"Paving Paradise"

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
81
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Texas_Corridor

http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2008/tst020308.htm

The Constitution guarantees Americans the right to be secure against all unreasonable seizures. My home state of Texas is unfortunately planning on some very unreasonable seizures of land with the monstrous Trans Texas Corridor highway project. The TTC plans call for a highway to cut through about 4,000 Texas miles, and with separate rail lines for passenger and freight, a multi-lane highway with separate truck lanes, utility and cable easements, this highway could be as wide as 1200 feet across. In the end this project would consume something like half a million acres of land in Texas . However, since the exact path of the road has not been determined, it is putting much more acreage in jeopardy, and in limbo.

Taking land is destructive enough. But the perpetual threat of taking an undetermined amount of land is hanging over the heads of millions of Texans and putting their lives at a standstill. Land is a store of wealth and a source of stability. This highway project is tragically threatening that for so many Texans.

The principle of private property is the cornerstone to a free and prosperous society. In situations where a colossal government land grab is a distinct possibility, investment or improvement becomes more risky with an uncertain future and tends not to happen. How do you sell land that may or may not be taken by the government at some point in the not too distant future? Who would buy it? How do you cultivate or build on, or even near, land that may or may not be paved over and turned into a massive, noisy thoroughfare in a few years?

Even more insulting is the distinct possibility that, while the road will collect tolls and fees, making a private foreign firm billions of dollars in revenue, the costs of building it could be heavily borne by taxpayers. So the costs will be socialized and the profits privatized. Public-private partnership indeed!

From Washington I have voiced my staunch disapproval of taking these hard-working taxpayers? land for a private toll road, by introducing legislation (HR 5191) that simply states, ?No Federal funds appropriated or made available before, on, or after the date of enactment of this Act may be used by a unit of Federal, State, or local government to carry out the highway project known as the 'Trans-Texas Corridor'.? I am working hard in Congress to make sure that no Federal funding is used to undermine property rights in this way.

We should be focusing on guarding and securing our borders for the protection of the American people. Instead we are paving the way for more and more people to cross the border as comfortably as possible. And taking the family farm to do it. It is an absolute outrage.


Just another "shining" example of what this country has become. People put up with it, but for how long? How much longer will we as a people allow the blatant destruction of our rights and liberties? Ironically, someday, those brave enough to fight back will be declared as people who want to destroy America by the very same people who are actually doing just that right now.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,549
1,130
126
Originally posted by: bamacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Texas_Corridor

http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2008/tst020308.htm

The Constitution guarantees Americans the right to be secure against all unreasonable seizures. My home state of Texas is unfortunately planning on some very unreasonable seizures of land with the monstrous Trans Texas Corridor highway project. The TTC plans call for a highway to cut through about 4,000 Texas miles, and with separate rail lines for passenger and freight, a multi-lane highway with separate truck lanes, utility and cable easements, this highway could be as wide as 1200 feet across. In the end this project would consume something like half a million acres of land in Texas . However, since the exact path of the road has not been determined, it is putting much more acreage in jeopardy, and in limbo.

Taking land is destructive enough. But the perpetual threat of taking an undetermined amount of land is hanging over the heads of millions of Texans and putting their lives at a standstill. Land is a store of wealth and a source of stability. This highway project is tragically threatening that for so many Texans.

The principle of private property is the cornerstone to a free and prosperous society. In situations where a colossal government land grab is a distinct possibility, investment or improvement becomes more risky with an uncertain future and tends not to happen. How do you sell land that may or may not be taken by the government at some point in the not too distant future? Who would buy it? How do you cultivate or build on, or even near, land that may or may not be paved over and turned into a massive, noisy thoroughfare in a few years?

Even more insulting is the distinct possibility that, while the road will collect tolls and fees, making a private foreign firm billions of dollars in revenue, the costs of building it could be heavily borne by taxpayers. So the costs will be socialized and the profits privatized. Public-private partnership indeed!

From Washington I have voiced my staunch disapproval of taking these hard-working taxpayers? land for a private toll road, by introducing legislation (HR 5191) that simply states, ?No Federal funds appropriated or made available before, on, or after the date of enactment of this Act may be used by a unit of Federal, State, or local government to carry out the highway project known as the 'Trans-Texas Corridor'.? I am working hard in Congress to make sure that no Federal funding is used to undermine property rights in this way.

We should be focusing on guarding and securing our borders for the protection of the American people. Instead we are paving the way for more and more people to cross the border as comfortably as possible. And taking the family farm to do it. It is an absolute outrage.


Just another "shining" example of what this country has become. People put up with it, but for how long? How much longer will we as a people allow the blatant destruction of our rights and liberties? Ironically, someday, those brave enough to fight back will be declared as people who want to destroy America by the very same people who are actually doing just that right now.

What Ron Paul fails to realize, Pretty Boy Perry's/Slick Rick's/The Hair's/whatever you want to call Rick Perry, plan doesnt use Federal monies. It uses private money. He also failed to recall the Supreme Court ruled on eminent domain last year. In that case it was about whether economic development = for the public good. They ruled yes. Highways and infrastructure have always been ruled valid by the Supreme Court inregards to eminent domain.

That said I do not support the plan, most Texans do not. The Texas GOP does not. Its all pretty much Perry and his power grab over the past 6 years. Most Texans have a great amount if disdain for Perry. If it wasn't for his financial backers and a 4 way race he wouldnt have been re-elected.

TTC is a long ways from being realized and with TxDOT strapped for cash its going to be a long time before its ever completed. Hell the freeway in Lubbock, TX has been in the planning since 1985, and isnt expected to be finished for another couple or more years. Honestly, I don't see the TTC getting under way within the next two years. The next Gov of Texas will kill the plan.

Also I must add. Welcome to 4+ years ago. Way to keep up with the news in your home state Ron Paul. He also misleds a bit on why the TTC is being considered/made. Anyone that drives the I35 corridor on any sort of a regular basis knows, traffic is a problem and is only getting worse.
 

BrownTown

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2005
5,314
1
0
I don't know anything about this particular project, but roads and electric lines are the classic examples of eminent domain, certainly the government has the right to do this, and they do it every year all over this country. I know working for TVA people always moaned about new power lines being built on their land, but every single one that tried to stop them failed, the government can take you land for these sorts of things. Whether you like it or not it is just reality and is not even controversial these days.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,549
1,130
126
Originally posted by: BrownTown
I don't know anything about this particular project, but roads and electric lines are the classic examples of eminent domain, certainly the government has the right to do this, and they do it every year all over this country. I know working for TVA people always moaned about new power lines being built on their land, but every single one that tried to stop them failed, the government can take you land for these sorts of things. Whether you like it or not it is just reality and is not even controversial these days.

There are many many flaws with the TTC.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,402
8,574
126
frankly i'd like high speed rail links between texas cities (damn you swa) and north-south freight trunk lines to get 18 wheelers off the road. a bypass for north-south traffic around houston is sorely needed as well.
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,591
87
91
www.bing.com
Originally posted by: BrownTown
I don't know anything about this particular project, but roads and electric lines are the classic examples of eminent domain, certainly the government has the right to do this, and they do it every year all over this country. I know working for TVA people always moaned about new power lines being built on their land, but every single one that tried to stop them failed, the government can take you land for these sorts of things. Whether you like it or not it is just reality and is not even controversial these days.
Unless your name is Ted Kennedy, in which case you can make the govt move said lines far enough way from your home that you cant even see them. Dont want to messin up the view!

 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
This country is woefully under infrastructured in regards to transport now and could do with an update. I am not familiar with this particular case and if people are being treated especially badly, but within reason a government and at a fair market value (not $5M for some piece of crap land that's been in the family kind of nonsense) or above fair market in fact, should be able to purchase land and make reasonable efforts to accomodate. Reasonable would not include a personal tunnel under a freeway to join to pieces of land split in half, for instance, but one way or the other people should not be economically worse off after such a project.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,823
6,780
126
I would build a nuclear drilling machine that melts the earth and fuses it in a tube. I would vacuumize it and run that under ground all over the US and run freight and traffic through it by solar powered maglev. Quit fucking around and do something big.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I would build a nuclear drilling machine that melts the earth and fuses it in a tube. I would vacuumize it and run that under ground all over the US and run freight and traffic through it by solar powered maglev. Quit fucking around and do something big.
I honestly would not mind an increase in taxes with a big decrease in spending elsewhere and an absolute freaking insane amount of trillions thrown at some gargantuan transport system. The US could bring in millions and millions of south americans and chinese to help work on it, too. The US hasn't done anything big (besides big explosions) in so long. It's time to get back the pizzaz and show the world it can still make big, really laborious things.

 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,823
6,780
126
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I would build a nuclear drilling machine that melts the earth and fuses it in a tube. I would vacuumize it and run that under ground all over the US and run freight and traffic through it by solar powered maglev. Quit fucking around and do something big.
I honestly would not mind an increase in taxes with a big decrease in spending elsewhere and an absolute freaking insane amount of trillions thrown at some gargantuan transport system. The US could bring in millions and millions of south americans and chinese to help work on it, too. The US hasn't done anything big (besides big explosions) in so long. It's time to get back the pizzaz and show the world it can still make big, really laborious things.

Imagine a world without roads and few fences where you could ride a horse anywhere, green grass and kids playing, where now there are streets, and any place in the country just hours away.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,549
1,130
126
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I would build a nuclear drilling machine that melts the earth and fuses it in a tube. I would vacuumize it and run that under ground all over the US and run freight and traffic through it by solar powered maglev. Quit fucking around and do something big.

The commuter rails being proposed are high speed rail. Its to connect Dallas, Austin, and Houston.
 

Mavtek3100

Senior member
Jan 15, 2008
524
0
0
Funny Wreckem I was just at a Townhall with State Senator Carona who happens to be on the Texas Transportation commission and he flat out said that many funds are being apportioned to TTC projects. That and he said transportation funds are being funneled to projects that they weren't aware of. He also said that Perry refuses to take TTC off the table. The state continues to vote down the TTC, but if we don't stay weary of it, it could come through without even a vote in the Legislature. Especially if we can't get our transportation funds in order and ASAP.

BTW the current TTC proposal asks for $80 billion in tax dollars.
 
Apr 17, 2003
37,622
0
76
Originally posted by: bamacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Texas_Corridor

http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2008/tst020308.htm

The Constitution guarantees Americans the right to be secure against all unreasonable seizures. My home state of Texas is unfortunately planning on some very unreasonable seizures of land with the monstrous Trans Texas Corridor highway project. The TTC plans call for a highway to cut through about 4,000 Texas miles, and with separate rail lines for passenger and freight, a multi-lane highway with separate truck lanes, utility and cable easements, this highway could be as wide as 1200 feet across. In the end this project would consume something like half a million acres of land in Texas . However, since the exact path of the road has not been determined, it is putting much more acreage in jeopardy, and in limbo.

Taking land is destructive enough. But the perpetual threat of taking an undetermined amount of land is hanging over the heads of millions of Texans and putting their lives at a standstill. Land is a store of wealth and a source of stability. This highway project is tragically threatening that for so many Texans.

The principle of private property is the cornerstone to a free and prosperous society. In situations where a colossal government land grab is a distinct possibility, investment or improvement becomes more risky with an uncertain future and tends not to happen. How do you sell land that may or may not be taken by the government at some point in the not too distant future? Who would buy it? How do you cultivate or build on, or even near, land that may or may not be paved over and turned into a massive, noisy thoroughfare in a few years?

Even more insulting is the distinct possibility that, while the road will collect tolls and fees, making a private foreign firm billions of dollars in revenue, the costs of building it could be heavily borne by taxpayers. So the costs will be socialized and the profits privatized. Public-private partnership indeed!

From Washington I have voiced my staunch disapproval of taking these hard-working taxpayers? land for a private toll road, by introducing legislation (HR 5191) that simply states, ?No Federal funds appropriated or made available before, on, or after the date of enactment of this Act may be used by a unit of Federal, State, or local government to carry out the highway project known as the 'Trans-Texas Corridor'.? I am working hard in Congress to make sure that no Federal funding is used to undermine property rights in this way.

We should be focusing on guarding and securing our borders for the protection of the American people. Instead we are paving the way for more and more people to cross the border as comfortably as possible. And taking the family farm to do it. It is an absolute outrage.


Just another "shining" example of what this country has become. People put up with it, but for how long? How much longer will we as a people allow the blatant destruction of our rights and liberties? Ironically, someday, those brave enough to fight back will be declared as people who want to destroy America by the very same people who are actually doing just that right now.

I don't understand. This seems perfectly constitutional to me under the takings clause of the 5th amendment, no?
 

BrownTown

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2005
5,314
1
0
Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
I don't understand. This seems perfectly constitutional to me under the takings clause of the 5th amendment, no?

Well thats exactly what I would expect a Corporate Thug to say :p
 
Apr 17, 2003
37,622
0
76
Originally posted by: BrownTown
Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
I don't understand. This seems perfectly constitutional to me under the takings clause of the 5th amendment, no?

Well thats exactly what I would expect a b]Corporate Thug[/b] to say :p

I'm not trying to hide my biases. I am in favor of Big-law and some of big-law's most lucrative clientèle are multi million dollar corporations. But that doesn't change that fact that this falls directly under the takings clause, does it not?
 

BrownTown

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2005
5,314
1
0
Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
Originally posted by: BrownTown
Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
I don't understand. This seems perfectly constitutional to me under the takings clause of the 5th amendment, no?

Well thats exactly what I would expect a Corporate Thug to say :p

I'm not trying to hide my biases. I am in favor of Big-law and some of big-law's most lucrative clientèle are multi million dollar corporations. But that doesn't change that fact that this falls directly under the takings clause, does it not?

I was just joking. But as for supporting "big law", thats a pretty bold statement to make, the only people I can think of who might be more hated in this day and age are "big oil".
 
Apr 17, 2003
37,622
0
76
Originally posted by: BrownTown
Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
Originally posted by: BrownTown
Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
I don't understand. This seems perfectly constitutional to me under the takings clause of the 5th amendment, no?

Well thats exactly what I would expect a Corporate Thug to say :p

I'm not trying to hide my biases. I am in favor of Big-law and some of big-law's most lucrative clientèle are multi million dollar corporations. But that doesn't change that fact that this falls directly under the takings clause, does it not?

I was just joking. But as for supporting "big law", thats a pretty bold statement to make, the only people I can think of who might be more hated in this day and age are "big oil".

well, I have limited experience with big law but all the people I have worked with are very intelligent, incredibly hard working, and are able to bill an incredible amount of hours. I can understand why they are hated...their job is to bill, bill, bill and then bill some more. But that's the name of the game. Don't hate the player...;)

 

BrownTown

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2005
5,314
1
0
Originally posted by: Corporate Thug

well, I have limited experience with big law but all the people I have worked with are very intelligent, incredibly hard working, and are able to bill an incredible amount of hours. I can understand why they are hated...their job is to bill, bill, bill and then bill some more. But that's the name of the game. Don't hate the player...;)

LOL, I probably shouldn't even go here, but yeah thats EXACTLY what I would expect people at a big law firm to do. But the reason people don't like them isn't how hard they work or how much money they make its HOW they make that money, given the number of frivolous lawsuits and such these days alot of people see big time lawyers as taking advantage of the system to pad their pockets while simultaneously screwing innocent people out of money. There is a good article outside one of my professors door which reads "Fortune 500 companies spend more money on lawyers than on engineering departments". I guess thats not really surprising to many people, but the fact that more money is spent suing people over problems than is actually spent solving problems is kind of sad imo.

EDIT: and of course the lawyers representing big companies are sort of hated for the other reason, the general perception there is that instead of winning frivolous lawsuits that many of them intentionally block lawsuits with good merit, for example drawing lawsuits out for years to try to bankrupt the innocent person brining suit against them etc..