Passive crossover on z5500?

[tonksiee]

Ok well i basically brought my z5500 for music and gaming, but ive grew up a bit and im not on my xbox 24/7 now. Im not also that bothered about playing in surround sound anymore, its nice when i watch movies but i dont watch them that much and when i do its usually late of a night so i cant have my sub blasting all the time so i just use my tv speakers.

My speakers are only used for music now and have been for a while and ive started to realise how bad they are at playing it. Hense why i want to upgrade, but you've just told me that a seperate setup would be alot better than fiddling with something and getting not half of what i expect.

Ill probally buy that sub which doesent have a sub line in btw, it has a left and right rca in. I could plug my computer into this, then plug my amp for my 2 bookshelves into the rca out. I know what bookshelves im interested in, these: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=REG&A=details so how i just need a simple amp to power them.

The only concern i would have is if i want to turn my sound up or down i would have to do it on my amp then on the back of my sub wouldn't i?

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

You'll likely end up with an easier to use system and better results if you buy a receiver based system and follow equipment recommendations we provide.

 

[yuppiejr]

Ill probally buy that sub which doesent have a sub line in btw, it has a left and right rca in. I could plug my computer into this, then plug my amp for my 2 bookshelves into the rca out. I know what bookshelves im interested in, these: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=REG&A=details so how i just need a simple amp to power them.

The only concern i would have is if i want to turn my sound up or down i would have to do it on my amp then on the back of my sub wouldn't i?

Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should - I get the concept you're going for but am not sure this is the right application.

If you're buying an amp anyway I think you'd actually be better off running a subwoofer via the high level speaker level inputs from the L/R amp channels rather than this off-brand LTC unit if you're doing sub + satellites for a speaker solution.

... this whole pass through RCA concept seems iffy and would require you to control volume at each source rather than centrally for the entire A/V stack. I could not find a tech specs that indicates if the RCA outputs are full range or low-pass only and if they are effected by the volume control on the sub.

Your other option may be to skip the sub and look at some nice full range tower speakers running a dual channel amplifier. Not to keep pimping BIC or Dayton but they both have solid budget speaker offerings and you can get a pair of BIC 3-way 15" speakers for $230 shipped (2 @ $95 plus $40 shipping) and pair it with a Behringer A500 stereo amplifier which will more than do the job for $430 all-in.

You are going to move a lot of air with two full range speakers running a pair of 15" woofers backed up with a powerhouse amp like the Behringer. I'd argue this will do a lot better for music than a 2.1 setup that tends to toot a lot of one note bass (fine for movie/game LFE, not so good for music) and certainly shake the room to a greater extent and in more seats than a stand alone 10" sub with a pair of bookshelves. If you want something of higher quality in terms of faithful sound reproduction in a 2.0 tower speaker setup the BIC DV64's are highly regarded on a budget ($260 shipped for a pair from PE).

The Behringer will also be a stereo component you can carry forward to a number of other audio and H/T applications down the road.

 

[tonksiee]

I dont really have the money or space for big 15's. Ill be happy with some decent bookshelves and a good sub, but it needs to be on a budget lol. If i ran my speakers through that sub would the sub filter only the high frequencys out and play the low frequencys itself? Or would it just take the low frequencys play them but leave the output exactly the same as the input?

And so would it vary the sub volume on the input level so i can control everything with my reciever, right?

 

[sdifox]

Uh, caps on the ouput of an amp aren't going to help mitigate clipping.

So Harvey, what kind of audio electronics do you design?

I didn't say that did I 😛

 

[slashbinslashbash]

Just FYI, look around the used market for a stereo receiver -- they are dime a dozen now that home theater has taken over the market. You should be able to pick up an older Technics, Pioneer, or similar for VERY cheap. Any receiver will have at least a one or two L/R RCA outputs for the tape loop that you can run to your sub. Then you can tune the sub's volume and crossover by ear (if you go this route, it really would be best to have a sub with both of these adjustable).

 

[tonksiee]

Just FYI, look around the used market for a stereo receiver -- they are dime a dozen now that home theater has taken over the market. You should be able to pick up an older Technics, Pioneer, or similar for VERY cheap. Any receiver will have at least a one or two L/R RCA outputs for the tape loop that you can run to your sub. Then you can tune the sub's volume and crossover by ear (if you go this route, it really would be best to have a sub with both of these adjustable).

Ok thanks, so if i turn the volume up on my receiver the volume of the rca output will rise aswell?

 

[slashbinslashbash]

Ok thanks, so if i turn the volume up on my receiver the volume of the rca output will rise aswell?

No, sorry, I meant that you would have to adjust the volume of the sub. The tape loop outputs will not vary with the receiver's volume controls. If you normally listen at standard volumes, though, you wouldn't really need to tweak it much.

 

[tonksiee]

Would it work if i connected the sub in between the speakers and amp with the high level in/out? I dont really fancy adjusting the sub volume everytime i wanna adjust the overall volume.

 

[alcoholbob]

Sell your Z-5500s. You can probably get $300 out of them these days. My roommate bought the Z-5500 when they first came out in 06 for $230 from Dell and then last year sold it for over $300 on craigslist...nice investment indeed. It did sound like crap though, and he almost never turned it on and had it shoved in the closet because too many neighbors were complaining about the boomy bass.

It'll be a good start for a new stereo system.

btw, the reason the Z-5500 crossover is 150 Hz is because the satellites -3db point is probably around 140 Hz. I know the Klipsch iFi with a 3.5" mid and 1" tweeter has a 120hz crossover because the satellite's -3db point is 113 Hz. These crossovers are all designed based on the systems limitations.

And the Z-5500 amp, like some have aluded to earlier, produce probably little to no clean power. They are rated at 60W @ 1 KHz/10% THD (per channel). 1KHz is one of the easiest signals to play. Most commercial systems are measured at ~ 0.1% THD or less. At 10% THD any amp could put out a ridiculous amount of power. 1% THD is considered very audible distortion, at 10% your ears will be bleeding.

The typical power amp I've seen puts out about 2-3 times the amount of power at 1% THD vs 0.1% THD, to give you a basic idea of how skewed the marketing literature is on the Z-5500. I'd be surprised if the system was putting out more than 20 clean watts/channel.

 

[slashbinslashbash]

Would it work if i connected the sub in between the speakers and amp with the high level in/out? I dont really fancy adjusting the sub volume everytime i wanna adjust the overall volume.

Yes.

 

[tonksiee]

Just noticed that subs rms is almost 3-4 times lower than my logitechs. Time to look for something more powerful 😛 My bookshelves should be good tho, the're twice the amount of the logitechs satalites.

 

[kalrith]

Just noticed that subs rms is almost 3-4 times lower than my logitechs. Time to look for something more powerful 😛 My bookshelves should be good tho, the're twice the amount of the logitechs satalites.

Don't get too caught up on power, especially since computer speakers are known for reporting false or artificially inflated numbers. Also, the Z5500 sub is 188W (which is likely overinflated or not continuous), and the afore-mentioned Bic sub is 160W. You won't notice the decrease in power (especially since there will actually be an increase in power); you absolutely will notice the difference in quality. If you want to get a better sub, I'd recommend the Bic F12.

 

[tonksiee]

Don't get too caught up on power, especially since computer speakers are known for reporting false or artificially inflated numbers. Also, the Z5500 sub is 188W (which is likely overinflated or not continuous), and the afore-mentioned Bic sub is 160W. You won't notice the decrease in power (especially since there will actually be an increase in power); you absolutely will notice the difference in quality. If you want to get a better sub, I'd recommend the Bic F12.

Ok thanks ill go with that sub someone suggested, if i used that one on ebay how would it compare with the logiech sub. I know it would obviously not be as boomy but would it be as loud? Even if logitech are lying that the sub produces 188w rms it would be alot higher that 50w in real life wouldn't it?

 

[kalrith]

Ok thanks ill go with that sub someone suggested, if i used that one on ebay how would it compare with the logiech sub. I know it would obviously not be as boomy but would it be as loud? Even if logitech are lying that the sub produces 188w rms it would be alot higher that 50w in real life wouldn't it?

Frankly that ebay sub looks like junk, but I have no experience with that sub, so I can't say for certain. The $150 Bic is usually the least-expensive one I see recommended. However, you might try looking on ebay, craigslist, and FS forums for used equipment. You should be able to get a used receiver for $50 max and either the same speakers/sub for less money or better speakers/sub for the same money as buying new. I bought a $250+ sub off of ebay for $110 4-5 years ago, and it's still going strong.

Edit: So, is it safe to assume that you're located in the UK?

 

[tonksiee]

Frankly that ebay sub looks like junk, but I have no experience with that sub, so I can't say for certain. The $150 Bic is usually the least-expensive one I see recommended. However, you might try looking on ebay, craigslist, and FS forums for used equipment. You should be able to get a used receiver for $50 max and either the same speakers/sub for less money or better speakers/sub for the same money as buying new. I bought a $250+ sub off of ebay for $110 4-5 years ago, and it's still going strong.

Edit: So, is it safe to assume that you're located in the UK?

Im gonna go for these speakers http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-SSB1000.../dp/B000OQ3TGW

Pick up a 2nd hand amp, stereo or 5.1 (if i find one for cheap) off ebay.

And then buy this sub eventually http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=303-430

And yes im in the UK, why?

 

[slashbinslashbash]

And yes im in the UK, why?

Well, there are different brands offered in Britain than in the States. You probably have things over there that aren't available here (and vice-versa). Also, things there are just generally more expensive, so some of our pricing advice might not apply.