn't read closely enough though, because those fees apply to ALL received payments, not just credit card payments. When my roommate PayPal'd me money for rent, I suddenly realized they charged me $100 to transfer from bank account to bank account. "So much for convenience", I thought, "next time I'll just take a check". Now comes the fun part, trying to downgrade back to the free account. While it only takes a click to upgrade, apparently there is no such thing as downgrading. Apparently there is also no such thing as someone answering support mail, since I explained the situation and requested a downgrade, and received NO response. Not to mention their "Comment" form (they don't even provide a real email address) limits you to 400 characters. I guess I've learned my lesson about trusting a less then professional organization with my money. PayPal isn't the "bank with online clue" people are wanting, the service stops when it isn't making them money.
****Customers can downgrade their account once. If he has an issue, then they should contact customer service again. Business/Premier accounts are charged fees on all transactions, which is defined on the web site)****
-
From: Anonymous (12/10/01)
I once won an auction on ebay, and I went through the paypal system like normal, but they charged my credit card twice...This wasn't a problem as it should have been easily fixed...
I called up paypal, and their basic solution to the problem was that I clicked the mouse twice and I shouldn't of done that, and to get the receiver of the money to send the money back to me....But I didn't click the mouse twice... it said not to, I'm an internet veteran of 10 years, I know how to use it... after acknowledging this, they still had the same solution, get the other guy to pay you back...
Fortunately for me the seller of the auction was a fair business man, and sent the money back, but there was nothing for paypal to do if he didn't.
Nice and secure customer service, it's pathetic.
***We can correspond all transactions with an action taken by the user. The simple solution is to contact the recipient to advise they sent the payment twice.***
From: M. Brooke Helman (12/10/01)
I thought I was the only one with a problem with Paypal, because for the longest time none of my friends had a problem, and I didn't know of anyone else who had had a problem. I am a routine buyer on Ebay. PayPal stood to make a lot of money in the way of the small fees that they charge the seller for transferring money. When I set up my account about a year ago at this point, I was only required to post a credit card. I posted my debit card. Then, a little while later, they asked for my bank account number. Between signing up and PayPal requesting that information, I didn't have any problems, so I did, because they would verify me as a buyer. That's when the problems started! When I would pay for an item, it would automatically charge my bank account, even when I picked credit card. Keep in mind that I was using a debit card as my credit card, so they were the same thing. I was ROUTINELY double charged by Paypal. The first time it happened, my bank caught the error, and reversed the charge. The second time it happened, Paypal reversed the charge and assured me that it wouldn't happen again. They didn't cover the overdraft fee from my bank though which was their fault for double charging. I figured that I was a freak of nature, and tried one more time. Yep, third time, no charm, PayPal double charged me again. At this point, I ask Paypal to please adjust the default on my account to automatically pick Credit Card instead of Bank Account. They declined to do so. Then I ask them to remove my bank account information entirely, since they weren't going to cooperate with my request for the default change. They refused outright. That's when I closed my account. I'm VERY glad I did after hearing all of this from other people. I've never had a problem with Ebay's paying service Billpoint, and now the Postal Service will issue money orders online that will be mailed out from the post office closest to the seller, saving a bunch of time. I just couldn't believe that they would defraud an honest BUYER, the very person that GENERATES FUNDS FOR THEM.
*** The user has to change the method of payment on the SEND MONEY screen***
From: Harvey Beagle (Monsignor) (12/8/01)
I'm a retired Monsignor with an Old Catholic Church and have been selling postcards on e-bay since January 1997. We raise small amounts of money to help support an Orphanage in Mexico and other charity programs. We joined PayPal over a year ago and found the service wonderful. When they issued us an ATM card it was even better as we used it to pay e-bay, and postal charges, etc.
For the past 6 months at various times money has been taken out of our account. We notified PayPal via their red carpet phone number and took their advise, changed our pass word, etc. We finally opened a new bank account with only $5.00 in it and got a secured credit card that was almost maxed out to keep PayPal from dipping into our funds.
Over the Thanksgiving holidays we were horrified to find PayPal was able to withdraw over $500 from our bank account with only $5.00 in it, they also tried to keep billing our credit card. When I called to report the unauthorized activity I was told if I made a complaint they would restrict our account. I made the complaint with our bank and the police department. PayPal immediately suspended our account, but continued to send e-mail to our buyers and collect money from them.
Today I am informed the following:
Thank you for contacting PayPal.
We have completed a thorough investigation of your case and have denied your Unauthorized Account Use Claim.
Also, we have terminated your further use of PayPal. This termination is per PayPal's Terms of Use, Section V. Rights and Disclaimers of PayPal, number 4:
"Termination. PayPal, in its sole discretion, reserves the right to terminate this Agreement, access to its website, or access to Service without notice for any reason and at any time."
Your account will remain locked indefinitely, and we ask that you not attempt to open a duplicate account, as any additional accounts will be locked from use as well.
We thank you for your business with PayPal.
They have hurt us bad, not only taking the money that is not theirs, but trying to ruin our reputation with the credit card company and our bank. We will make good on all the customers that paid through PayPal, but we operate on a very small budget, most our funds going to the kids, and this hurts bad.
In all my years, and I'm over 60, I have never seen an unregulated business that can literally get away with anything they want and don't care who they hurt. I hope someone can shut them down and jail the owners.
[Editors note]
Have they no shame? Forgive them father, for they have sinned.
***Unauthorized account access issues are given high priority. I have even asked this user to contact me---no response. The account would be restricted and we would:
a) ask for an affidavit
b) police report
c) identification (to prove we are speaking to the correct party)
From: AOL User (12/7/01)
I accidentally sent an Ebay auction payment to the wrong email address, and realized by mistake the second I hit the send button. I immediately attempted the cancel the payment, however, the cancel button would not work. I emailed Paypal and told them the situation and spent the next 10 minutes or so attempting the to stop the payment. 24 hours later I received an email from Paypal saying they could not stop a payment that had already been received and that I needed to contact the recipient. I emailed them back and told them that there is no way that the payment could have been received 30 seconds after I sent it. I received no further emails from paypal. The recipient of the payment claims that he doesn't have a paypal account, nor has he ever used paypal or Ebay for that matter. Solve this one.
**Terms of use-misc. disclaimers-PayPal shall not be responsible for payments made to unintended Recipients or for payments made in incorrect amounts due to the input of incorrect information by Senders. This payment, if not received by the recipient, would be viewed as UNCLAIMED in their account***
- Oct 30, 2000
- 42,589
- 5
- 0
Damon
Good start - however
1) Simple explanations are best if possible.
2) Link to the original complaints would be easier than cut and paste. Your response gets somewhat obscurred by the original complaint.
Good start - however
1) Simple explanations are best if possible.
2) Link to the original complaints would be easier than cut and paste. Your response gets somewhat obscurred by the original complaint.
Hi,
I only grabbed certain ones because I can't cover some of the others...I grabbed a sampling of some of the issues, but these are simple explanations---with the terms of use attached.
Sent payment to wrong party-user error
Seller didn't send product and PayPal didn't refund money-per the Buyer Complaint Process terms
Account access issue-advised that we take these cases very seriously, and that there is a specific course of action that needs to be taken
I obviously can't view the records for these users. They do not indicate (in most cases):
a) name
b) email address on account (for example, if a JOHN SMITH posted, there would be no way for me to find the customer account)
I only grabbed certain ones because I can't cover some of the others...I grabbed a sampling of some of the issues, but these are simple explanations---with the terms of use attached.
Sent payment to wrong party-user error
Seller didn't send product and PayPal didn't refund money-per the Buyer Complaint Process terms
Account access issue-advised that we take these cases very seriously, and that there is a specific course of action that needs to be taken
I obviously can't view the records for these users. They do not indicate (in most cases):
a) name
b) email address on account (for example, if a JOHN SMITH posted, there would be no way for me to find the customer account)
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