Paying "fair share", and what does that mean to you?

[Argo]

So there are frequent comments on these boards about how some people don't pay fare share and need to pay more. I happen to fall into category of people that many (including president Obama) state should pay more taxes. These kinds of arguments tend to make me a little angry. Let me try to explain why:

Last year I paid 26% of my income to federal government. Read that number again, I am *NOT* in 26% tax bracket, 26% of my total income was given to the government. This doesn't account for my state's sales tax, which is 9%. The flat amount I paid is sufficient to sustain a family of 2 with decent quality of life.

And this number is there after a bunch of deductions, including 401k (I contributed close to the max), mortgage interest deduction, donations etc.

So can somebody please explain to me why I am not paying my fair share, and why my taxes need to go up.

P.S. And if there are some loopholes that apparently allow rich to not pay taxes, can somebody please point those out to me.

 

[nick1985]

You worked hard all your life to make a good wage. You arn't paying enough in taxes to support those who didn't try to make something of themselves.

You need to pay your fair share. Since the lessers' share is 0%, you only paying 26% is not enough to cover both you and said lesser.

Please pay more. Please pay your fair share.

Thanks

 

[classy]

Which fare we talking about, taxi or bus?

 

[theeedude]

So there are frequent comments on these boards about how some people don't pay fare share and need to pay more. I happen to fall into category of people that many (including president Obama) state should pay more taxes. These kinds of arguments tend to make me a little angry. Let me try to explain why:

Last year I paid 26% of my income to federal government. Read that number again, I am *NOT* in 26% tax bracket, 26% of my total income was given to the government. This doesn't account for my state's sales tax, which is 9%. The flat amount I paid is sufficient to sustain a family of 2 with decent quality of life.

And this number is there after a bunch of deductions, including 401k (I contributed close to the max), mortgage interest deduction, donations etc.

So can somebody please explain to me why I am not paying my fare share, and why my taxes need to go up.

P.S. And if there are some loopholes that apparently allow rich to not pay taxes, can somebody please point those out to me.

Doesn't sound that high. Does your life suck?

 

[Pens1566]

delete

 

[a777pilot]

Isn't there an old story about an ant and a grasshopper that is suppose to teach us a lesson?

 

[Lithium381]

You worked hard all your life to make a good wage. You arn't paying enough in taxes to support those who didn't try to make something of themselves.

You need to pay your fair share. Since the lessers' share is 0%, you only paying 26% is not enough to cover both you and said lesser.

Please pay more. Please pay your fair share.

Thanks

this. please pay more, others are suffering by the side of the road getting boozed up because you're not paying enough.

 

[ShawnD1]

So can somebody please explain to me why I am not paying my fare share, and why my taxes need to go up.

Usually people mean pay your share of taxes based on your share of controlled wealth. IIRC, the top 1% of the US has more money than the bottom 50%. It would then make sense that the top 1% pay more than the bottom 50%.

The exact numbers? I don't know. I'm jus' sayin'

 

[SilthDraeth]

So there are frequent comments on these boards about how some people don't pay fare share and need to pay more. I happen to fall into category of people that many (including president Obama) state should pay more taxes. These kinds of arguments tend to make me a little angry. Let me try to explain why:

Last year I paid 26% of my income to federal government. Read that number again, I am *NOT* in 26% tax bracket, 26% of my total income was given to the government. This doesn't account for my state's sales tax, which is 9%. The flat amount I paid is sufficient to sustain a family of 2 with decent quality of life.

And this number is there after a bunch of deductions, including 401k (I contributed close to the max), mortgage interest deduction, donations etc.

So can somebody please explain to me why I am not paying my fare share, and why my taxes need to go up.

P.S. And if there are some loopholes that apparently allow rich to not pay taxes, can somebody please point those out to me.

I agree that you definitely do pay your fair share.

I will go out on a limb here and state that I do not. There are varying reasons, but part of the reason I do not is the law doesn't require me to, which is BS. And I feel somewhat guilty about it, and would definitely vote for the changes to end my "hand outs" but I feel I am in the minority here.

At the best, when I was in the military, I still got "tax refunds" which is ironic considering military pay is basically tax money given to me, that I then pay taxes back to the government on, then the government refunds said taxes back to, plus a bonus because my military pay, for my family size, of 4, isn't sufficient, and EIC laws state I should get money back.

I can't even justify that no matter how I look at it.

Out of the military, the best job I had I made 40k a year. I lived a pretty decent quality of life. I had computers, internet, water, AC, heat, a decent house for my kids and wife to live in, and never wanted for food, or a vehicle. Sure I couldn't buy luxary items.

However, everything I could purchase was higher quality of life than I would guess 90% of the world has.

I payed taxes, but when filing my Federal, I once again received it all back, plus more than I payed. It was less than what I got in the military, since my income was greater, even though overall benefits where lower.

So, I firmly believe that federal tax needs to be payed by all citizens. I think the % could still be partially interest based, but maybe not.

If a person makes 10k a year, and pays 5%, then they pay $500 for the year, and that can be deducted from pay just as it is now.

If you make 100k a year, you pay 5k. If you make 1million a year, you pay 50k...

Obviously, it would need to be a little more in depth, but I believe if everyone payed, and not just those making more money, then a lot of problems would be solved.

For example, for my family unit size, to be required to pay federal income tax, I have to make 45k or more per year.

Just some thoughts, and personal experiences, and opinions.

 

[brencat]

So can somebody please explain to me why I am not paying my fare share, and why my taxes need to go up.

P.S. And if there are some loopholes that apparently allow rich to not pay taxes, can somebody please point those out to me.

Well, the most egregious loophole for me is the carried interest provision, which allows a senior hedge fund manager who is paid a percentage of the gains his fund attains above the benchmark to only pay the capital gains tax rate of 15% on that bonus money. And it could be millions of dollars in, that, if he were an attorney or someone else getting the same amount on a W2, would be paying ordinary income rates that top out at 35% above $250k.

It is a fact that the top 400 families in this country (earning on average $144 million per year) get over 72% of their income from investments, not W2 earned income. So they are likely paying no more than 15% effective tax rate on the investment portion of their income, and for those invested in munis, a lot lower percentage. I'm not sure we should be in the business of rewarding investors so generously compared with W2 earners and would like to see the capital gains tax raised to 25-28% so the investor class of society pays a higher effective tax rate.

I work on Wall St by the way and consider myself center-right from a political perspective. But I am growing more concerned over the undeniable concentration of wealth particularly among the top 0.1% of households in this country and having too low a capital gains tax rate is partly the problem here.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Do a little research and see what the tax on your income would be in any of the other top five industrialized nations would be. Complain all you like but the fact remains high income folks pretty much get a free ride in this country as opposed to other civilized nations.

Or perhaps you would prefer the US crumble under the weight of our debt then you could pay a much lower tax rate on 1/10 of your current income.

 

[Slew Foot]

Work harder, millions on welfare depend on you.

 

[Turin39789]

So there are frequent comments on these boards about how some people don't pay fare share and need to pay more. I happen to fall into category of people that many (including president Obama) state should pay more taxes.

...


And this number is there after a bunch of deductions, including 401k (I contributed close to the max), mortgage interest deduction, donations etc.

I very well may be wrong about this, but my understanding is that Obama wants to let the Bush tax cuts on individuals earning more than $250k expire. Are you telling me you make over $250k in income and did NOT max out your 401k?

 

[Phokus]

Paying your fair share means the top 400 taxpayers pay more than 16.6% effective tax rate. I have a higher effective tax rate than this and i make far less.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2010/02/17/a-look-at-the-tax-returns-of-the-top-400-taxpayers/

The really disgusting thing about this the fact that a good chunk of their incomes are just passive investments while most regular middle class folks are paying a higher tax rate WORKING.

The other disgusting thing is, shithead conservatives will rush to defend this regressive tax structure, is it any wonder this country is going down the toilet?

 

[Infohawk]

First of all, if you're only in the 26% bracket I question whether you're one of the people that people are saying need to pay more at this period of time. From what I've heard you need to be closer to $200,000 which would put you in the 30+ bracket. But maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

Second of all, most people tend to incorrectly think of themselves as islands. Humans are extremely social primates. Beyond that, almost everything you have is thanks to civilization. You could be the smartest guy in the world but if there was no civilization around you, you would be lucky if you had shelter and fire.

Who benefits more from civilization? You or a bum? I would say that you do. A bum could die, sure. But you could lose all your wealth, your job, your family and then die. You're paying to preserve those things. So when people talk about your fair share they're talking about people with more interests in society paying more.

 

[spidey07]

We simply MUST do something about the bottom 47% that don't pay federal income tax. Eliminate the earned income credit and raise their rates or eliminate deductions they can take. That would be them "paying their fair share", because absolutely nothing is flat out wrong.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

I agree that you definitely do pay your fair share.

I will go out on a limb here and state that I do not. There are varying reasons, but part of the reason I do not is the law doesn't require me to, which is BS. And I feel somewhat guilty about it, and would definitely vote for the changes to end my "hand outs" but I feel I am in the minority here.

At the best, when I was in the military, I still got "tax refunds" which is ironic considering military pay is basically tax money given to me, that I then pay taxes back to the government on, then the government refunds said taxes back to, plus a bonus because my military pay, for my family size, of 4, isn't sufficient, and EIC laws state I should get money back.

I can't even justify that no matter how I look at it.

Out of the military, the best job I had I made 40k a year. I lived a pretty decent quality of life. I had computers, internet, water, AC, heat, a decent house for my kids and wife to live in, and never wanted for food, or a vehicle. Sure I couldn't buy luxary items.

However, everything I could purchase was higher quality of life than I would guess 90% of the world has.

I payed taxes, but when filing my Federal, I once again received it all back, plus more than I payed. It was less than what I got in the military, since my income was greater, even though overall benefits where lower.

So, I firmly believe that federal tax needs to be payed by all citizens. I think the % could still be partially interest based, but maybe not.

If a person makes 10k a year, and pays 5%, then they pay $500 for the year, and that can be deducted from pay just as it is now.

If you make 100k a year, you pay 5k. If you make 1million a year, you pay 50k...

Obviously, it would need to be a little more in depth, but I believe if everyone payed, and not just those making more money, then a lot of problems would be solved.

For example, for my family unit size, to be required to pay federal income tax, I have to make 45k or more per year.

Just some thoughts, and personal experiences, and opinions.

if you are being 100% honest, i applaud you.
usually those who are benefiting from the system will not be willing to admit it.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Do a little research and see what the tax on your income would be in any of the other top five industrialized nations would be. Complain all you like but the fact remains high income folks pretty much get a free ride in this country as opposed to other civilized nations.

Or perhaps you would prefer the US crumble under the weight of our debt then you could pay a much lower tax rate on 1/10 of your current income.

until we can find a country that is identical to ours in every aspect, down to every problem we have, comparing tax rates to other countries is an exercise in futility.

 

[Attic]

We don't need a fair tax and we don't need a fair share tax.

We need a tax that works.

Life isn't fair, certainly it is not in the USA. Fair taxes is a relative term for most.

What I would like to see is better pay to a majority of lower/middle class Americans. A lot of these folks are being broken to build immense wealth for a few. How to achieve a better wealth distribution is difficult, but it should be the goal instead of a "fair" tax. Raising minimum wage is not a solution... there needs to be an incentive to pay decent wages to workers instead of incentive for their lowered wage (through current high unemployment for one thing).

 

[her209]

until we can find a country that is identical to ours in every aspect, down to every problem we have, comparing tax rates to other countries is an exercise in futility.

Does that extend to size of government?

 

[p0nd]

P.S. And if there are some loopholes that apparently allow rich to not pay taxes, can somebody please point those out to me.

I'm no expert but I know that a lot of the loopholes involve capital gains and investing. Like hedge fund managers pay a very low percent of taxes on their earnings, for example. Other loopholes are often for business/corporations.

 

[ProfJohn]

Paying your fair share means the top 400 taxpayers pay more than 16.6% effective tax rate. I have a higher effective tax rate than this and i make far less.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2010/02/17/a-look-at-the-tax-returns-of-the-top-400-taxpayers/

The really disgusting thing about this the fact that a good chunk of their incomes are just passive investments while most regular middle class folks are paying a higher tax rate WORKING.

The other disgusting thing is, shithead conservatives will rush to defend this regressive tax structure, is it any wonder this country is going down the toilet?

The bolded part is complete BS.

Don't fall for the lies and exaggerations.

The top 400 had an average effective income tax rate of 16%.

Here are the effective income tax rates by quintile for 2007
bottom 20% -6.8%
second 20% -0.4%
middle 20% 3.3%
fourth 20% 6.2%
top 20% 14.4%
top 10% 16.2%
top 5% 17.6%
top 1% 19%

As you can see even at 16% they are paying more of their income into income taxes than all but the top 10% of the country.

Close the loophole and make them pay at a higher rate. But don't pretend that middle class Americans are seeing more of their money go to taxes than the rich.

 

[theeedude]

The bolded part is complete BS.

Don't fall for the lies and exaggerations.

The top 400 had an average effective income tax rate of 16%.

Here are the effective income tax rates by quintile for 2007
bottom 20% -6.8%
second 20% -0.4%
middle 20% 3.3%
fourth 20% 6.2%
top 20% 14.4%
top 10% 16.2%
top 5% 17.6%
top 1% 19%

As you can see even at 16% they are paying more of their income into income taxes than all but the top 10% of the country.

Close the loophole and make them pay at a higher rate. But don't pretend that middle class Americans are seeing more of their money go to taxes than the rich.

The rich are rich because the middle class has money to spend.

 

[Argo]

First of all, if you're only in the 26% bracket I question whether you're one of the people that people are saying need to pay more at this period of time. From what I've heard you need to be closer to $200,000 which would put you in the 30+ bracket. But maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

Second of all, most people tend to incorrectly think of themselves as islands. Humans are extremely social primates. Beyond that, almost everything you have is thanks to civilization. You could be the smartest guy in the world but if there was no civilization around you, you would be lucky if you had shelter and fire.

Who benefits more from civilization? You or a bum? I would say that you do. A bum could die, sure. But you could lose all your wealth, your job, your family and then die. You're paying to preserve those things. So when people talk about your fair share they're talking about people with more interests in society paying more.

Read it one more time. I am not in 26% bracket, I pay 26% since the brackets are incremental.

Also, to another poster - yes, the tax increases proposed so far will affect me. Not a whole lot, but they still will. And yes, many are right - my income comes from W2 so it is *NOT* taxed at 15% rate. But then why are most tax increases being discussed mention increasing taxes on those making over 250k, rather than changing capital gains taxation?

 

[Infohawk]

Read it one more time. I am not in 26% bracket, I pay 26% since the brackets are incremental.

I had a typo. I'm saying if you only pay 26% you are not in the highest bracket and you are not who most people are talking about when they say you should pay more taxes.