Paul Ryan's Budget, is this true?

[Fern]

So by then all you can do is just stand by and watch as Medicare is turned into a voucher program. No thanks.

Well then, by all means jump right in and study the sh!t outta that focker. Would hate to see it zip right by you with the lightening fast speed that the 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013 budgets were passed.

Fern

 

[Bitek]

I haven't been following politics for a while because these days all I hear is breaking news about flight MH370.

I received an email today from DNC HQ (whoever that is) that talks about Ryan's budget. This person wants me to sign a petition against Ryan's budget. Since I can't verify the claims contained in the email, I would like the experts on this forum to weigh in and let me know if the following content from the email is truthful:

Paul Ryan Budget

-Repeal Obamacare (kicking millions of people off their new plans)
-Turn Medicare into a voucher program
-Raise taxes on middle-class families with children by an average of $2000
-Give a huge tax break to the wealthiest Americans
-Devastating cuts to:
-education
-medical research
-public works
-job training
-food stamps

On a high level, its accurate.

The crux of Ryan's various budgets have been to:

-severely cut domestic discretionary spending, you know the 15% of the national budget that isn't SS, medicare, military or interest payments, in the near and long term.
-Increase military spending
-privatize medicare
-huge tax cuts and close "tax breaks/loopholes". Mostly benefiting businesses and the wealthy
-do all this and magically balance the budget

How? How does the numbers balance? Well..... liberal uses of magic asterisks

The loopholes are tax breaks that the middle class uses and cost quite a lot. Ie the mortgage interest deduction. He doesn't have the nuts to say it, but his numbers bank it

Assumptions (not at all supported/proven) that the new tax structure will lead to explosive growth, ridiculously low unemployment ~3%, and massive tax receipts. Basically the same crap we've been hearing since Reagan.
Lots of other details and horrors there, but thats the meat of it.

The real questions are: if its DOA, why does he keep putting it out there? And why won't conservatives be honest about agreeing in principal with it?

They've passed it in the house twice now. I agree it's not going anywhere as these details are deeply unpopular, and benefits easily disputed by economists but it's basically the only idea they are running with.

 

[Fern]

-snip-
The real questions are: if its DOA, why does he keep putting it out there? And why won't conservatives be honest about agreeing in principal with it?

They've passed it in the house twice now. I agree it's not going anywhere as these details are deeply unpopular, and benefits easily disputed by economists but it's basically the only idea they are running with.

Politics.

The Repubs know it won't pass in the Senate so they can safely vote for it knowing the cuts will never happen. Then they get to run home to their districts and claim they voted for spending cuts and a balanced budget and claim it's all Dems fault.

Pretty transparent game IMO.

This is why we don't see huge cuts when the repubs are in control.

Edit: As regards Ryan, I think he drinks his own Kool-Aid. I.e., he sincerely believes those are good things, will benefit us and that we should do those things. I suppose I'm actual giving credit to a politician for being sincere.

Fern

 

[Incorruptible]

So by then all you can do is just stand by and watch as Medicare is turned into a voucher program. No thanks.

Government should be out of healthcare and medicare should be cut but it won't happen because of too many big government supporters.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Well then, by all means jump right in and study the sh!t outta that focker. Would hate to see it zip right by you with the lightening fast speed that the 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013 budgets were passed.

Fern

Don't act like if the last election had gone the other way this stuff wouldn't just be gleam in Ryan's eye. And a probably not-so-insignificant reason it didn't go that way was Ryan's previous budget. This guy has very consistent goals and ambitions.

 

[ivwshane]

For instance, here's the line from the budget that this comes from:



So whether the DNC is being truthful or not depends on whether you believe the various job training programs are redundant and wasteful, or not. There isn't a clear-cut "this is evil" statement on job training.





Is there ever a time you don't feel the need to resort to childish insults to "win" an online argument?

Lol! Win an argument? Wtf are you talking about? I responded to a troll and somehow you get butt hurt about it? Give me a break!

 

[theeedude]

I haven't been following politics for a while because these days all I hear is breaking news about flight MH370.

I received an email today from DNC HQ (whoever that is) that talks about Ryan's budget. This person wants me to sign a petition against Ryan's budget. Since I can't verify the claims contained in the email, I would like the experts on this forum to weigh in and let me know if the following content from the email is truthful:

Paul Ryan Budget

-Repeal Obamacare (kicking millions of people off their new plans)
-Turn Medicare into a voucher program
-Raise taxes on middle-class families with children by an average of $2000
-Give a huge tax break to the wealthiest Americans
-Devastating cuts to:
-education
-medical research
-public works
-job training
-food stamps

Pretty much.

But does the usual Republican song and dance and renames politically unpopular terms to more ambiguous synonyms:

"voucher" -> "premium support"
"raise taxes on working Americans to give huge tax breaks to the wealthy" -> "simplify the tax code"
"devastating cuts to..." -> "strengthen ..." by handing it over to the cash strapped states and making it their problem.
You can read for yourself:
http://budget.house.gov/uploadedfiles/FY15_Blueprint.pdf

 

[cubby1223]

Lol! Win an argument? Wtf are you talking about? I responded to a troll and somehow you get butt hurt about it? Give me a break!

And you respond with more childish language.

 

[master_shake_]

Government should be out of healthcare and medicare should be cut but it won't happen because of too many big government supporters.

why?

got a reason?

 

[Fern]

Don't act like if the last election had gone the other way this stuff wouldn't just be gleam in Ryan's eye. And a probably not-so-insignificant reason it didn't go that way was Ryan's previous budget. This guy has very consistent goals and ambitions.

Of course I will. I have history on my side.

It easy to talk big shizz about cuts until you have to actually make cuts and bear the consequences.

Outside of wars ending I don't think we've ever budget cuts. The only cuts we talk about are cuts to increases in spending, which aren't cuts at all.

Fern

 

[Bitek]

Politics.

The Repubs know it won't pass in the Senate so they can safely vote for it knowing the cuts will never happen. Then they get to run home to their districts and claim they voted for spending cuts and a balanced budget and claim it's all Dems fault.

Pretty transparent game IMO.

This is why we don't see huge cuts when the repubs are in control.

Edit: As regards Ryan, I think he drinks his own Kool-Aid. I.e., he sincerely believes those are good things, will benefit us and that we should do those things. I suppose I'm actual giving credit to a politician for being sincere.

Fern

All true. It's basically the same deal with Obamacare. They have no real power to pass anything, so they vote/campaign for bullshit ideology statements.

Repeal and Replace? With what? *crickets*

They are in trouble if they actually win some elections and have to do something.

Ryan is likely honest about his own little world he believes in whereas Cruz only believes in himself.

 

[UberNeuman]

Of course I will. I have history on my side.

It easy to talk big shizz about cuts until you have to actually make cuts and bear the consequences.

Outside of wars ending I don't think we've ever budget cuts. The only cuts we talk about are cuts to increases in spending, which aren't cuts at all.

Fern

So the tax payer is funding Paul's Ayn Randian wet dream?

An empty one-handed exercise to bolster the base....

\heavens forbid that the GOP offer something of substance....

 

[Incorruptible]

why?

got a reason?

It violates freedom, the Constitution and government has no right to be involved with it.

 

[Sonikku]

All true. It's basically the same deal with Obamacare. They have no real power to pass anything, so they vote/campaign for bullshit ideology statements.

Repeal and Replace? With what? *crickets*

I think it's high time we stopped letting the liberals rip off our conservative ideas and instead throw them for a loop for once by stealing one of theirs. Obama pushes Romney care? WHAM! We pull out Canada care. That'll show those liberal bastards.

 

[ivwshane]

And you respond with more childish language.

No, apparently I'm responding to a child. Good day!

 

[chowderhead]

Clinton was right at the DNC speech. Republicans and Democrats have no will to cut spending. The Republicans will vote for tax cuts and more war but even tea party Republicans will vote for their pet spending projects such as rural airport support or amtrak subsidies or farm support, etc.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...788968-bf58-11e3-9ee7-02c1e10a03f0_story.html

I rather have tax and spend Democrats then borrow and spend Republicans.

 

[cubby1223]

No, apparently I'm responding to a child. Good day!

How so?

You're the one who defended the DNC email to be pure truth and made a challenge to point out the lies, in the assumption that it cannot be done, proclaiming "it's written in plan English with the main points of his plan bolded."

I happened to do just that on one of the points from the email.

And in response you call me a child. But then again I didn't expect anything better from you. You are very consistent and predictable.


Devastating: adjective 1. highly destructive or damaging.

The "plan[sic] English" of the proposal says nothing about damage or destruction to the programs. It only talks about eliminating redundancy and unproductive programs in order to strengthen the productive programs. The only way it can be argued as destructive or damaging is if it lists out specific cuts. It doesn't. It's just a general guideline with the goal of reducing spending while maintaining or improving on the results.

 

[ivwshane]

How so?

You're the one who defended the DNC email to be pure truth and made a challenge to point out the lies, in the assumption that it cannot be done, proclaiming "it's written in plan English with the main points of his plan bolded."

I happened to do just that on one of the points from the email.

And in response you call me a child.

Reading isn't your thing is it? I suggest you re read my original post and see where you made your mistake (hint I quoted the post I did because he made zero attempts at proving the email a lie).

Next straw man...

 

[cubby1223]

Reading isn't your thing is it? I suggest you re read my original post and see where you made your mistake (hint I quoted the post I did because he made zero attempts at proving the email a lie).

Next straw man...

Sometimes people don't respond because you have more than demonstrated over the years you are not worth the time of day.

What exactly did you add to the conversation? A few childish insults? Congrats on being the beacon of knowledge.

Your rantings don't change the fact that he was correct in the content of his post.

You are nothing special. Accept it.

 

[Victorian Gray]

LOL.

Sounds like all the usual scare-tactic Dim bell-ringing to drive their core lemmings into a frenzy.


Look down at the bottom of the page... in bright red flashing letters:

**KOCH!! KOCH!!! KOCH!! KOCH!!WALMART!!KOCH!!HOBBY-LOBBY!!!KOCH!!!KOCH!!!!**

You could have simply answered his question....

 

[ivwshane]

Delete

 

[ivwshane]

Sometimes people don't respond because you have more than demonstrated over the years you are not worth the time of day.

What exactly did you add to the conversation? A few childish insults? Congrats on being the beacon of knowledge.

Your rantings don't change the fact that he was correct in the content of his post.

You are nothing special. Accept it.

I added a link to the actual bill so people could read it for themselves, fuck face.

Lol! He was right in the content of his post? His post had no content!

You are right, I am nothing special but it sure didn't stop you from creating a worthless post commenting on me calling out a troll.

You on the other hand, are special

 

[Pr0d1gy]

I would post the same thing no matter who it was. What was posted is obvious propaganda, and therefor not to be believed. I mean really, it is the basest form of fear mongering. Who believes this stuff?

The same people who believe Fox news, basically. If you are voting for, or supporting, either party you are voting against yourself either way.

How do I know? I have voted for both and neither one did any of the stuff they were supposed to do. They can do whatever the hell they want now because too many people are just blindly voting based on their ideaology and not paying attention to the consequences.

 

[OGOC]

Most of these are easily verifiable. The GOP doesn't even attempt to hide the fact that they are in the pockets of the rich. They don't need to.

Compared to Democrats who are in the pockets of the rich but do hide it.

Anyway, the biggest concern about Paul Ryan budgets should be when they actually balance the budget deficit. His previous budgets were so bad they added 5 or 10 trillion to the debt and didn't balance the deficit for like 27 years. Pretty ridiculous for someone even the left claims is a "fiscal conservative."

 

[Jhhnn]

Politics.

The Repubs know it won't pass in the Senate so they can safely vote for it knowing the cuts will never happen. Then they get to run home to their districts and claim they voted for spending cuts and a balanced budget and claim it's all Dems fault.

Pretty transparent game IMO.

This is why we don't see huge cuts when the repubs are in control.

Edit: As regards Ryan, I think he drinks his own Kool-Aid. I.e., he sincerely believes those are good things, will benefit us and that we should do those things. I suppose I'm actual giving credit to a politician for being sincere.

Fern

So this budget proposal isn't serious, but rather chunks of red meat tossed out pandering to their base. Or, it's Repubs' idea of a joke, or so their fanbois claim, but they'd make it that way if they could.

Can we de-fund the ACA for the 40th time? How about ACORN? Or can we just move from la-la land to some semblance of getting real instead?

Is Terri Schiavo really dead?

I mean, it's one thing to lie, entirely another to believe it yourself, unless you're Republican.