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Path of Exile 2.0 - Discussion

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XiandreX

Golden Member
Jan 14, 2011
1,172
16
81
Starting a Scion Spark build.
I highly suggest using Ziggy's guide as a rough template.
My character is destroying stuff.
My lvl 18 Spark fire 8 projectiles, 100% pierce chance, 30% more poison dmg, full chaos conversion, 0.29 cast speed and each spark lasts around 2.85 seconds. Tooltip Dps is only 10.8k but I am doing FAR more dps.
Tooltip Dps spikes to 23k already with 5 Frenzies, and 3 Power charges going.
Once I get a 6L and get my gem to 20 its going to be nuts. :D

The funny part is because the Sparks travel so far they are killing things 2 rooms away all the time. :cool:

http://ziggyd.tv/featured/path-of-exile-scion-spark-build-guide/
 
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XiandreX

Golden Member
Jan 14, 2011
1,172
16
81
It is proving to be a real pain in the rear trying to get a decent 6L Evasion/ES white.
I would like Carnal base but nothing available when I am online or they want 4 Ex.
I will keep on farming for currency in the meantime.
 
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Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
The game is annoying me more and more as I progress further.

Just did a malformation map. WTF. I understand the concept that some bosses should be harder or easier for certain builds, but piety on this map is just stupid. I have over 5k life, capped ele resists, she still basically kills me instantly if I get hit by her beam. Is it chaos damage?

Game is just getting stupid. I don't mind a challenge, but the risk/reward is so stupidly broken. Why should I try to deal with the challenge of that garbage when I could instead do a higher tier map and fight something trivial like Oozeback Bloom.

I'm not even playing hardcore, so this isn't bothering me as much as it would be. I almost exclusively played hardcore when I played 2-4 years ago, and no death bothered me this much. I could almost always look at my character and figure out what I did wrong or built wrong. This isn't that- this is just a case of one map boss doing 10X as much damage as other map bosses of the same damn tier.

The challenge is not in the fights or gameplay, the challenge is knowing exactly which map bosses are stupid and should be avoided and which map bosses are trivial.

It's sad to me because this was a great game a few years ago. Seems like it just went down hill after nemesis league.
 

Majes

Golden Member
Apr 8, 2008
1,164
148
106
It's sad to me because this was a great game a few years ago. Seems like it just went down hill after nemesis league.
It's strange that you say this since your main complaint is something that's been in the game for forever... Some bosses have always been ridiculously hard compared to others. The game is actually the best it's ever been at the moment IMO...

The Malformation fight is stupid. I just skip that boss. However, I also skip the Dungeon boss which is a T1 map... It's part of the learning curve of the game. But PoE has always been terrible to new players.
 

XiandreX

Golden Member
Jan 14, 2011
1,172
16
81
The game is annoying me more and more as I progress further.

Just did a malformation map. WTF. I understand the concept that some bosses should be harder or easier for certain builds, but piety on this map is just stupid. I have over 5k life, capped ele resists, she still basically kills me instantly if I get hit by her beam. Is it chaos damage?

Game is just getting stupid. I don't mind a challenge, but the risk/reward is so stupidly broken. Why should I try to deal with the challenge of that garbage when I could instead do a higher tier map and fight something trivial like Oozeback Bloom.

I'm not even playing hardcore, so this isn't bothering me as much as it would be. I almost exclusively played hardcore when I played 2-4 years ago, and no death bothered me this much. I could almost always look at my character and figure out what I did wrong or built wrong. This isn't that- this is just a case of one map boss doing 10X as much damage as other map bosses of the same damn tier.

The challenge is not in the fights or gameplay, the challenge is knowing exactly which map bosses are stupid and should be avoided and which map bosses are trivial.

It's sad to me because this was a great game a few years ago. Seems like it just went down hill after nemesis league.
While I understand your frustration, I have to disagree about the game not being great anymore.
Its also free to play and if I look at the competition out there, there really is nothing that compares.
From what I have found online the beam is 50% physical 50% lightning and applies corrupted blood.
You can whirling blade through it without taking damage and other mobility skills can help to avoid it.
Either way it does deal a tremendous amount of damage if it hits, so I will agree with you on that part. Sorry that its giving you so much frustration.
I had a Torture chamber yesterday and the beyond mod was running and I had 3 deaths to the stupid Unique mobs with stupid ground damage.
This is with me keeping my distance with Chaos spark.
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
Just to put things in perspective, I am doing a double boss underground river map, same map tier. Boss is a bear. I can trivially kite it around and let me golem tank it and kill it, but just to see if I could I let it hit me, and I found I can easily just facetank it and flask through the damage. It's a massive night and day difference. And it's not because I have some build specifically designed to trivialize killing bear bosses.

"your main complaint is something that's been in the game for forever"

Has it? I started in closed beta. The hardest boss at the time was vaal oversoul, and after you killed it went to the next difficulty. While the oversoul was tough if you had no idea how to handle the mechanics, it wasn't absurdly hard at the same level as this. Case in point- a character built to tank could take a smash from oversoul and survive. Any ranged character could trivially avoid the smashes, and even melee could easily avoid it once they learned the tells. The lightning was originally much more nasty (shock used to stack up to 3 times), but you could still easily side-step to avoid it without requiring any special movement skill or character build.

Bleh. The hardest hard stuff in the classic game was still totally doable in a normal manner. You didn't have to grind out an extra 5 levels before you fought the oversoul. you didn't need to equip a specific skill gem or piece of gear to make the fight doable. You didn't need to pay a chaos to have some higher level come in and kill it for you (though some people did anyway, just to completely mitigate risk of death).
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
While I understand your frustration, I have to disagree about the game not being great anymore.
Its also free to play and if I look at the competition out there, there really is nothing that compares.
I guess this is true. There is nothing else to fill the void, other games just aren't even close. PoE, with or without it's flaws, is kind of the king of it's little niche.
 

XiandreX

Golden Member
Jan 14, 2011
1,172
16
81
I guess this is true. There is nothing else to fill the void, other games just aren't even close. PoE, with or without it's flaws, is kind of the king of it's little niche.
It is indeed. No matter if I get bored with a build, there are so many different builds, that it will keep me occupied for a long time to come. :)
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
I just 6-linked a taryn's shiver after only 26 fusings. I take back all the bad stuff I said about the game.
 

Majes

Golden Member
Apr 8, 2008
1,164
148
106
"your main complaint is something that's been in the game for forever"

Has it? I started in closed beta. The hardest boss at the time was vaal oversoul, and after you killed it went to the next difficulty. While the oversoul was tough if you had no idea how to handle the mechanics, it wasn't absurdly hard at the same level as this. Case in point- a character built to tank could take a smash from oversoul and survive. Any ranged character could trivially avoid the smashes, and even melee could easily avoid it once they learned the tells. The lightning was originally much more nasty (shock used to stack up to 3 times), but you could still easily side-step to avoid it without requiring any special movement skill or character build.

Bleh. The hardest hard stuff in the classic game was still totally doable in a normal manner. You didn't have to grind out an extra 5 levels before you fought the oversoul. you didn't need to equip a specific skill gem or piece of gear to make the fight doable. You didn't need to pay a chaos to have some higher level come in and kill it for you (though some people did anyway, just to completely mitigate risk of death).
This is a really odd way to argue that it hasn't been in the game forever. You went back to when there were two bosses and said that the hardest one wasn't that hard. I assumed since you were complaining about map bosses we would go back to the start of the map system (to which I still think my point is valid)

If you really want to argue about Vaal Oversoul I would ask if you were on the PoE forums when he was released to see all the complaints about how difficult he was. At the time you could not tank his slam unless you designed a character to only do that... Characters in Merciless could die to the normal slam... It's actually quite similar to the Malformation boss. Piety is certainly a little harder mechanically, but it can be tanked if you like or it can be avoided with knowledge of the fight.
 

Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
29,753
3,475
126
I highly suggest using Ziggy's guide as a rough template.
My character is destroying stuff.
My lvl 18 Spark fire 8 projectiles, 100% pierce chance, 30% more poison dmg, full chaos conversion, 0.29 cast speed and each spark lasts around 2.85 seconds. Tooltip Dps is only 10.8k but I am doing FAR more dps.
Tooltip Dps spikes to 23k already with 5 Frenzies, and 3 Power charges going.
Once I get a 6L and get my gem to 20 its going to be nuts. :D

The funny part is because the Sparks travel so far they are killing things 2 rooms away all the time. :cool:

http://ziggyd.tv/featured/path-of-exile-scion-spark-build-guide/
Yeah its where I got the idea from. I will follow his build as a guideline.
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
This is a really odd way to argue that it hasn't been in the game forever. You went back to when there were two bosses and said that the hardest one wasn't that hard.
Two bosses? At least be consistent. You later mention map bosses. Many of the "map" bosses were already in the game at that point. Rhoa boss in mud flats, bear boss in the den, the 3 bandit bosses. Even if you only take mandatory boss fights, there were at least 4 other bosses you had to kill before reaching the vaal oversoul.

if you were on the PoE forums when he was released to see all the complaints about how difficult he was
Perhaps justified, it's all a relative scale. If the game, up until that point, was at a 5/10 for difficulty, it does make sense that cranking it up to 6/10 might seem too difficult for some players, and less fun. The piety map boss is like pushing that up to 9.99/10. Mainly what gets me is that there is no reason to fight her, none at all. It would be one thing if it was a hard fight justified by a great reward, but it's not- it's just a hard fight you should probably skip if you care about your experience or your hardcore character.

At the time you could not tank his slam unless you designed a character to only do that.
The slam did 50% physical 50% fire damage. You just had to cap fire resist (where capping all elemental resists is pretty much mandatory anyway, so this is trivial), and have sufficient armor & life (which is something you need in a general sense to survive any hard hits, not something you do only to beat vaal oversoul).

The only reason this was significant at the time is that previously it wasn't so critical to cap resists. Nowadays with rogue exiles and such, walking around with any resist significantly below cap can result in a very quick death in some situations.

Piety is certainly a little harder mechanically
And that might be the understatement of the year.
 

Majes

Golden Member
Apr 8, 2008
1,164
148
106
There were two bosses. Act 1 and Act 2. (You should have argued Brutus if you really wanted an argument) The rest were just champion monsters.

It didn't matter that the slam was 50% physical and 50% fire. If you capped resists and had high armor it still did around 5K damage. At the time you needed something like a legacy Kaoms to reach that.

And yes if you have trouble running in circles the Piety fight is much harder. If you can circle kite it's not really much different.
 

Jax Omen

Golden Member
Mar 14, 2008
1,654
2
81
If you die to non-twinned malformation piety, it's because you're bad. Run in circles win fight.

Dying to mechanics that A) you've seen before in A4, and B) are indended to be avoided, not tanked... 100% your own fault.

The map bosses I hate are like museum (wtf t3 boss harder than most yellow map bosses, oneshots most builds) and orchard (FUCK Tunneltrap). Oh and Jungle Valley.
 

XiandreX

Golden Member
Jan 14, 2011
1,172
16
81
If you die to non-twinned malformation piety, it's because you're bad. Run in circles win fight.

Dying to mechanics that A) you've seen before in A4, and B) are indended to be avoided, not tanked... 100% your own fault.

The map bosses I hate are like museum (wtf t3 boss harder than most yellow map bosses, oneshots most builds) and orchard (FUCK Tunneltrap). Oh and Jungle Valley.
I take your selection of bosses and raise you Twinned Jungle Valley with Temp chains and a whole slew of other mods. Yeah that sucked :D
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,044
62
91
Got a Shav's (3rd of season) and mortal hope from brodiro today :D

Dunno how I'm feeling about this character though, kills crazy quick but I'm dying a lot. Seems like the game is running like crap, might move the install onto my SSD.
 

XiandreX

Golden Member
Jan 14, 2011
1,172
16
81
How important is the base? I can get a double res 110 life 6L Crypt armour for 1.5Ex with 396 Evasion / 319 ES.
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
There were two bosses. Act 1 and Act 2. (You should have argued Brutus if you really wanted an argument) The rest were just champion monsters.
I was referring to Brutus, and the bandits, weaver, as well as Hillock. There are also some other bosses that were nearly mandatory, such as Fidelitas- you could theoretically run past him for the quest item but I've never not killed him. They are indeed "bosses" by any definition of the term.

If you look up "champion monsters", to use your term, what do you see in the list? Ah, merviel and vaal oversoul, in addition to all the above bosses. "Just" champion monsters, doesn't mean much- all the bosses in the campaign are champion monsters.


It didn't matter that the slam was 50% physical and 50% fire. If you capped resists and had high armor it still did around 5K damage. At the time you needed something like a legacy Kaoms to reach that.
You could survive it in normal *easily*. It didn't do 5k. By the time you got to merciless, you probably did have 5k hp, and a granite flask of 100% increased armor, and it still wasn't impossible survive if you wanted to try. Of course by then you already beat it 3 times in the previous difficulties, so you had lots of practice dodging the slam.


And yes if you have trouble running in circles the Piety fight is much harder. If you can circle kite it's not really much different.
Not sure if you have ever done map piety based on this comment. She spawned for me with a pack of mobs, and in addition to the spinning beam of death she put a lot of red death spots on the ground. Some overlapped, at some points during the fight it wasn't actually possible to circle all around her without hitting red splotches and the pack of mobs was also interfering with your movement.

As someone suggested, I guess if you have whirling blades and can pass through the beam harmlessly it's pretty trivial, but if that isn't your build you are just out of luck. And for what? 5 random rares, maybe a map if you are lucky? Rather just skip her and do a map with a normal boss.
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
Dying to mechanics that A) you've seen before in A4, and B) are indended to be avoided, not tanked... 100% your own fault.
Intended according to who? I killed campaign piety fine because I can potion through the beam. Map piety beam was instant kill, couldn't do that. Not the same mechanic at all.

Not sure how you are supposed to circle it either, with the deadzones on the floor and stuns from mobs hitting you and you can't even outrun the beam without a quicksilver flask. What do you do when you run out of charges? Or was I supposed to respec my build to add 25% more move speed before the fight? (it might have been caster boss casting mod on the map)
 
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XiandreX

Golden Member
Jan 14, 2011
1,172
16
81
Intended according to who? I killed campaign piety fine because I can potion through the beam. Map piety beam was instant kill, couldn't do that. Not the same mechanic at all.

Not sure how you are supposed to circle it either, with the deadzones on the floor and stuns from mobs hitting you and you can't even outrun the beam without a quicksilver flask. What do you do when you run out of charges? Or was I supposed to respec my build to add 25% more move speed before the fight? (it might have been caster boss casting mod on the map)
Truth be told Jax is correct. You cannot apply the same method to completing a boss on one difficulty and expecting it to be the same/similar in the top difficulty. (mapping)
Map piety was never intended to be the same as campaign, nor should it be.
 

Jax Omen

Golden Member
Mar 14, 2008
1,654
2
81
are... are you playing a build with zero movespeed from tree or boots?

Why would you EVER do that to yourself unless you're using whirling blades?

I think we found the problem. Get yourself some boots with 20-30% runspeed on them because playing the game without some basic runspeed is genuinely awful. This isn't "you need a special build", this is "why would you ever want to be slow?". Endgame is balanced around certain levels of damage, survivability, and yes, mobility. How you reach those threshholds is up to you.

Also, the pack of mobs is a blue pack, they should be dead within a few seconds maximum.
 
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