Parents turn in their 7th grade daughter for sexting nudes w/boys

[TheVrolok]

Go ahead and change my mind about how it's not a big deal for a child to see a woman getting gagged and fucked in her asshole. If you can do that, I'll admit I was wrong and lift the ban on porn in the house.

You seem to be confused. I have no desire to change your mind or house rules. All I came to say was that it's not quite as black and white as your portend.

Kids who are exposed to that kind of stuff stick out like a sore thumb.

Like most generalizations, this is patently false. How exactly do they "stick out like a sore thumb?"

 

[MrDudeMan]

You seem to be confused. I have no desire to change your mind or house rules. All I came to say was that it's not quite as black and white as your portend.

Bullshit. There's absolutely no point in contributing to an argument or discussion if you don't care to project your opinion. That's the entire point of a discussion board... to discuss. I'm saying I'm willing to change my mind if there's a valid reason to do so because I actually try to learn something from discussions, but you've dodged every single statement I've made that was logical and defensible because you're gut feeling is that kids should be allowed to watch porn at 10 due to it 'not being that bad.' That's really what this is about regardless of your constant attempts to deflect into a more generalized failure of parenting. You don't have to care to change someone's opinion, but if you have an opinion, which you clearly do, you should be able to back it up when someone asks you to do so. Otherwise, it's worthless.

Like most generalizations, this is patently false. How exactly do they "stick out like a sore thumb?"

Kids who aren't given rules stick out like a sore thumb. Any parent who has a well behaved child can clearly and easily see the difference especially when it comes to subjects that are taboo for 99.9% of households at such an early age. Porn is the taboo - not talking about sex - because I know you're at the defense of all the poor 10 year olds who don't get to watch bang bus and casting couch. If someone brings up sex/porn/anything remotely related, the kids who are able to freely access it react completely differently and have a totally different attitude about it. The rest of the kids who know what it is but haven't been exposed ask an entirely different set of questions. I help run a baseball camp every summer for 10-12 year old kids and this is inevitably discussed among them at length. It's sad and pretty fucked up to hear a kid talk about what he 'wants to do' to the girls he knows. Meanwhile, the more innocent among them are still behaving like kids.

Adults become inundated with sex at a certain age, so there's no reason to start it earlier than necessary. As I said before, the punishment for the 10 year old in my house is 'severe' because I know the cost of letting him focus on porn, which he will definitely do given the chance considering 1) he's male and 2) he has a pulse. It would rob him of a significant chunk of his innocence that he'll never get back because I know he's still a child at heart based on my daily interaction with him. When he grows into this naturally, then by all means he can start governing himself. Until then, it's my job to know the difference.

 

[tortillasoup]

There's no need to reconcile anything. Having sex is completely natural and it's something kids will discover on their own. Seeing a guy fuck a girl in her ass and then gag her with his dick right before shooting a load in her eye isn't what kids need to think sex is all about before they have any experience with it at all. If you choose to have sex like that based on your own experience, that's great.

Dude, first of all, while I WAS exposed to that shit at a young age, I had no desire to watch that sort of thing. I think you're conflating that if people watch something, they'll continue to watch those things and will see them as normal/attractive. No true at all. I watched porn because I needed to watch it, no it wasn't the most vanilla stuff out there but it wasn't this abusive shit you're talking about either. I could have watched the most wretched, disgusting things out there thanks to the internet but I choose not to due to preferences. People who watch those things have that inclination anyway so basically they're fcked up anyhow so you're not protecting them from nothing.

As another example, violent movies. Some people really enjoy that stuff and others don't, I used to watch more violent movies when I was younger because I thought it was the adult thing but now, knowing that being an adult is basically just watching/doing what you want to do without unnecessary outside influence, I'm mostly repulsed by excessively violent movies or those that feature torture in them so I won't watch them. You just give me the impression that you think if someone is exposed to video of things that they'll get a warped sense of reality and it will pollute their mind. Maybe that's true for some people but I don't think that would apply to me nor anybody in my family.

I don't think there's a wrong way to do it as long as both people want the same things. Letting a 10 year old see that kind of thing, though, is totally outside the bounds of normalcy. Porn isn't video of regular people having regular sex.

So if the porn IS of "regular people" (what ever the fuck that means!) having sex, does that change anything? Because that's mostly all I wanted to watch. I mean sure I'd like various positions and fellatio and all that crap but I was never interested in extreme behavior or whatnot and anybody who was probably has pre-existing conditions/circumstances anyhow and the porn isn't the cause, just the symptom of that.

That's all true and I actually don't disagree with any of it. That's not going to happen to a 10 year old unless you totally give up and say 'have at it' while ignoring their internet usage.

Well I've always had the desire to have sex/watch porn since about 6 years old. FYI, I was not molested... Yet persons such as yourself erroneously label people with such desires as deviants and dysfunctional just because of a precocious predilection for pornography. I find it amusing that you think children who are exposed to this sort of thing stick out like a sore thumb. Kids that aren't retarded who didn't grow up in a dysfunctional white trash trailer park would know what is a society norm and what isn't, therefore they keep their vices to themselves and most aren't wiser to it unless a digger such as your self goes to town on their private things.

 

[tortillasoup]

Kids who aren't given rules stick out like a sore thumb. Any parent who has a well behaved child can clearly and easily see the difference especially when it comes to subjects that are taboo for 99.9% of households at such an early age. Porn is the taboo - not talking about sex - because I know you're at the defense of all the poor 10 year olds who don't get to watch bang bus and casting couch. If someone brings up sex/porn/anything remotely related, the kids who are able to freely access it react completely differently and have a totally different attitude about it. The rest of the kids who know what it is but haven't been exposed ask an entirely different set of questions. I help run a baseball camp every summer for 10-12 year old kids and this is inevitably discussed among them at length. It's sad and pretty fucked up to hear a kid talk about what he 'wants to do' to the girls he knows. Meanwhile, the more innocent among them are still behaving like kids.

As I said before, the punishment for the 10 year old in my house is 'severe' because I know the cost of letting him focus on porn, which he will definitely do given the chance considering 1) he's male and 2) he has a pulse. It would rob him of a significant chunk of his innocence that he'll never get back because I know he's still a child at heart based on my daily interaction with him. When he grows into this naturally, then by all means he can start governing himself. Until then, it's my job to know the difference.

See this is more about YOUR feelings than anything else. I see this in parents all the time who desperately cling to the notion that their kids are still children and will arbitrarily push out that line between being a teenager and a child as far as they can because they don't want to see their baby grow up. "Robbing him of his innocence" is such a cop out BS reason. Both my mom and I loathed being children as we hated the way we were treated growing up. Just because you were a retard at 10 years old, doesn't mean everybody is. This is why age guidelines are flawed as they work for a lot but not everybody. A developmentally delayed person would have to wait significantly longer compared with a gifted person yet an arbitrary age does neither one of them any good.

If a kid is actively looking for pornography, their innocence has long left them. A kid that is smart enough can put on a facade of innocence as I unwittingly discovered when I accidentally showed my true colors to my dad at age 13. Now all I hear, over a decade later is how I lost my innocence at 13 when it was actually about 7 years earlier than that.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Dude, first of all, while I WAS exposed to that shit at a young age, I had no desire to watch that sort of thing. I think you're conflating that if people watch something, they'll continue to watch those things and will see them as normal/attractive. No true at all.

That's actually not what I said - at all. I see now why we can't come to any kind of agreement about this; it's because you don't understand cause and effect. I fully grasp the concept that a person can and will make decisions freely even with a predisposition, but as a parent I choose to exercise my right to steer them in what I (and the extreme majority of others) feel is the right direction. This has nothing to do with the crazy shit you're spouting.

I watched porn because I needed to watch it, no it wasn't the most vanilla stuff out there but it wasn't this abusive shit you're talking about either.

I have no idea how to respond to a person who thinks a 6 year old knows what they need to watch for the benefit of their long term social adjustment. This just goes to show what can happen to a kid who watches porn so early. Maybe your early addiction has something to do with your attitude toward porn because I seriously haven't heard someone talk like this in my whole life. Also, what I mentioned isn't even abusive compared to what a kid could easily find and that's my entire point. Whoosh.

So if the porn IS of "regular people" (what ever the fuck that means!) having sex, does that change anything?

Porn isn't of regular people and that's not what I said at all. It's the exact opposite of what I said, actually. You're confused about the mutual consent part. I understand now, though, that you're so confused because you think 6 year olds are mature enough to make the distinction between adults having preferences/fetishes and children being exposed to porn. Porn is entertainment for adults because they're experiences and opinions make them gravitate to things they find more specifically to their liking. If you show a 10 year old hardcore porn before they're done playing with ninja turtles, you're going to introduce a bias whether you understand that or not. It's not even all about that as I already said, but I think you glossed over that part.

Because that's mostly all I wanted to watch. I mean sure I'd like various positions and fellatio and all that crap but I was never interested in extreme behavior or whatnot and anybody who was probably has pre-existing conditions/circumstances anyhow and the porn isn't the cause, just the symptom of that.

Yeah... this sounds like what kids talk about. Have you ever been around a human child? I really think the answer must be no if you're trying to suggest that kids in elementary school have educated porn preferences.

Well I've always had the desire to have sex/watch porn since about 6 years old. FYI, I was not molested... Yet persons such as yourself erroneously label people with such desires as deviants and dysfunctional just because of a precocious predilection for pornography.

lol. You're just going off into the deep end now because you must feel defensive about the fact that you were spanking it to JJ before most kids even knew the word porn. I've said exactly NOTHING about labeling the kids as deviants. Those were your words, not mine.

I find it amusing that you think children who are exposed to this sort of thing stick out like a sore thumb.

It's actually not funny at all, but a person with such a fucked up worldview probably would find it humorous. Maybe if you weren't addicted to porn shortly after you weened you would understand what I'm saying. As soon as the topic comes up in a group of kids, it's painfully obvious which ones are in the know.

Kids that aren't retarded who didn't grow up in a dysfunctional white trash trailer park would know what is a society norm and what isn't, therefore they keep their vices to themselves and most aren't wiser to it unless a digger such as your self goes to town on their private things.

Please show me where I 'went to town on your private things' or asked you anything at all about your childhood. I realize you think it helps your argument to try to make me out to be some kind of deviant (thanks for the word inspiration), but I've said literally nothing even remotely close to what you just accused me of saying or doing. I can't recall a time in my entire life I've been a 'digger' (I'm just guessing at what that means because I didn't grow up with negligent parents who let 4chan instill my sense of morals). I made comments about parents who let their kids do this, not the kids themselves, which I maintain is negligent.

 

[MrDudeMan]

See this is more about YOUR feelings than anything else.

It's really not, but you can keep spouting that nonsense if it helps you feel adjusted. If you really think it's normal for a 4th grader to talk about money-shots, you're sense of reason is so far beyond normal that we're never going to find common ground.

I see this in parents all the time who desperately cling to the notion that their kids are still children and will arbitrarily push out that line between being a teenager and a child as far as they can because they don't want to see their baby grow up. "Robbing him of his innocence" is such a cop out BS reason. Both my mom and I loathed being children as we hated the way we were treated growing up. Just because you were a retard at 10 years old, doesn't mean everybody is. This is why age guidelines are flawed as they work for a lot but not everybody. A developmentally delayed person would have to wait significantly longer compared with a gifted person yet an arbitrary age does neither one of them any good.

If a kid is actively looking for pornography, their innocence has long left them. A kid that is smart enough can put on a facade of innocence as I unwittingly discovered when I accidentally showed my true colors to my dad at age 13. Now all I hear, over a decade later is how I lost my innocence at 13 when it was actually about 7 years earlier than that.

I would have tried to debate this before I read that you were addicted to porn at 6. I will say that I'm not the least bit interested in delaying his growth; those are, again, your words, not mine. I'm far more interested in having him get there in a way I deem responsible, which also happens to be the way every other parent I've ever met does it. That doesn't make it right automatically, but if you find yourself alone in an opinion, it's worthwhile to ask yourself some questions. What you're missing is that kids will latch onto adult things because they see adults doing them, but they lack the proper context, which is why parenting is a thing. Oh, and if your dad thinks you lost your innocence because of this, then clearly he agrees. He was still negligent for letting you have unfettered access to the internet, but his opinion clearly doesn't match yours.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Now all I hear, over a decade later is how I lost my innocence at 13 when it was actually about 7 years earlier than that.

He's not wrong in this, as some kids are just smarter about things and don't get caught. Kids are not innocent these days and anyone who thinks their kids are, is probably clueless. Think of yourself when you were a kid, I know people hate to look back, but yea.

 

[MrDudeMan]

He's not wrong in this, as some kids are just smarter about things and don't get caught. Kids are not innocent these days and anyone who thinks their kids are, is probably clueless. Think of yourself when you were a kid, I know people hate to look back, but yea.

This is, in a nutshell, my point. I'm more specifically talking about porn, but this is the general idea. I was mostly a good kid, but I still hid things from my parents like every other kid on the planet and I expect mine to be exactly the same. It's naive to think otherwise.

 

[tortillasoup]

That's actually not what I said - at all. I see now why we can't come to any kind of agreement about this; it's because you don't understand cause and effect. I fully grasp the concept that a person can and will make decisions freely even with a predisposition, but as a parent I choose to exercise my right to steer them in what I (and the extreme majority of others) feel is the right direction. This has nothing to do with the crazy shit you're spouting.



I have no idea how to respond to a person who thinks a 6 year old knows what they need to watch for the benefit of their long term social adjustment. This just goes to show what can happen to a kid who watches porn so early. Maybe your early addiction has something to do with your attitude toward porn because I seriously haven't heard someone talk like this in my whole life. Also, what I mentioned isn't even abusive compared to what a kid could easily find and that's my entire point. Whoosh.

But your opinion is based upon the foundation that nobody, at any age should watch porn. That's just as extreme position as what you're projecting my position to be. You seem to misunderstand that what people do publicly and privately are vastly different. You naively believe that because the media and people in general conversation say one thing that they actually do such things when statistics on porn usage suggest otherwise. Going off of what people say in everyday conversation, one would conclude that porn usage is extremely rare and that being racist is rare which is why there is such an outcry whenever someone is recorded making a mildly "racist" (factual) statement. Maybe you're one of the few people with no skeletons in their closet, I have no idea but if you knew everything there ever was to know about everyone, I think you'd be in for a rude awakening and be thoroughly disgusted.

Porn isn't of regular people and that's not what I said at all. It's the exact opposite of what I said, actually. You're confused about the mutual consent part. I understand now, though, that you're so confused because you think 6 year olds are mature enough to make the distinction between adults having preferences/fetishes and children being exposed to porn.

Porn could be considered anything that causes sexual arousal. Your distinction that porn isn't of regular people seems odd because if there was hidden camera footage of two people having sex, that would be considered porn by most people.

Porn is entertainment for adults because they're experiences and opinions make them gravitate to things they find more specifically to their liking. If you show a 10 year old hardcore porn before they're done playing with ninja turtles, you're going to introduce a bias whether you understand that or not. It's not even all about that as I already said, but I think you glossed over that part.

Nice you throw in the ninja turtles part. Yeah so I guess if you teach a child science in school, you're going to introduce a bias to them against creationism, therefore we shouldn't teach science in school, same logic. There is always going to be a "bias" if you're exposed to one set of beliefs over another set of beliefs, but so what? As long as the sex is between two happy, consenting persons (within reason) I don't see a problem. You on the other hand feel sex has to be a certain way and if it's not that way, it's deviant and evil... at least that's the impression I'm getting from you.

Yeah... this sounds like what kids talk about. Have you ever been around a human child? I really think the answer must be no if you're trying to suggest that kids in elementary school have educated porn preferences.

Like I said, you would be surprised and also it depends on the area. I remember my entire childhood like it was yesterday (insert joke about how it was yesterday) and it's true, if a child didn't expose themselves to that sort of thing, they won't go into heavy discussion about it.

I bet this discussion of child sexuality makes you extremely uncomfortable, doesn't it?

It's actually not funny at all, but a person with such a fucked up worldview probably would find it humorous. Maybe if you weren't addicted to porn shortly after you weened you would understand what I'm saying. As soon as the topic comes up in a group of kids, it's painfully obvious which ones are in the know.

It's not that I have a fucked up world view, it's just that the world is "fucked up". I was not sheltered as a child because I was actively seeking the truth every step of the way. When ever I saw an adult actively trying to shelter me from reality, it left an awful impression on me about how terrible it is to be a child due to the prejudice.

The worst part about growing up was being treated like a child by adults, a feeling both my mom and I share.

Please show me where I 'went to town on your private things' or asked you anything at all about your childhood. I realize you think it helps your argument to try to make me out to be some kind of deviant (thanks for the word inspiration), but I've said literally nothing even remotely close to what you just accused me of saying or doing. I can't recall a time in my entire life I've been a 'digger' (I'm just guessing at what that means because I didn't grow up with negligent parents who let 4chan instill my sense of morals). I made comments about parents who let their kids do this, not the kids themselves, which I maintain is negligent.

I think you misunderstood. What I was saying was, as a prying parent such as yourself, I'm calling you a digger because you would probably go through all of your child's personal belongings and punish them severely if you found porn in their possession. What I'm saying is, you don't imprison your child from the internet and the world under the naive notion that you're "protecting them" from the "evils of pornography". 4chan didn't even exist when I was growing up so whatever, didn't discover 4chan until I was like 22.

 

[TheVrolok]

Bullshit. There's absolutely no point in contributing to an argument or discussion if you don't care to project your opinion. That's the entire point of a discussion board... to discuss. I'm saying I'm willing to change my mind if there's a valid reason to do so because I actually try to learn something from discussions, but you've dodged every single statement I've made that was logical and defensible because you're gut feeling is that kids should be allowed to watch porn at 10 due to it 'not being that bad.' That's really what this is about regardless of your constant attempts to deflect into a more generalized failure of parenting. You don't have to care to change someone's opinion, but if you have an opinion, which you clearly do, you should be able to back it up when someone asks you to do so. Otherwise, it's worthless.

You're doing a significant amount of typing for your argument which is essentially, "I do not believe kids should see porn and I'm in the moral/ethical right." That's it. You rant and rant and rant, but that is the foundation of your "defensible" point; and it's subjective.

Kids who aren't given rules stick out like a sore thumb.

Didn't you just earlier say this argument was about watching porn, not about parenting? Now you're making it about generalized "rule breaking?"

When he grows into this naturally, then by all means he can start governing himself.

When does growing into it naturally occur?

 

[tortillasoup]

It's really not, but you can keep spouting that nonsense if it helps you feel adjusted. If you really think it's normal for a 4th grader to talk about money-shots, you're sense of reason is so far beyond normal that we're never going to find common ground.

It probably wouldn't be normal if that 4th grader talked about that with an adult but between kids, it's more normal than you think. Also, it's really irrelevant what's "normal" as it wasn't "normal" for a child to have a cellphone 20 years ago. Things change, and the only thing that's important is that kids don't grow up to be losers and I don't think porn is a factor in that.

I would have tried to debate this before I read that you were addicted to porn at 6. I will say that I'm not the least bit interested in delaying his growth; those are, again, your words, not mine. I'm far more interested in having him get there in a way I deem responsible, which also happens to be the way every other parent I've ever met does it. That doesn't make it right automatically, but if you find yourself alone in an opinion, it's worthwhile to ask yourself some questions. What you're missing is that kids will latch onto adult things because they see adults doing them, but they lack the proper context, which is why parenting is a thing.

See I never had porn at six, I didn't see porn until I was 11, but I had sexual urges since I was six as I was beating off at that age but couldn't complete because I had no access to porn. It was a horrible time.

Oh, and if your dad thinks you lost your innocence because of this, then clearly he agrees. He was still negligent for letting you have unfettered access to the internet, but his opinion clearly doesn't match yours.

Oh, actually it's even better than that... You see my dad thought I lost my innocence at 13 years old because I made some statements that showed my unfiltered perception of the world, albeit a jaded perception of things, but it was not because of porn... My dad even to this day doesn't know that I watch pornography. Your perception of who should watch porn (nobody should watch) actually closely mirrors that of my dad.

 

[MrDudeMan]

But your opinion is based upon the foundation that nobody, at any age should watch porn. That's just as extreme position as what you're projecting my position to be. You seem to misunderstand that what people do publicly and privately are vastly different. You naively believe that because the media and people in general conversation say one thing that they actually do such things when statistics on porn usage suggest otherwise. Going off of what people say in everyday conversation, one would conclude that porn usage is extremely rare and that being racist is rare which is why there is such an outcry whenever someone is recorded making a mildly "racist" (factual) statement. Maybe you're one of the few people with no skeletons in their closet, I have no idea but if you knew everything there ever was to know about everyone, I think you'd be in for a rude awakening and be thoroughly disgusted.

Nope and nope. And nope. I said I personally don't think people should watch porn, but I also said I wouldn't care nearly as much if a 15 year old was caught watching it. He can make that decision on his own and I'll give him my opinion, but that's the end of it. 10 is too early to make the decision, but I know you don't get that because you were liberated from the gut wrenching feeling of innocence at 6. You've taken it 10 steps too far like everything else. I have no idea how you could possibly know anything even remotely close to what you're saying you know about me based on one very specific discussion about a very specific thing. Bravo - you are a mind reader.

Porn could be considered anything that causes sexual arousal. Your distinction that porn isn't of regular people seems odd because if there was hidden camera footage of two people having sex, that would be considered porn by most people.

Yes, it would be, but only a moron would try to say that's the kind of porn someone would find on the internet in mass quantities with a google search. You're being disingenuous at best. Well, maybe not; you may actually believe this is a valid point given the circumstances of this argument. Amateur porn doesn't sell nearly as well because it's not nearly as good. Pro pornstars, while I don't think it's the definition of upstanding, are still pros at what they do for a reason: they sell video. That's what you're going to find if you look for porn because it's better quality than what you make with your mom in your basement.

Nice you throw in the ninja turtles part. Yeah so I guess if you teach a child science in school, you're going to introduce a bias to them against creationism, therefore we shouldn't teach science in school, same logic.

This is about porn, not religion. If you want to debate that, start another thread and I'll have whatever debate you want. The creation of the world and the effect of porn on a 10 year old aren't even remotely related. Give it up with the horrible analogies.

There is always going to be a "bias" if you're exposed to one set of beliefs over another set of beliefs, but so what? As long as the sex is between two happy, consenting persons (within reason) I don't see a problem. You on the other hand feel sex has to be a certain way and if it's not that way, it's deviant and evil... at least that's the impression I'm getting from you.

I've literally said the exact opposite opinion at least twice already, so if that's what you're getting it's because you can't read. You know absolutely nothing - ZILCH - about what I think is okay in terms of sex. Keep on with your stupid assumptions, though, because they're all you can muster as part of your mindfuck of an argument that has no consistency. You're hell bent on disparaging my personal beliefs even though I've repeatedly told you it's not about that.

I bet this discussion of child sexuality makes you extremely uncomfortable, doesn't it?

Not even a little bit. Discussing sexuality is perfectly normal and a person with a wildly skewed perception doesn't change that. I'm really talking about parenting while you're talking about sexuality, just to be clear.

It's not that I have a fucked up world view, it's just that the world is "fucked up". I was not sheltered as a child because I was actively seeking the truth every step of the way. When ever I saw an adult actively trying to shelter me from reality, it left an awful impression on me about how terrible it is to be a child due to the prejudice.

There it is. Everyone else is fucked up, but you're perfectly normal. I hope one day you read the ridiculous stuff you've written today and realize how it sounds.

The worst part about growing up was being treated like a child by adults, a feeling both my mom and I share.

You clearly needed to be treated like a child more so you could have experienced your childhood. It sounds like you pretended to have one while you were actually focused on furiously masturbating to porn. Saying your mom agrees with you means nothing because she essentially created your opinion by allowing you to have your run of the place. She's the one under the microscope at this point, not you, which is interesting because your dad obviously thinks you should have retained your innocence for a while longer.

I think you misunderstood. What I was saying was, as a prying parent such as yourself, I'm calling you a digger because you would probably go through all of your child's personal belongings and punish them severely if you found porn in their possession. What I'm saying is, you don't imprison your child from the internet and the world under the naive notion that you're "protecting them" from the "evils of pornography". 4chan didn't even exist when I was growing up so whatever, didn't discover 4chan until I was like 22.

I wouldn't go through my kids' stuff unless I felt like there was a good reason. If you think that's wrong, it speaks more strongly to your own issues than anyone else's because you clearly weren't parented enough. You're misapplying everything I say because your worldview is such that kids should have free reign. Look what good came from you not being treated like a child when you were a child - you can't understand the parent-child relationship unless it's on equal footing. It's not. Parents can be friends with their kids, but they have to be parents first until the kid is grown. At 10, you're still primarily a parent to your kid.

 

[MrDudeMan]

You're doing a significant amount of typing for your argument which is essentially, "I do not believe kids should see porn and I'm in the moral/ethical right." That's it. You rant and rant and rant, but that is the foundation of your "defensible" point; and it's subjective.

It takes a lot of typing to have a meaningful discussion, so that's a completely pointless thing to say and it doesn't at all negate any of my points. Also, don't put words in my mouth. A 10 year old kid is too young to watch porn and I asked very genuinely for someone to defend the opposing point of view. I also said if it can be defended that I'll change my opinion. Go read it for yourself if you chose to skip over that point the first time. If you can find good reasons to allow that behavior to happen, I'll genuinely consider it, but I've never heard, read, or thought of a single good reason to allow that behavior.

Didn't you just earlier say this argument was about watching porn, not about parenting? Now you're making it about generalized "rule breaking?"

You're right, but I was actually trying to talk about both as they relate to each other. To clarify, I'm trying to only talk about porn with respect to parenting. I guess I'm really talking about two things, but only one is about 'content' while the other is about 'methodology.' I'll stop saying that, but understand that's what I mean.

When does growing into it naturally occur?

I have no idea and I already said that. It varies from kid to kid, but there's no way the average kid at 10 is ready. I've been around small kids for long enough to know what's normal and regular viewing of porn is way beyond normal.

 

[MrDudeMan]

It probably wouldn't be normal if that 4th grader talked about that with an adult but between kids, it's more normal than you think. Also, it's really irrelevant what's "normal" as it wasn't "normal" for a child to have a cellphone 20 years ago. Things change, and the only thing that's important is that kids don't grow up to be losers and I don't think porn is a factor in that.

No, it's not more normal than I think. I was a 4th grader just like you were once and I rarely heard that kind of talk. I also spend a lot of time with elementary aged kids and I never hear anything even close to what we're discussing. If you spend enough time around kids, you hear the things they talk about privately when they think you can't.

See I never had porn at six, I didn't see porn until I was 11, but I had sexual urges since I was six as I was beating off at that age but couldn't complete because I had no access to porn. It was a horrible time.

You're right. That sounds like a perfectly normal 6 year old. Actually, it sounds sociopathic in case you missed the sarcasm.

Oh, actually it's even better than that... You see my dad thought I lost my innocence at 13 years old because I made some statements that showed my unfiltered perception of the world, albeit a jaded perception of things, but it was not because of porn... My dad even to this day doesn't know that I watch pornography. Your perception of who should watch porn (nobody should watch) actually closely mirrors that of my dad.

I don't think people should watch it because it isn't healthy. Its not because I have a vendetta against the porn industry or think it's such a travesty that anyone who partakes should be executed. Regardless, this isn't about me. I would make a similar argument about smoking.

 

[darkswordsman17]

What in the fuck is happening to this thread?

 

[MrDudeMan]

What in the fuck is happening to this thread?

At least it's on topic. Alkemyst hasn't showed up yet.

 

[Puppies04]

I heard Alky sold over 7 billion porno movies back in the 80's when he was a big mover and shaker.

He will be along to tell you all about it pretty soon I'm sure.

 

[TheVrolok]

You're right. That sounds like a perfectly normal 6 year old. Actually, it sounds sociopathic in case you missed the sarcasm.

Children start inadvertently pleasing themselves sexually at ages 3-5. Not because they're searching for sex, but because "hey, this feels good" and they keep doing it. Goal driven masturbation ("Because I want to orgasm") is not unique/novel by age 10. You also have no idea what sociopathic means, obviously.

It's quite clear that you don't understand what you're talking about in terms of child sexuality. Should children be force fed hardcore porn at a young age? Of course not. Is watching porn a reasonable behavior for 10 year olds? Yeah, pretty much. Should there be open discussion with parents about sex/porn at that age? Of course there should.

Then you link a few web articles that make conjectures based on research that doesn't actually have a formative positive or negative conclusion? Please.

Then your point is that you know because you've been around a lot of kids and know what's normal? The sooner you realize that your opinions are only that, the better. I'm not taking my time to educate you on child development and sexuality. There's a fair bit of literature out there.

 

[tortillasoup]

Nope and nope. And nope. I said I personally don't think people should watch porn, but I also said I wouldn't care nearly as much if a 15 year old was caught watching it. He can make that decision on his own and I'll give him my opinion, but that's the end of it. 10 is too early to make the decision, but I know you don't get that because you were liberated from the gut wrenching feeling of innocence at 6. You've taken it 10 steps too far like everything else. I have no idea how you could possibly know anything even remotely close to what you're saying you know about me based on one very specific discussion about a very specific thing. Bravo - you are a mind reader.

WHY is 15 OK but 10 is not? Is that because YOU started at 15 years old? What kind of stupid metric is that? At least my metric is qualitative vs. quantitative. I don't pick an age because people mature at different rates. I wouldn't expose somebody to pornography if they didn't already show an interest in it already regardless of age. Let's face it, you pick 10 because 10=elementary school. To you, it doesn't matter if that 10 year old is an emancipated adult who splits atoms with his home made nuclear reactor while raising a family of twin boys or if that 10 year old is severely mentally retarded who still wears a diaper and can't feed himself. The fact that they're 10 years old is a simplified metric that allows you to make decisions without a second thought.

Yes, it would be, but only a moron would try to say that's the kind of porn someone would find on the internet in mass quantities with a google search. You're being disingenuous at best. Well, maybe not; you may actually believe this is a valid point given the circumstances of this argument. Amateur porn doesn't sell nearly as well because it's not nearly as good. Pro pornstars, while I don't think it's the definition of upstanding, are still pros at what they do for a reason: they sell video. That's what you're going to find if you look for porn because it's better quality than what you make with your mom in your basement.

And what if I told you that if I had access to amateur porn that I would have been more than satisfied? Seriously if you came across your 10 year old's stash of amateur porn, what then? It seems you just don't like the fact that there are extreme types of porn in existence, that it's impossible to find amateur porn when in fact it's actually quite popular due to the whole "girl next door" effect which is what makes it a big draw. Amateur porn actually is a big problem for the porn industry, a bigger problem than you think. (lack of profits due to any camwhore posting to the web)

There it is. Everyone else is fucked up, but you're perfectly normal. I hope one day you read the ridiculous stuff you've written today and realize how it sounds.

I'm part of the world just as much as you are. World is fucked up, that's why I'm having this argument with you.

You clearly needed to be treated like a child more so you could have experienced your childhood. It sounds like you pretended to have one while you were actually focused on furiously masturbating to porn.

I didn't have porn as a child unless you consider 11 a child just as much as 6 years old is a child which in that case, you're an idiot. All I can say was that I experienced everything a child experienced but the difference was, I knew adults were trying to actively shelter me which I found to be incredibly insulting to my intelligence. Even at 14 years old, I had adults who would think that exposure to TEEN rated games was inappropriate regardless of the fact that I had been playing those games since I was 8. Everybody has their own metrics of decency and whatnot, that's why I'm attacking your standards and you're attacking mine.

Saying your mom agrees with you means nothing because she essentially created your opinion by allowing you to have your run of the place. She's the one under the microscope at this point, not you, which is interesting because your dad obviously thinks you should have retained your innocence for a while longer.

You're obsessed with innocence, like as if something magical happens by being sheltered from information. If you want to see what a group of people that are sheltered from reality is like, go look toward any totalitarian regime. If you've seen the movie the Island (2005) and see how the agnates were purposefully treated like children even though they were very clearly adults, sheltered from reality, that's exactly what I felt like as a child growing up.

I wouldn't go through my kids' stuff unless I felt like there was a good reason. If you think that's wrong, it speaks more strongly to your own issues than anyone else's because you clearly weren't parented enough. You're misapplying everything I say because your worldview is such that kids should have free reign. Look what good came from you not being treated like a child when you were a child - you can't understand the parent-child relationship unless it's on equal footing. It's not. Parents can be friends with their kids, but they have to be parents first until the kid is grown. At 10, you're still primarily a parent to your kid.

But your threshold for concern is so low in essence anything and everything is a pretext to your rifling through your kids shit. You're no better than the NSA and are more punitive than the country of England when it comes to porn. I'm not saying there aren't good reasons to go into your kids room but porn isn't one of them... almost ever. Anyway the whole discussion is centered around whether or not a child viewing porn is a problem. I'm saying it mostly isn't an issue especially if that child went the extra mile of seeking it out themselves vs. someone giving them such things. You're unable to prove that porn exposure at a younger age would do a disservice to children whether wittingly or unwittingly. My access to porn improved the quality of my life tremendously. To say it would reduce the quality of life for someone else is suspect at best.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Children start inadvertently pleasing themselves sexually at ages 3-5. Not because they're searching for sex, but because "hey, this feels good" and they keep doing it. Goal driven masturbation ("Because I want to orgasm") is not unique/novel by age 10. You also have no idea what sociopathic means, obviously.

Realizing you're a sexual being and needing to watch porn, as he espoused, are completely different things. If you're really trying to associate those two things, it's you who hasn't a clue. My son, who is 3, plays with himself all the time, but that's not what we're talking about and you know it.

It's quite clear that you don't understand what you're talking about in terms of child sexuality.

I understand enough to know what's normal behavior and what's not. Talking about it and acting on certain impulses is fine, but a porn addiction, which is what you're saying is normal, is absolutely anything but.

Is watching porn a reasonable behavior for 10 year olds? Yeah, pretty much.

It's definitely not reasonable. Seriously, instead of spouting off about this, go find something to back that up. You have the internet at your finger tips.

Have you seen a kid's movie with porn in it? I didn't think so. You must think everyone in the film business is stupid for not understanding childhood sexuality because clearly they should be fucking like rabbits in Despicable Me.

Should there be open discussion with parents about sex/porn at that age? Of course there should.

I already made this point multiple times. Talking is very different than giving a child unfettered access to youporn.

Then you link a few web articles that make conjectures based on research that doesn't actually have a formative positive or negative conclusion? Please.

It's very difficult to make strong conclusions about this kind of thing. However, data doesn't lie. If you search it yourself and don't see an obvious pattern, you're just ignoring the truth. I could find dozens of links showing similar statistics and you would dismiss them all, but you're going to be hard pressed to find a site showing zero negative associations with an addiction to porn. I'm willing to read it with an open mind if you can find it. To clarify, I know you didn't say an addiction was healthy, but that's what it will turn into if a small child is given access with no restrictions. They don't know how to limit themselves.

Then your point is that you know because you've been around a lot of kids and know what's normal? The sooner you realize that your opinions are only that, the better. I'm not taking my time to educate you on child development and sexuality. There's a fair bit of literature out there.

That's the definition of normal - what most people do. You don't actually need to spend any time educating me on child development because my wife is a board certified occupational therapist. I get more than enough from her. Her knowledge and accomplishments aren't my own, but only someone who isn't paying attention would remain completely ignorant of their spouse's profession.

 

[tortillasoup]

Realizing you're a sexual being and needing to watch porn, as he espoused, are completely different things. If you're really trying to associate those two things, it's you who hasn't a clue. My son, who is 3, plays with himself all the time, but that's not what we're talking about and you know it.

Your son, given the chance would/will after a certain age (unknown what age) engage in sexual acts with another person because he's programmed to do that. Whether that's before 10 yrs old is unknown. You say it's ok for someone to acknowledge that a person is a sexual being but it's not ok to NEED to masturbate (watch porn)? give me a break!

I understand enough to know what's normal behavior and what's not. Talking about it and acting on certain impulses is fine, but a porn addiction, which is what you're saying is normal, is absolutely anything but.

So what are your thoughts on kids playing doctor with each other? What if they, through experimentation go far enough to the point of penetration? Two 6 year olds doing this... Well you'd probably argue that if they were supervised, this wouldn't have happened... True but it's the inevitable result because that's what humans are programmed to do. Our puritanical society has just made it a rule to not associate sex with minors regardless of how the minors themselves are feeling/acting like. The idea of children engaging in sexual acts or watching them watch such acts makes adults uncomfortable because society has through conditioning, made ourselves to feel that way. Nobody wants to see their parents having sex just the same as parents seeing their children have sex. That's what this problem really revolves around. It's not about what's best for the kid, it's about making parents feel better about themselves and delaying the inevitable.


Children who are never exposed to ANY sexual content whatsoever would behave exactly like the agnates on the island, in that, if left alone would eventually engage in sexual acts as that's how things naturally progress. Society is the only thing stopping them just like society is the only thing stopping them from murdering each other as well... One is definitely harmful to people the other probably isn't but trying to prove that through studies is difficult due to prejudices and ingrained beliefs.

It's very difficult to make strong conclusions about this kind of thing. However, data doesn't lie. If you search it yourself and don't see an obvious pattern, you're just ignoring the truth. I could find dozens of links showing similar statistics and you would dismiss them all, but you're going to be hard pressed to find a site showing zero negative associations with an addiction to porn. I'm willing to read it with an open mind if you can find it.

Lies, Damn lies and Statistics. Statistics don't say shit.

That's the definition of normal - what most people do. You don't actually need to spend any time educating me on child development because my wife is a board certified occupational therapist. I get more than enough from her.

How often do you talk about sex with other adults? Not often, right? So what makes you think that you're going to hear every conversation about sex? Also it's entirely possible that kids were erroneously scared by adults into not talking about sex with others for fear of discipline. That doesn't mean they're not thinking about it though. Kids develop at different rates anyhow. In my school masturbation wasn't mutually agreed to be talked about in open until about 9th grade yet when you DID talk about it, we all found out that kids were secretly doing several years prior. The odd thing was, nobody would admit to masturbating but talking about getting BJs from girls or fucking girls in middleschool was perfectly alright. Funny double standards we had.

 

[TheVrolok]

It's definitely not reasonable. Seriously, instead of spouting off about this, go find something to back that up. You have the internet at your finger tips.

Have you seen a kid's movie with porn in it? I didn't think so. You must think everyone in the film business is stupid for not understanding childhood sexuality because clearly they should be fucking like rabbits in Dispicable Me.

... lol, not worth my time. Call it a victory of rhetoric if you'd like.

 

[amdhunter]

That 13 year old is going to get fucked up majorly especially if they wind up on a sex offender registry...

She better end up there too for creating and distributing child pornography. But somehow I bet that won't happen.

 

[darkswordsman17]

At least it's on topic. Alkemyst hasn't showed up yet.

:biggrin:

Carry on then.

 

[tortillasoup]

She better end up there too for creating and distributing child pornography. But somehow I bet that won't happen.

Well it has happened and if it does happen, I hope something changes so it can't happen again. (I don't mean by taking away the camera/phone/laptop/etc)