Parents: Better to push your child to be the big fish, or let them strive in mediocrity?

[slackerinabox]

I'm not actually asking strangers on the internet for actionable parenting advice, just thinking outloud about something that's been nagging at me. Once you notice great potential, is it better to push your child to be the best at the best (push them to be the top of the class, push them into highly competitive schools, and live an ultra competitive childhood), or let them coast with great grades in their mediocre local environment?

I ask this because I'm noticing that my oldest is striving and showing those tell tale signs of academic boredom. I've been there, and coasted through my local public school until my parents pushed me to first skip two grades then ace the exam for and attend one of the most highly regarded schools in the country, only for me to fall face first after the college level workload crushed then 11-14 year old me . Over 20 years I keep regretting not taking the perhaps easier route, coasting through my local highschool and then looking for prestige at the college level (my terrible gpa at the prestigious high school got me into a city college).

I keep wondering if I should just keep my daughter bored but coasting, or if that's some horrible squandering of potential. Some people from my hoity toity highschool went on to greatness but most ended up with ok but unspectacular lives. I think part of my conflict comes from being asian, it's in my DNA to think havard by 3rd grade or bust, i think!

 

[dullard]

I personally think children should be encouraged to reach their full potential, but not pushed. And let them actually be children at times too.

Other than a few specific careers, grades and school choices tend to have very little impact on life quality. A fancy high school generally gets you nothing other than a fancy alma mater letter asking for money. A fancy college can get you the same middle-management boredom career that a cheap public college will get you. What really matters is internal drive which comes from the parents and the way that the kids are raised far more than it comes from the school.

Instead of thinking about grades and schools, think about lifestyles. For example, a doctor that works 100 hours a week (plus on-call hours after they get home) might become wealthy. But at what cost? They can't enjoy their wealth. Whereas a physician's assistant career is 6-figures while working 40 hours a week. Help your child choose a career that will be rewarding financially and personally. Then pick a parenting style/school based off of that; not the other way around.

 

[vi edit]

How old? Kids develop and go through phases so fast it's hard to tell what they are going to be until they level out into their early to mid teen years. And even then, it just takes the wrong teacher or approach to ruin a striving kid into apathetic one. My big thing with my kids is just cracking down on pure laziness. Whether that is cleaning up after themselves, whining about chores or intentionally skipping out on homework, we crack down hard on that. That translates to grades since aptitude + work ethic is the real winning combination. Aptitude alone won't do it as course work and volume gets harder. However, if you don't have aptitude, but do have a solid work ethic you can usually slog your way through something and do ok. So that's where we really focus - are you really trying? If not, then try. I'm not hammering on my kids to get straight A's. I'm hammering on them when they just got lazy and didn't turn in homework or halfassed their way through a project and got a bad grade. I think encouraging effort ends up with better results than pushing for better results by themselves.

 

[Darwin333]

I disagree about the high school part but that is probably location dependent. Around here the public schools are absolutely horrible and I couldn't in good conscience send my child to one so despite being an atheist and not wanting my children indoctrinated into religion, I send them to a Catholic school.

 

[renz20003]

Let them make their own way. The losers will sink and the cream will rise to the top.

 

[FeuerFrei]

Public schools aren't known for their rigorous academics. They target the slowest minds so no one is left behind.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Let them make their own way. The losers will sink and the cream will rise to the top.

The whole point of education should be to create challenges and give a broader perspective. Policies based towards entire populations are guaranteed to fail on the individual level.

 

[pauldun170]

If as parents, you demonstrate curiosity, enthusiasm and work ethic though out their lives then it tends to rub off pretty nicely. Not a lot of pushing required. Just a little coaching every once in awhile. Provide some structure. Set limits and make sure they eat and sleep properly.

If you're seen spending most of your time watching TV or staring at your phone or blabbing on about things of little value then don't be surprised when your kids do the same.

As vi edit mentioned, just be ready to intervene when they start slacking. Sometimes "outside influences" can have negative impact.


As for challenges in a public school environment, we have advance programs here and lots of clubs. Toss in outside activities such as community service, scouts, "various groups" and their is plenty of stuff to keep kids challenged.

 

[Brainonska511]

Public schools aren't known for their rigorous academics. They target the slowest minds so no one is left behind.

Depends where you are. In my part of the country, public schools are known to be top notch.

 

[mindless1]

The answer isn't simple. Usually when a child excels in some areas, others are weaker. For example social skills and I don't just mean around people JUST LIKE THEM, I mean dealing with the real world in an unsupervised environment.

In this case it can be damaging to the child to move them forward to have peers who are older children, especially if it's a selective school where these older children are developmentally where your child will be two years later.

Probably best to keep her at the local high school if she has friends there, get great grades and focus on being well rounded and good credentials to get into a good college which is where the performance matters much more.

Being bored is not a bad thing necessarily, means less time spent on homework so more free time to pursue other things, but let the child decide which things, not placing more burden on them without an obligation to provide the rewards for it. There should be rewards along the way, not just some great hope of a great future "some day".

 

[shortylickens]

My parents pushed me.

I ended up unemployed and miserable.
So, think about that.

 

[Exterous]

A lot of this is going to depend on the child's personality and temperament as well. Some don't do as well in the more heavily structured HS environments and otherwise stellar HS students can flounder in the more unstructured college experience let alone the 'real world'. I think its more important to focus on skills and thought processes that can be widely applied. Good critical thinking and logic skills allow you to tackle more opportunities and challenges in life than knowing what year the Whiskey Rebellion started. You won't be able to teach them every answer so far better to give them the tools to figure things out on their own.

I think its common for many people to wonder if things would be better if they had done things differently but part of growing up is learning by experience and success is tricky to judge. If you had taken the easier route maybe you wouldn't have met your wife? (And that might be a good or bad thing) Or you might have gone down a path that seemed brighter at first but ended up in a much darker spot. How do you compare the guy with the fancy car, big house and expensive wine collection with the guy with an average house, average car and no wine collection? How do you know which one is more in love with his SO, gets more satisfaction out of their job or who will has more manageable debt?

I've also seen plenty of people end up in different places from their HS personalities. There's the drug dealer who is now a happily married mother of 2 and elementary school teacher. The former bully Realtor who delivers Meals on Wheels most days hes not showing houses and coaches softball. The HS slacker with a C- average who owns his own HVAC company and pulls in six figures easily. Along side those is the Salutatorian who lost out on a full ride scholarship because he found alcohol and drugs his first year in college and the straight A honor roll girl who went to college and could have done a great many things but has worked a low paying job she apparently hates for years.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

to be honest, I think the main emphasis that needs to be clarified for kids is that it is a competitive dog-eat-dog world. If you keep telling them that it is a fantasy world of pixie dust and unicorns, that is what they will grow up to perceive. Teach them to understand that your ability to get a college degree does not directly translate to a well-paying career.

Parents are the ultimate root of the problem here - which then translates to the stupidity of children when they hit the real world. Sorry kiddos, globalism isn't the magical fun-land your yuppie liberal-arts professors made it out to be when you wanted to become employed.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I think its common for many people to wonder if things would be better if they had done things differently but part of growing up is learning by experience and success is tricky to judge.

Have fun finding that bullshit equilibrium when you have a criminal record from one fuck-up and no reputable employer wishes to hire you. You will be forever fucked for your one "learning experience". I'm not saying it's the right way to do things - but it's absolutely true. So don't feed that bullshit of learning from experience.

Because you know as well as I do that it's a load of shit that is guaranteed to fail in our society.

 

[mindless1]

^ Experience still falls within the obligations of obeying laws.

If someone doesn't accept that, ?? Too much risk to employ... depends on what it was. If you feel comfortable with what you did but the employer doesn't, there you go, not a good match.

You could say it isn't fair, but then the person who made extra effort not to get into trouble would disagree. That might make them a better candidate for employment due to having better judgement, which is not necessarily something that shows up on an academic record. There are serial killers who could present a good resume if they omitted that they kill people.

Two candidates with equal credentials but one has a criminal record, who would you hire? Gone is the era where an education or experience is rare, and many things on a resume are recognized as puffing, someone trying to make nonsense look more important after the fact than it was at the time.

I do think that it may not be fair that people judge too quickly, but it is what it is. It is something to emphasize to children, how important it is to keep a clean criminal record !! "IF" your goals depend on one.

I don't make the rules, am just an interpreter...

 

[Exterous]

Have fun finding that bullshit equilibrium when you have a criminal record from one fuck-up and no reputable employer wishes to hire you. You will be forever fucked for your one "learning experience". I'm not saying it's the right way to do things - but it's absolutely true. So don't feed that bullshit of learning from experience.

Because you know as well as I do that it's a load of shit that is guaranteed to fail in our society.

Yeah its not a black and white you do well in school or you get a criminal record when you try and learn from experience. I'd hazard to guess that billions of people have managed to learn from experiences without getting a criminal record

 

[Ventanni]

The mistake parents make when they "push" their children to academic, spiritual, or athletic excellence is they base their love for their child on their performance or achievements. Whenever you do that to kids, or anyone for that matter, you create a whole muckery of problems. They often make hyper-productive members of society, but they lack one thing; the ability to truly love in a meaningful way. It's rinse and repeat with their children too, because that's all they know. The same happens when you see parents "living" through the success or achievements of their kids. It's a complete mess.

Encouraging your kid to achieve excellence in the field or profession of their choice (within reason) is a great thing. It helps keep them interested, it shows your children that you're interested in their interests and who they are, and for many kids, what they really want and are looking for is guidance on how to achieve those said things. In my management years, one of the things I realized when dealing with millennials in the work place is that they were really just looking for guidance on things.

 

[slackerinabox]

Public schools aren't known for their rigorous academics. They target the slowest minds so no one is left behind.

We actually sent her to private school but found the education lacking. NYC is actually blessed (well, non ghetto parts) with public schools that do a good job catering to different skill levels and backgrounds instead of lumping the slow learners with the superstars, which they did in her parochial school. I know it's very, very different in other locales for sure

 

[FeuerFrei]

The mistake parents make when they "push" their children to academic, spiritual, or athletic excellence is they base their love for their child on their performance or achievements. Whenever you do that to kids, or anyone for that matter, you create a whole muckery of problems. They often make hyper-productive members of society, but they lack one thing; the ability to truly love in a meaningful way. It's rinse and repeat with their children too, because that's all they know. The same happens when you see parents "living" through the success or achievements of their kids. It's a complete mess.

You're right, it IS a "mistake" to parent that way.
At the same time, I hesitate to condemn parents for wishing their children to succeed where they themselves failed. I know it can go astray and get obsessive, but ... they may, or may not, be "living vicariously."
I guess I hate to see anyone stop caring how their kids perform because they're afraid of going overboard.

We actually sent her to private school but found the education lacking. NYC is actually blessed (well, non ghetto parts) with public schools that do a good job catering to different skill levels and backgrounds instead of lumping the slow learners with the superstars, which they did in her parochial school. I know it's very, very different in other locales for sure

'Round here kids transfer out of public, into private schools and start complaining how much harder it is.

 

[eng2d2]

kids are a lottery and behavior is very much genetics.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Let kids be kids. Today's world seems to obsessed with "striving to be on the top" and constantly pushing kids, and adults, to be "the best". Life is too short for that. Enjoy the good things in life and slow down. Even as an adult, what is the point of always pushing yourself? You'll die anyway at some point. School is so you can get a job, and a job is so you can pay your bills. Life should not revolve around those things. At least that's always how I saw it. When I was in school, I was happy to get a B. Yeah an A was nice, but if I needed to spend 40+ hours of work to get that A, when 20 hours of work will get me a B, I'd go for the B.

 

[Mai72]

In Korea they make their kids study 18 hours a day!

Do that!

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Let kids be kids. Today's world seems to obsessed with "striving to be on the top" and constantly pushing kids, and adults, to be "the best". Life is too short for that. Enjoy the good things in life and slow down. Even as an adult, what is the point of always pushing yourself? You'll die anyway at some point. School is so you can get a job, and a job is so you can pay your bills. Life should not revolve around those things. At least that's always how I saw it. When I was in school, I was happy to get a B. Yeah an A was nice, but if I needed to spend 40+ hours of work to get that A, when 20 hours of work will get me a B, I'd go for the B.

Yeah no worries or anything - the job market is just going to go to total shit for automation. But who cares! Flip burgers while you can! Yay!

That is the exact problem - the world isn't fun, it isn't fair, and humans are naturally competitive. If you live with that type of mentality, it always ends up with young life spilling over into adulthood. To each their own, I guess I just hold my kids to higher standards than a lifetime career of burger flipping and playing xbox all day.

 

[slackerinabox]

to be honest, I think the main emphasis that needs to be clarified for kids is that it is a competitive dog-eat-dog world. If you keep telling them that it is a fantasy world of pixie dust and unicorns, that is what they will grow up to perceive. Teach them to understand that your ability to get a college degree does not directly translate to a well-paying career.

Parents are the ultimate root of the problem here - which then translates to the stupidity of children when they hit the real world. Sorry kiddos, globalism isn't the magical fun-land your yuppie liberal-arts professors made it out to be when you wanted to become employed.

I think that's where th

Let kids be kids. Today's world seems to obsessed with "striving to be on the top" and constantly pushing kids, and adults, to be "the best". Life is too short for that. Enjoy the good things in life and slow down. Even as an adult, what is the point of always pushing yourself? You'll die anyway at some point. School is so you can get a job, and a job is so you can pay your bills. Life should not revolve around those things. At least that's always how I saw it. When I was in school, I was happy to get a B. Yeah an A was nice, but if I needed to spend 40+ hours of work to get that A, when 20 hours of work will get me a B, I'd go for the B.

I think somewhere there is the heart of my personal dilemma. I'm living a much more .. slackerly life than my father did - I'm enjoying that time with my family and children, but there's a lot of guilt when I look at all the other indians and theire 3000 sq. feet homes compared to my 800 sq. ft coop. My dad came from literally a mud shack and worked his ass off to make something of himself, then earned his way to america under a special visa for engineers. I flunked out of nursing school and instead have a useless degree and do meh financially in a sales job... I couldn't imagine doing what he did, and was pushed by him to greatness that I didn't accomplish because I may have had the intelligence (i doubt it more yearly), but didn't have the drive... And I guess the pressure is to resurrect that drive vicariously through my little one, for her to accomplish what i didn't.. But here's the thing, she's already accomplishing what I couldn''t - i was always weird, too young for class, and lonely - she has friends, tons of them who hug her when she gets to school. I never, ever had that- all while getting straight As. I guess I'm full of a lot of regret myself that I have to work out, but repeating my parent's mistake isn't going to fix anything. Though, yeah, not like hang myself after too much vodka self hate - I love my wife and she's hotter than any of the nerd wives from my old HS, finding her had a lot to do with partying a little too heavily in my 20s. Everything happens for a reason, I get all of that and appreciate all the comments here.. Gives me lots to think about.

 

[eng2d2]

Why would it matter if your peers have a 3000 sq house? Everyone can buy a 3000 sq house.