Pay to play has to stop!

[BoberFett]

So both you guys are saying its a waste of time to even bother voting for people who want to reform the system because its impossible to change? Kind of defeatist attitudes don't you think?
People used to think it was impossible for man to walk on the moon but somehow we managed to do it. With very little computer power too which makes the achievement even greater. I am realistic enough to realize there will always be kick backs or sweet land deals or even job assignments. I do feel that unlimited funds=unlimited speech is not correct and generally a horrible idea for our country.

Yes, I believe it's a waste to vote for anybody who actually has a chance of winning because the winner is preselected to be a patsy.

I don't agree with everything Ron Paul says, but I thought he generally had the right idea about the dangers of government. He had no chance of winning and I was told I was wasting my vote, but I see all of those Hope and Change Obama-drones as a wasted vote. What exactly has he done to change the status quo? Nada.

 

[Arkaign]

Obama has only made things worse, to my sincere disappointment. His rhetoric pre-election was sometimes pretty good (not always). Transparency, reduced foreign involvements, etc. Of course that was bullshit, but whatever.

I agree that it's pretty much hopeless. It's the nature of greedy people to run something into the ground rather than make sacrifices to change it. In that way, our government is just like a ponzi scheme perpetrator, or any number of imploded businesses like Enron. Nothing is done for principle, liberty, the long view, it's all 'now, now, now, me, me, me'.

A future government 2.0 should have a sentient AI in charge, or full transparency at all times for the leaders even while they sleep. Take a bribe, get a bullet to their heads within the hour. And salaries should be tied directly to the average income of the country, minus the bottom and top 10%.

That's something REALLY important about income/wealth inequality that people don't realize. The absolutely insane wealth and income of the top dramatically skews the numbers. If you take out the top folks, we're actually doing pretty horribly as a country. Look at expenses, and it's even worse. That's why you have dual-income+ families with one parent working one job, the other parent working two jobs, with high school and some college, and they have zero savings and can't pay the bills in case of emergency, may not have health insurance, etc. A couple of generations ago a hardworking dad could own a home, buy a car, take care of several kids, and have savings as well, on a single income with a high school diploma and blood, sweat and tears at a decent job.

The massive social programs, the massive foreign entanglements, the massive military spending, the massive corruption, the massive prison-industrial complex, the massive continual pile of bullshit coming from DC is astonishing.

Believe in evil, and know that it exists. It exists in the greed, ignorance, and traitorous nature of virtually every politician we've had for at least 40 years.

 

[Moonbeam]

Yes, I believe it's a waste to vote for anybody who actually has a chance of winning because the winner is preselected to be a patsy.

I don't agree with everything Ron Paul says, but I thought he generally had the right idea about the dangers of government. He had no chance of winning and I was told I was wasting my vote, but I see all of those Hope and Change Obama-drones as a wasted vote. What exactly has he done to change the status quo? Nada.

You wasted your vote and I kept Phony Romney out. Until we have a constitutional convention to amend our system that's all that can be done. Lesser of two evils, shit or worse shit.

 

[MrPickins]

Wait, you're going to point a rich person who got a chance to speak in front of a congressional subcommittee as a victim of the system?

I think the point that Seth Rogen pointed out is that we're all victims of the system.

 

[bradly1101]

We don't know corruption, at all. Visit Italy, Spain, Russia, Romania, Greece, etc etc. Then get back with us.

The inside Washington game is all pay for play. We call it 'corporate lobbying'. I call it bribery.

 

[BoberFett]

I think the point that Seth Rogen pointed out is that we're all victims of the system.

Yes, the Hollywood elite are victims. I'm sure they're suffering greatly.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Time for some education. I hope you will explore this. Our founders gave us, the people, a means to amend the constitution under Article V. They knew the time would come when our government would cease to answer to anyone but themselves. They provided a method to restore the power where it was intended to be, with the people of the nation.

1. Congress can propose amendments to the Constitution at any time if 2/3 of both houses of Congress agree.
2. A Convention of States can propose amendments if 2/3 of states submit applications for such a convention. These applications must all deal with the same issue (i.e., limiting the power and jurisdiction of the federal government).
   
   http://conventionofstates.com/
   
   It's happening right now. Georgia has put their COS application through both houses. Nine other states have filed or pre-filed their applications.
   
   http://conventionofstates.com/progress-report
   
   We are not powerless unless we do nothing. There are groups in a huge majority of states working on this. The states themselves are anxious to restore their power, it having been stripped by the 17th amendment.

Oh, I know my Constitutional Law quite well. The question you glazed over is who can convene a Convention of States. Not you or I that is for certain. If we got together with 48 of our fellow citizens and told the Federal Government that we were a Convention of States and were going to create amendments to the constitution for the general public to vote on we would be ignored at best and thrown in jail with no due process for sedition at worst.
It is our duly elected representatives that can do such a thing, and none of them would ever dream of doing it. So once again, the only real power you have is to vote someone into an office you hope will do some good, which it won't because they have rigged the game so only the ones that are part of the problem can even be put on the ballot.

Really, what I would have liked was to see something like the Occupy Wall Street movement people try to claim that they were going to convene a Convention of States. Although the government would have probably just ignored it and the news would have made a joke out of it.

 

[werepossum]

So both you guys are saying its a waste of time to even bother voting for people who want to reform the system because its impossible to change? Kind of defeatist attitudes don't you think?
People used to think it was impossible for man to walk on the moon but somehow we managed to do it. With very little computer power too which makes the achievement even greater. I am realistic enough to realize there will always be kick backs or sweet land deals or even job assignments. I do feel that unlimited funds=unlimited speech is not correct and generally a horrible idea for our country.

Not at all a waste of time to vote, just a waste of time to attempt to remove the money from politics. Even assuming such a thing was possible and not in strict violation of human nature AND common sense, that would leave all power in the hands of the media and the parties. How is that an improvement? I realize the media largely shares your world view, but you'd be concentrating power even more so than today.

Yes, the Hollywood elite are victims. I'm sure they're suffering greatly.

LOL Very well paid victims.

It is highly amusing that Hollywood feels it is qualified to speak on virtually everything. (Actually, I think it's highly amusing that Hollywood feels it is qualified to speak on virtually anything, but that's a bit cold so I'll stick with the former.)

 

[boomerang]

Oh, I know my Constitutional Law quite well. The question you glazed over is who can convene a Convention of States. Not you or I that is for certain. If we got together with 48 of our fellow citizens and told the Federal Government that we were a Convention of States and were going to create amendments to the constitution for the general public to vote on we would be ignored at best and thrown in jail with no due process for sedition at worst.
It is our duly elected representatives that can do such a thing, and none of them would ever dream of doing it. So once again, the only real power you have is to vote someone into an office you hope will do some good, which it won't because they have rigged the game so only the ones that are part of the problem can even be put on the ballot.

I really don't know how to approach your post. As a person who is self-professed to have a lot of knowledge of the Constitution, your statement that only Congress can amend the Constitution you would have to know is at a minimum disingenuous.

I glossed over nothing. I left links there for people to learn on their own. I do my best to not preach to people because I find it a turn-off and I make the assumption that others do to. If people want to explore and learn more, they are free to do so.

Yes, you are correct that you and I cannot convene a Convention of States. The word 'states' is in there for a reason for that is where a Convention of States will originate. This is done by the people urging their state legislators, not federal legislators. Further, Georgia has already passed their COS application through both houses. Nine other states are in the process. I would suggest you click on the links I provided and learn more.

Article V

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.

 

[Darwin333]

Bober you have a great point but honestly no matter what your political views are having huge amounts of money in politics is a bad thing and I bet we all believe so. I will pledge to stay on my representatives to do something about it and if nothing is done I will vote for someone who does have a plan.

The next guy might genuinely want to get money out of politics right up until he gets a taste of said money. Not to mention the sheer amount of money that it takes to get elected/reelected. On one hand the "system" forces them to seek vast amounts of capital to get there in the first place and even more to remain there.

How many middle class folk who do very little or no fundraising are actually in Congress right now? How much did your critter and senator spend to get their seats the last election?

Even bigger, how do you get a fuckton of those mostly self serving assholes to vote something that will make themselves poorer or make it harder for them to remain in power?

 

[SMOGZINN]

I really don't know how to approach your post. As a person who is self-professed to have a lot of knowledge of the Constitution, your statement that only Congress can amend the Constitution you would have to know is at a minimum disingenuous.

I glossed over nothing. I left links there for people to learn on their own. I do my best to not preach to people because I find it a turn-off and I make the assumption that others do to. If people want to explore and learn more, they are free to do so.

Yes, you are correct that you and I cannot convene a Convention of States. The word 'states' is in there for a reason for that is where a Convention of States will originate. This is done by the people urging their state legislators, not federal legislators. Further, Georgia has already passed their COS application through both houses. Nine other states are in the process. I would suggest you click on the links I provided and learn more.

think you are misreading what I am writing. I never said only Congress can amend the Constitution, I said only those we vote for can amend the Constitution. My problem is that ever level of politician from local judges to the President is a part of the same corrupt system that created this problem in the first place.

 

[boomerang]

think you are misreading what I am writing. I never said only Congress can amend the Constitution, I said only those we vote for can amend the Constitution. My problem is that ever level of politician from local judges to the President is a part of the same corrupt system that created this problem in the first place.

OK, sorry for my misunderstanding and I fully understand with what you're saying and agree with you. And, I understand your confusion because I used the word people in the wrong context. I guess I felt that local reps would be more amenable to listening to their constituents and I think it's being proved out. (See my edit at the bottom.)

But having said that, the beauty of this is that it's initiated at the state level. The states have been stripped of a ton of power through the decades and I feel are itching for a restoration. It's a huge issue to them to regain power. The burden imposed on the states by Obamacare is one example of the type of thing state legislators would love to fight back against.

I'm as capable of negative thinking as one can get. I hold out great hope for this. The other option to reign in the federal government will be messy.

Edit: I see that since I originally posted about this on 3/1 Missouri representatives have now filed a COS application. That makes one state that has passed theirs and 10 in the works.

http://conventionofstates.com/news/missouri-representatives-file-cos-application

 

[Moonbeam]

Somebody from California was arrested for screaming at the Supreme Court building that money isn't speech and corporations aren't people. If millions would do this we might get some action. Bury them in bodies.

 

[SMOGZINN]

OK, sorry for my misunderstanding and I fully understand with what you're saying and agree with you. And, I understand your confusion because I used the word people in the wrong context. I guess I felt that local reps would be more amenable to listening to their constituents and I think it's being proved out. (See my edit at the bottom.)

I agree, I think that the smaller the size of the constituency the more amenable the politician. I think the real problem is with the parties. I think they have become so corrupt that they literally select for corruption.

The burden imposed on the states by Obamacare is one example of the type of thing state legislators would love to fight back against.

While I agree in principle, and think that most state legislators would like to balance the power back in the states favor and make the 10th amendment meaningful again, I think that almost all state politicians are members of the party first and members of their state second. The Parties demand that if you have any ambition of even keeping the job you have much less moving up to national politics. Party politics poison everything they touch.

I'm as capable of negative thinking as one can get. I hold out great hope for this. The other option to reign in the federal government will be messy.

I agree, and I try to remain hopeful. It is just hard to trust the system when I see every day just how badly it fails.

 

[momeNt]

The human race has evolved past authoritarian governance. Fix the actual problem.

Land of the free, remember?