Paranoid re Writes to my SSD

[Virgorising]

I've seen so many hard drives die that I jumped on SSDs as soon as they were affordable. Having no finely-tuned mechanical parts is a good thing. I think it's just scary to people to see a part lifetime listed so precisely. Sure you'd see drives before with MTBF but that wasn't helpful at all to an individual so for the most part people ignored that.

Good comments!

 

[Virgorising]

My very first SSD, an Intel 80GB X25 Gen 1 drive still has 93% of its available wear available. Its been in my main PC, then relegated to my work laptop where it got a lot more abuse, then into a work machine where it was abused even more, out to india into a different work machine in a very hot place, then back and into another work place in an eSata enclosure and now it sits on my NAS as the boot and system drive. This thing will probably be living and working in the world long than I am, it will probably outlast the SATA connection itself by some margin.

Wow. And first generation!!!!!! Babe, U lucked out bigtime!!!!:thumbsup:

 

[Virgorising]

Anyone have a Plextor drive? I have an M3 256GB, had it for probably almost 2 years. I leave my computer on a lot... it has 13,318 hours on it but I can't for the life of me get to see the read/write details with SSDlife, plextools, crystaldiskinfo etc, none of them show me that data.

Welcome to the club of paranoid SSD owners. I feel U. I also run diagnostic apps compulsively. Perhaps, if U put up a screenie of the results running one, storage pundits here (there are many real ones) might be able to interpret in greater detail?

I do think feeling guilty downloading mega uTube videos, converting and burning them... is a very sad thing, tho, and I need to work to get over that.

 

[Virgorising]

Like the OP, I can't get total hist writes, only % life, with an M500. With almost a year of not caring about conserving writes, it still hasn't dropped by 1%. My other SSDs have not gotten any meaningful amount of writes, in comparison.

Yes! Wut is that? Should we ask Crucial?

 

[Cerb]

Yes! Wut is that? Should we ask Crucial?

Ask what? They have it documented. For whatever reason, they don't expose NAND written directly.

 

[Virgorising]

Ask what? They have it documented. For whatever reason, they don't expose NAND written directly.

O! Well, I did not know that before this second! And that's something really important to know.

 

[Virgorising]

Late Update: Just ran AS SSD Benchmark for first time in forever. This little drive is even faster than when I installed it. A little. And I could feel that before I ran this app. VERY fast even within the limitations of my board's SATA 2 Intel controllers.

I really do need to get rid of my paranoia.:|

Now, I will send my worrying to the recycle bin, hit empty, and download my new list of giant uTube videos, convert and burn them.

 

[Virgorising]

Late update:
Paranoia takes time to mitigate. so, I just ran Speed Fan and then hit its SMART diagnostics for this drive. I like the results, both re my chip and this drive, tho re the drive, they are missing the details SSD Life offers....so I am investing in these.

 

[Cerb]

You could crop those, you know.

But, anyway, the M500 does now report writes, and has for some time, it seems.

246 is host writes.
247 is host programs, and 248 is NAND programs.
1+(248/247) = WA

I can't verify it in their docs, but the numbers match for 16KB pages, and 512B sectors (246/247 = 31.5, where 32 would be expected for 512B sectors).

It's late and all, but I think 247 and 248, divided by 2^26, should give approximately actual host and device writes, in TB. I get 5.65TB total, using that, which seems in the right ballpark, to me.

Hex are default, as many drives have values where one or two bytes are for part of a value, then the other bytes are for another part of it, and need to be treated separately. But, for values where that isn't the case, have the program show you decimals, to make them easier to use.

For yours, I get 2.47 WA, and 2.72TB writes, assuming the values above are correct.

 

[Virgorising]

You could crop those, you know.

Hi, Cerb! They are cropped.

But, anyway, the M500 does now report writes, and has for some time, it seems.

Well, as it appeared to me, but someone here said otherwise. Thing is, I had a trial of SSD Life pro and it expired. So I then got another copy of the free version which does not let me engage SMART.

I can't verify it in their docs, but the numbers match for 16KB pages, and 512B sectors (246/247 = 31.5, where 32 would be expected for 512B sectors). It's late and all, but I think 247 and 248, divided by 2^26, should give approximately actual host and device writes, in TB. I get 5.65TB total, using that, which seems in the right ballpark, to me. Hex are default, as many drives have values where one or two bytes are for part of a value, then the other bytes are for another part of it, and need to be treated separately. But, for values where that isn't the case, have the program show you decimals, to make them easier to use. For yours, I get 2.47 WA, and 2.72TB writes, assuming the values above are correct.

Many thanks for this brilliance and the time invested in evolving it! Now, I will see if I can get another trial version of the pro and run it again. I do, tho, think I am being paranoid. Pretty much.

 

[Virgorising]

K....got another copy of pro....for however long. I think/hope I am OK; why should I stop downloading often movie length videos from uTube when that is a happy part of my life and I never gave it a second thought with my mechanical drives?

I am not sure to what extent the predicted lifespan element in SSD Life is valid, if it can be trusted at all....OR how my writes compare with a given average. I would like to know these things.

 

[Cerb]

Well, as it appeared to me, but someone here said otherwise.

Probably me! The early firmware did not, which is why the drive was passed on for that big endurance test. That's been fixed for much longer than I've known that it has been fixed, it appears.

Thing is, I had a trial of SSD Life pro and it expired. So I then got another copy of the free version which does not let me engage SMART.

I just use CrystalDiskInfo, for SMART, on Windows. It stays fairly up to date, and has tables for different custom values on drives. Function -> Advance Feature -> Raw Values sets dec/hex options. Some values are commonly 2/4 or 2/2/2. Temperature, FI, reads as 39 22 31 (highest, lowest, current, deg C), in Dec - 2 byte.

As you can see, it is also very Japanese. I also notice now it shows total host writes, so I didn't have to go calculating it from host sector writes.
And only 525hrs...way to go, sleep modes!

I am not sure to what extent the predicted lifespan element in SSD Life is valid, if it can be trusted at all

In terms of expected aging, ???.

P.S. I did make a mistake with the numbers. Yours can't be 329..., and mine 646..., without a difference of about 50% in writes, min.

So, that's 1.83TB written. Assuming:
>3000 p/e NAND
240GB = 223.5GiB
End of life NAND writes = 223.5*3000 = 670500
WAF = 2.47
Actual NAND writes = 2.47*1.83TB = 4629GB
% used = 100*(4629/670500) = 0.69%
So, you've used about 1/140th of the lifetime, if it's rated for 3,000 p/e, if the above numbers don't have anything wrong in them.

 

[nk215]

Do the numbers make sens? your power on number seems too high for the work time. Do you really turn off your computer every .5 hrs? Mine SSD (on this current computer): 1 year 1 month and powered on 845 times. 8.6 years left.

 

[Virgorising]

robably me! The early firmware did not, which is why the drive was passed on for that big endurance test. That's been fixed for much longer than I've known that it has been fixed, it appears.

Ahah! FABULOUS! (Go, Crucial!)

In terms of expected aging, ???.

Yes, but the real issue for me is sudden failure with no warning. Alll my life, so far, I have had only one impending drive failure, and the second I heard the clicking, I knew and was able to save my data.

I get lazy and do not do update clones from my SDD to my backup WD Black as often as I used to....now, maybe every 2 weeks or maybe more, tho it takes like 15 minutes.

So, you've used about 1/140th of the lifetime, if it's rated for 3,000 p/e, if the above numbers don't have anything wrong in them.

Wow.

I am humbled by the understanding behind yr calculations (they elude me), but the conclusion is amazing. Truth is re drives, I relate to those with moving parts and size and weight. Never had these issues with phones, etc., only drives.

I need to chill re these concerns.

Thanks so much!

 

[Virgorising]

Do the numbers make sens? your power on number seems too high for the work time. Do you really turn off your computer every .5 hrs? Mine SSD (on this current computer): 1 year 1 month and powered on 845 times. 8.6 years left.

I know! They don't makes sense to me either!!!! but I assumed that owed to my ignorance of the specifics and inability to interpret.

I turn this system off when I am finished using it, and then, pull the surge strip from the wall (always did this with desktops and will continue to) I believe it's on and in use, average 8 hours a day.

Once in a while I need to turn it on briefly.....but only once in a while.

I am still finding all this stuff confusing....even daunting. Truth is, I still have trust issues with this wee thing. ALL these wee storage things.:|

 

[Virgorising]

Guys....I now need to get what Cerb uses and put up screenie of the GUI with the Anime: Crystal Disk Info. But they have many apps. Do I need to get the Japanese looking one only? Shizuku? But those not as good as American made ones like Harley Davidson and Indian.:biggrin::sneaky:

http://crystalmark.info/download/index-e.html

 

[Cerb]

I'm not even sure what the different editions have that makes the sizes so different, TBH.

 

[Virgorising]

I'm not even sure what the different editions have that makes the sizes so different, TBH.

I know! Well I move fast, so I got the one I thought I should get via Major Geeks, but it has no anime so must not be the right one.....ran it, but have no clue at all....I think this was the wrong one.

Hold on please....can not expand the GUI of the thing to show all the info, so had to make new screenie to show lower stuff not seen in the now, top one.

 

[Cerb]

I know! Well I move fast, so I got the one I thought I should get via Major Geeks, but it has no anime so must not be the right one.....ran it, but have no clue at all....I think this was the wrong one.

Maybe the small one doesn't have the cutesy backgrounds.

 

[Virgorising]

Maybe the small one doesn't have the cutesy backgrounds.

:biggrin:
________________________________
Edit: here's the insane part: I keep getting things to try to get clear on the condition of this wee drive, if my writes are off the chain excessive, etc. I run them as I just did that new (but maybe wrong) one, each time with the expectation that when the results appear, I will UNDERSTAND THEM.

So far, has not happened once.:|

 

[Virgorising]

Among the things I run compulsively in the hopes I will, any second now, get clear on the health, the reality of this drive, Perfect Disk. Yes, I still have it set to SDD Optimize in the background, I think it helps TRIM.

It now hovers around 95.1%. However irrationally, I would like to see it close to 100% where it started out when I first installed it. Why? I do not know.
____________________________________________
Edit: I will how share something which will prove just how insane I am about this stuff; Not insane enuff to have followed up, but could happen any second.

The idea hovering is: I boot into my backup WD drive and optimize it using Perfect Disk it so it is 100% perfect and, with the BOOT FILES, properly AT THE BEGINNING where I like to see them.

Then, I do a whole new clean clone of that perfection to the weee drive. See that? How crazy? Only reason I have not gone forth: would mean writing 131 GBs to the wee drive in one fell swoop, tho the wee drive wold be clean before the write. But it could still happen at any minute. Cause would be like the wee drive got reborn. Irrational? Perhaps, but it APPEALS TO ME.

 

[Virgorising]

One more just to get clear on this part: re the cray idea which never leaves the HDD in my brain, as described above: if I moved forth with that, would that help the little drive or hurt it?
___________________________________________
So far no opinions on this?:$ Is it cause my wonderful idea lurking is stupid?

K....I know they say flash memory don care about fragging, so who cares if it's 95.1%, but not all of me believes it. Are we positive about that? That re flash memory it's moot?

 

[Essence_of_War]

There is no known benefit to de-fragmenting SSDs, and I'm suspicious of what exactly some third party software is doing that a modern OS issuing TRIM commands, and a modern SSD controller isn't doing on their own. The controller knows how to move data around to wear-level, and between TRIM and garbage collection, it will take care of itself as far as long term performance goes. The only thing you can do to your SSD at this point that will actually make a performance difference is to make sure that you leave some free space on it, preferably like 10-25% of the maximum capacity. Your SSD will thank you, it will improve both performance and long-term endurance, and you won't have to worry about what some black-box software is doing for "ssd-optimization".

 

[Virgorising]

There is no known benefit to de-fragmenting SSDs, and I'm suspicious of what exactly some third party software is doing that a modern OS issuing TRIM commands, and a modern SSD controller isn't doing on their own. The controller knows how to move data around to wear-level, and between TRIM and garbage collection, it will take care of itself as far as long term performance goes. The only thing you can do to your SSD at this point that will actually make a performance difference is to make sure that you leave some free space on it, preferably like 10-25% of the maximum capacity. Your SSD will thank you, it will improve both performance and long-term endurance, and you won't have to worry about what some black-box software is doing for "ssd-optimization".

Yes, of course....I've known for years all you share.

Nobody here is defragging any SDD.

Raxco does not make black box software. Quite the opposite. Raxco is long established and formidable.

I delved long and hard before I decided on what I did.

http://download.raxco.com/perfectdisk-ssd-optimization

http://blog.raxco.com/2014/04/07/ev...ed-to-know-about-ssds-but-were-afraid-to-ask/

 

[Essence_of_War]

So if we aren't talking about defragging SSDs, what exactly are these percentages that you're using to diagnose your drive's health?

It now hovers around 95.1%. However irrationally, I would like to see it close to 100% where it started out when I first installed it. Why? I do not know.

Aren't you referring to something like "percent of file's fragmented"?

If you want to write 130+ GB of data to your drive just to see a small percentage in perfectdisk increase, go ahead, it's your drive, and your time and whatnot, but it sounds like you're already doing the most important things for your SSD :
1) Leaving free space
2) Enabling TRIM
3) Not writing too much more than an average of 10 GB/day

If I were in the same position as you, I wouldn't worry about it.