Pay More, Get Less

Nov 17, 2019
10,668
6,389
136
In 2010, I used 9,504 Kilowatthours of electricity and I paid $666.74

In 2022, I used 5,035 Kilowatthours of electricity and I paid $913.97


There oughta be a law!!!
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
94,661
14,928
126
I used 637 KWh, and only paid $100.21 ($0.1109 per KWh + about $25 in fees.). How are you using so much electricity? I have gas heat, but water heater, dryer, and oven are all electric. Rates must be horrible too.

you only used 637kwh in a YEAR?
 
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Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,194
12,025
126
www.anyf.ca
It's just inflation! Or like I call it here in Canada, justinflation. Our money goes less and less further every year. It's been a problem for probably at least a century so not really Trudeau's fault but it's been getting worse over the past few years and he sure as hell ain't helping! Sadly not enough people seem to really care enough to want to fight against it or vote the right people in. It's not 100% politic driven but there are policy changes such as lower taxes, less spending and less money printing that could help at least. It's basically a hidden tax really. Even "normal" 2% inflation is not any different than if they raised the sales tax by 2% every year.

Even if you are good at investing it still means that your investments are not as good as they could be. Say you invested money in 2010 and got a 2x return in 2020, that money won't really go that much further than it would have in 2010.

Now days the best investment you can make is a way to save money. Solar panels, wood stove, or even going as drastic as moving, to a place with less property taxes, or off grid altogether, etc.
 
Jul 27, 2020
15,738
9,807
106
It's not 100% politic driven but there are policy changes such as lower taxes, less spending and less money printing that could help at least.
Taxing the rich (the multimillionaires) for their stupid luxuries. No income tax but every time they wanna show the world how rich they are by buying something stupid or uncommon that they REALLY could live without, tax their butts off!
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,194
12,025
126
www.anyf.ca
Taxing the rich (the multimillionaires) for their stupid luxuries. No income tax but every time they wanna show the world how rich they are by buying something stupid or uncommon that they REALLY could live without, tax their butts off!

Or at very least, tax them at the same rate we pay. Most rich people pay very little tax due to all the loopholes etc. Trump for example pays less than $1,000 in taxes per year. I pay more than that in a month. Not sure what good it would do as far as inflation goes though, but yes they should have to pay their share like the rest of us. though taxes need to be lower overall, we pay too much in general. Property, income, sales, carbon, some places even have inheritance tax etc... all these taxes really add up.
 
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NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,033
545
126
More taxes have yet to fix anything...

I'm not rich but I vote against EVERY tax I can. Just more money for the government to waste.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,004
19,442
136
More taxes have yet to fix anything...

I'm not rich but I vote against EVERY tax I can. Just more money for the government to waste.
You have a well nuanced argument there. Brilliant.

Meanwhile many countries in europe show what can be done with taxes and organization and creating amazing transit systems, clean countries, good social safety nets, free education.

Maybe you should expand your horizon beyond just your tiny little patch of grass.
 

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,033
545
126
Nope. Sorry. Living in California I (along with everyone else) pays plenty of taxes.

Want more nuance? I work in the defense industry. So if government spending was truly curtailed I'd most likey be out of a job.

Anyway, enough P&N for this thread. I'll stop.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,004
19,442
136
Nope. Sorry. Living in California I (along with everyone else) pays plenty of taxes.

Want more nuance? I work in the defense industry. So if government spending was truly curtailed I'd most likey be out of a job.

Anyway, enough P&N for this thread. I'll stop.
Yeah we should definitely cut defense spending significantly, put that all towards education, affordable housing, transit and healthcare.
 

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,033
545
126
Money in education is useless if parents don't give an F. If the parents don't care, 95% of the time the kids don't care.
 
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sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
94,661
14,928
126
You pay a carbon tax? Personally?

Or is this just more conservative fear-mongering on your part?

Canada does have a carbon tax but most people should be getting more money back than they pay on carbon tax.


 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,004
19,442
136
Money in education is useless if parents don't give an F. If the parents don't care, 95% of the time the kids don't care.
Actually you just made the primary reason for good public education.

Nobody expects society of perfect parents or mostly great parents. People are going to come from economically depressed households, from uneducated families, from families with problems - thus providing a solid public education for kids to have 5 days a week for most of the year is even more important. Even more reason they need a positive environment to go to.

Your argument seems to be well they're not going to have the greatest motivation at home so let's not give them any anywhere else. That makes no sense.

An educated society is a better society, full stop.
 

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,033
545
126
But see this issue isn't being able to provide a quality education. If there's no value placed on education outside of the classroom then the kids don't care. If the kids don't care there's almost nothing a teacher can do to convince them otherwise.
Los Angeles has the 2nd largest school district in the nation. I have nothing but positive things to say about it. But guess what, my peers also had parents that valued education which makes the teachers infinitely more effective. We all wanted to learn.
If a (vast?) majority of the students aren't interested learning the ones that are have a huge disadvantage.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,194
12,025
126
www.anyf.ca
You pay a carbon tax? Personally?

Or is this just more conservative fear-mongering on your part?

It's on utility bills and goes up each year on top of the other taxes, and the overall bill itself, so it all adds up. Companies pay it too, and pass the cost down to the consumer. Natural gas bill alone doubled in 2022 from 2021. Gas for car is also much higher. Groceries are higher, pretty much anything that is transported on a semi or involves fossil fuel in some way is more expensive. (aka: everything) Overall costs of living are still way higher and the little $100 rebate does not make up for it. Carbon tax is not 100% to blame but it is one of the factors.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,004
19,442
136
But see this issue isn't being able to provide a quality education. If there's no value placed on education outside of the classroom then the kids don't care. If the kids don't care there's almost nothing a teacher can do to convince them otherwise.
Los Angeles has the 2nd largest school district in the nation. I have nothing but positive things to say about it. But guess what, my peers also had parents that valued education which makes the teachers infinitely more effective. We all wanted to learn.
If a (vast?) majority of the students aren't interested learning the ones that are have a huge disadvantage.
You think there is no value placed on education outside the classroom?

Just by existing in society for the last 47 years I can tell you the importance of education has been everywhere including well outside the four walls of the home I was growing up in. And well outside just the four walls of my classrooms. Society places big importance on public education, overall. Except for today's conservatives but that's why we need to fight even harder. Because most people do appreciate the value of education. You are completely wrong.

You really think the only place education matters is inside classroom walls?

Again your argument is still if kids aren't getting great motivation from their immediate family then we shouldn't provide them with a positive learning environment outside of the home.

That's extremely self-defeating and if we listen to people like you back in a day our society would never have evolved. Education is progress.

The military is important however education is way way way way more important than overspending on the military like our bloated budget does. That needs to be cut by hundreds of billions of dollars.
 
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NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,033
545
126
By the parents. If you grow up in the a "working class" neighborhood, the emphasis is on putting food on the table. No time for education

My point is it starts with the parents. The teachers can try all they like. No amount of funding can fix that. That is my point.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
62,678
11,018
136
One of our last years in CA, the city was hammering everyone to conserve water...so people stopped using so much water. All of a sudden, revenues were down because...SURPRISE! people weren't using and paying for as much water...so the city jacked up the rates to make up the difference.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,004
19,442
136
By the parents. If you grow up in the a "working class" neighborhood, the emphasis is on putting food on the table. No time for education

My point is it starts with the parents. The teachers can try all they like. No amount of funding can fix that. That is my point.

Except you are wrong. This society only evolved from a much more working class society to a much more wealthy nation due to education. How do you ignore the last 150 years of history? We literally became a far more advanced society (in many ways) technologically and with wealth because children came from working class neighborhoods and most learned due to public education. I'm also amazed you think all working class parents don't want their kids to to better off than they. That's literally the driving force for so many. How can you keep ignoring reality like this?

And again your argument is if children aren't getting the best environment at home for education, then why bother giving them any positive learning environment at all. That is just nonsense. And you keep tripling down on it. Bigly sad.

I'm sorry if you might lose your job in the very bloated defense industry if we cut hundreds of billions of waste from the military. Maybe you could find a job in education since we could invest in that more. Or infrastructure.
 

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,033
545
126
Huh? I didn't once advocate for defense funding. Nor did I advocate for cutting funding for education.

My main argument is continuing to throw money at any societal issue won't solve anything.

Don't get me started on the "everyone needs to go to college" BS.
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,567
2,626
136
By the parents. If you grow up in the a "working class" neighborhood, the emphasis is on putting food on the table. No time for education

My point is it starts with the parents. The teachers can try all they like. No amount of funding can fix that. That is my point.
I would say it depends on characteristics of the parents. As in, whether parents value education and then enforce and pressure the child into complying with studying. As someone who grew up in an Asian household, the stereotype of valuing education and going burning hot when you don't get the results is there, but my mother was rather a mild and forgiving tiger.

Things do vary among ethnic lines. Asians, I can speak personally to.

But other low income folks would rather lapse into vices, such as drinking or drugs. What children then develop is a more wily for of intelligence, and more predatory. A "systemic intelligence" where they know enforcers lack power and they can exploit things.
In addition, the parents are also wily legal predators. Knowing the systemic legal presumptions they prey on others by intentionally creating a damaged state and then cry victim; this is present in housing especially.

Indeed certain good schools might very well be the result of education obsessive parents selecting the schools to begin with.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,194
12,025
126
www.anyf.ca
One of our last years in CA, the city was hammering everyone to conserve water...so people stopped using so much water. All of a sudden, revenues were down because...SURPRISE! people weren't using and paying for as much water...so the city jacked up the rates to make up the difference.

In my city it's flat rate so there's not even an incentive to save. Goes up by around $5-10/mo every year. That's on top of the tax increases as the water is a totally separate charge. It's sometimes tempting to experiment with using it to run a turbine to make electricity and just leaving it on 24/7. May as well get my money's worth! I'd feel so wasteful doing that though.