Patriot Act Two Passed by Senate Intelligence Committee

[BBond]

We'd better start bringing some democracy and freedom to America before we try exporting any to Iraq, even if it is only being used there as an excuse to cover for Bush's unprovoked aggression.

If "Patriot Act II" (a sinful use of the word PATRIOT, imo) passes the full congress, they won't even need a warrant for wiretaps and searches. You won't even have to be declared a terrorist to be the subject of an investigation.

What does any of this have to do with the "war on terror"?

Little by little they're wittling away the Bill of Rights. You people are really going to be sorry in a few years that you refused to recognize the truth and supported this tyranny.

You can listen at the link. I'm sure there will be a transcript available soon.

Patriot Act Two Passed by Senate Intelligence Committee

Thursday, June 9th, 2005

The controversial USA PATRIOT Act was passed in the wake of the September 11, 2001 attacks. Despite the protests of civil libertarians and immigrant rights groups, the Act may now be made permanent and expanded to allow for surveillance without judicial approval. We host a debate.

The Senate Intelligence Committee voted 11 to 4 in a closed door session on Tuesday to approve an expansion of the USA PATRIOT Act.

The new measure would make permanent eight provisions of the Act, which is set to expire at the end of this year. It would also increase government surveillance powers by granting investigators access to an individual's business records and allowing wiretaps and searches without a demonstrated link to terrorism or a federal judge's permission.

The legislation must still be considered by the Senate Judiciary Committee, the full Senate and the House before it becomes law.

* Harvey Eisenberg, Assistant U.S. Attorney for the District of Maryland. He recently co-authored an editorial in the Balitmore Sun supporting the PATRIOT Act.
* David Cole, professor at Georgetown Law School and author of "Enemy Aliens: Double Standards and Constitutional Freedom in the War on Terrorism." He has an article in The Nation magazine last month titled "The Missing Patriot Debate."

Please America, WTFU before it's too late. If it isn't too late already.

 

[RabidMongoose]

This is horrible, especially if these provisions are made permanent.

 

[laFiera]

and they do need the closed door sessions to pass them...then again, most people are so immersed in the michael jackson case or deepthroat bs that of course, nobody cares about the patriot act.....after all, as Lord Bush says, "this important, good law" which is enough to convince all americans that this is a divine law!

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
This is horrible, especially if these provisions are made permanent.

Eight of the provisions of Patriot Act I were made permanent.

When I search senate.gov for USA Patriot Act I get a list of twenty one bills exactly matching that phrase. I'll bet no one knows what's in the full legislation and it would take someone with a staff of attorneys to figure it out.

Next stop, totalitarianism.

 

[imported_Stratago]

It would seem that Bush has been reading Orwell a little too much for our good.

 

[Stunt]

I want to know what the small government conservatives think about these pieces of legislation...

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Stratago
It would seem that Bush has been reading Orwell a little too much for our good.

Bush doesn't read. Andy Card reads and tells Bush what it says.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Stunt
I want to know what the small government conservatives think about these pieces of legislation...

Government will be very small. One of them to watch every one of us. Like the STASI in East Germany before the Berlin Wall came down. Half the country was spying on the other half.

We have become what we fear.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Stunt
I want to know what the small government conservatives think about these pieces of legislation...

It sucks, just like the first incarnation of it.

 

[imported_Aelius]

Liberty dies to thunderous applause.

e.g. Nazi Germany

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Stunt
I want to know what the small government conservatives think about these pieces of legislation...

It sucks, just like the first incarnation of it.

It sucks a whole lot more considering they can arrest you without charges, hold you without representation, and search your home and business without a warrant -- and that's just for starters.

Maybe is we're lucky they'll give us a free ride on one of those corporate jets, including a movie, as they rendition us to foreign government who use torture as their primary method of interrogation.

 

[imported_Stratago]

Originally posted by: BBond

We have become what we fear.

It?s like Animal Farm, first the pigs, Republicans, take over and then they turn into what we were trying to stop in the first place.

I am personally not a fan of the political system we have in the U.S. for a few reasons.
1) It seems to be human nature that the more power that you have the more you lust for it, and politicians have all the power.
2) Politics now has just become mud slinging jibber jabber; important issues are just a footnote.
3) The easiest way to change the world is through the government but it is almost impossible for an average person to break into the political world.

Back to the topic of the Patriot Act part II, limiting personal freedom for "safety" seems to be the beginning of an overly oppressive government. Ben Franklin warned us about this, but it seems too often our government does not listen to history.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Stratago

Originally posted by: BBond

We have become what we fear.

It?s like Animal Farm, first the pigs, Republicans, take over and then they turn into what we were trying to stop in the first place.

I am personally not a fan of the political system we have in the U.S. for a few reasons.
1) It seems to be human nature that the more power that you have the more you lust for it, and politicians have all the power.
2) Politics now has just become mud slinging jibber jabber; important issues are just a footnote.
3) The easiest way to change the world is through the government but it is almost impossible for an average person to break into the political world.

Back to the topic of the Patriot Act part II, limiting personal freedom for "safety" seems to be the beginning of an overly oppressive government. Ben Franklin warned us about this, but it seems too often our government does not listen to history.

Animal Farm. Precisely.

I wonder where the Great Western Warrior for Freedom and Democracy stands on this affront to our constitutionally guaranteed rights!?

Bush urges Congress to renew Patriot Act

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Stunt
I want to know what the small government conservatives think about these pieces of legislation...

It sucks, just like the first incarnation of it.

It sucks a whole lot more considering they can arrest you without charges, hold you without representation, and search your home and business without a warrant -- and that's just for starters.

Maybe is we're lucky they'll give us a free ride on one of those corporate jets, including a movie, as they rendition us to foreign government who use torture as their primary method of interrogation.

Umm.. ok. I was asked for my opinion of it and I gave it. Flame away, if it makes you feel better. :roll:

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Stunt
I want to know what the small government conservatives think about these pieces of legislation...

It sucks, just like the first incarnation of it.

It sucks a whole lot more considering they can arrest you without charges, hold you without representation, and search your home and business without a warrant -- and that's just for starters.

Maybe is we're lucky they'll give us a free ride on one of those corporate jets, including a movie, as they rendition us to foreign government who use torture as their primary method of interrogation.

Umm.. ok. I was asked for my opinion of it and I gave it. Flame away, if it makes you feel better. :roll:

Just giving my opinion. Sorry if it's too hot for you.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Umm.. ok. I was asked for my opinion of it and I gave it. Flame away, if it makes you feel better. :roll:

Just giving my opinion. Sorry if it's too hot for you.

Oooo.. burn on me! You go girl!

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Stunt
I want to know what the small government conservatives think about these pieces of legislation...

Nothing good. Adding to my comments in the Billary thread, I voted against Bush specifically to prevent against this kind of legislation. One cannot purchase security by paying with liberty. That is a myth, and a poor one at that. When we sacrifice our liberty, we sacrifice our security as well.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Umm.. ok. I was asked for my opinion of it and I gave it. Flame away, if it makes you feel better. :roll:

Just giving my opinion. Sorry if it's too hot for you.

Oooo.. burn on me! You go girl!

You're an idiot.

 

[mc00]

the funny thing is alot people support this patriot act like I have read in other forums some of them say "if you not terrorist or breaking any law then you don't have to worry about it" well don't you realize as soon you give you of those right you wont get them back? come on many people fought and die for right to be free and now we going to give up for security? I never proved this patriot and I'll never support it and I wont give up my right for security... We have the right to use gun and protect our self, and we pay our taxes so the FBI and CIA and miltary do there jobs.. I'm hispanic(born here) and I love this country more then my and what this country stand for but seem like this political leaders are changing what this country stand for. I fight for my right anytime but not for OIL or stupid wars.. as example I would fight if china want to invade us and try to place communist in our country...

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: Stratago
It would seem that Bush has been reading Orwell a little too much for our good.

Yup to most of us 1984 is a warning, to them it's called The Manual.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Umm.. ok. I was asked for my opinion of it and I gave it. Flame away, if it makes you feel better. :roll:

Just giving my opinion. Sorry if it's too hot for you.

Oooo.. burn on me! You go girl!

You're an idiot.

:|

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Stunt
I want to know what the small government conservatives think about these pieces of legislation...

Nothing good. Adding to my comments in the Billary thread, I voted against Bush specifically to prevent against this kind of legislation. One cannot purchase security by paying with liberty. That is a myth, and a poor one at that. When we sacrifice our liberty, we sacrifice our security as well.

Engineer applauds Vic on your wonderful post. :thumbsup:

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Did all the knee jerkers miss this little tidbit?

The legislation must still be considered by the Senate Judiciary Committee, the full Senate and the House before it becomes law.

Nothing has been "passed" yet. It's been approved by the SIC to move forward into consideration to become law. So all the teeth gnashing in this thread is a bit premature.

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Did all the knee jerkers miss this little tidbit?

The legislation must still be considered by the Senate Judiciary Committee, the full Senate and the House before it becomes law.

Nothing has been "passed" yet. It's been approved by the SIC to move forward into consideration to become law. So all the teeth gnashing in this thread is a bit premature.

You're right, but the gnashing of teeth needs to be heard, so that them idiots down ruin this country for you and me. Perhaps we need to gnash our teeth in letters and demonstrations, not on a silly message board.

 

[imported_Stratago]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Nothing has been "passed" yet. It's been approved by the SIC to move forward into consideration to become law. So all the teeth gnashing in this thread is a bit premature.

I have to disagree with you on the prematuratiy of the teeth gnashing. Although the revisions still have to go through the whole political process, I think that too much goes in Congress that people are just unaware of. The more information that gets out to the public the better. But I'm not sure about how discussing it on an antech forum is going to change anything substantially.