Pandemic Flu Thread:3-11-07 Bird Flu deaths increasing

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NeoV

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
9,504
2
81
wow Pabster, you've set a record for most times being made to look like a fool in one thread...

terrorism deaths aren't counted properly - um...ok, do you still think they make up even 1% of the amount of people killed by the flu each year? They don't...get over it...funny how you pick on the guardian link, but not the next link that was this administration's count of terrorism-related deaths...then you make a pathetic attempt at saying "all the terrorist-related deaths aren't categorized correctly....you know, because all of the deaths caused by the flu are......

then you just bail out altogether and say it isn't about numbers, it's about the reality of the threat....I don't think anyone denies that terrorism is some sort of threat...but it's utterly moronic of you to say that this particular strain of flu isn't a threat because for some stupid-4ss reason you think's it's liberal to think that...this is a global issue, not a left or right issue - get your head out of your right wing talking points memo directed life and see that, then stop making half-4ssed posts here doing nothing but spouting the same bs over and over.

Vic, you couldn't be more wrong. This flu isn't the same flu that happened in 1918, period. Does it have similarities? Yes, it does. But it is VERY REAL and it is a threat. SARS is nothing compared to the potential devistation caused if this virus gains the ability to be passed from person to person. You guys watch Wag-the-Dog too much if you think this is some big ploy...the companies that make these vaccines are doing quite well without this.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Originally posted by: NeoV
Vic, you couldn't be more wrong. This flu isn't the same flu that happened in 1918, period. Does it have similarities? Yes, it does. But it is VERY REAL and it is a threat. SARS is nothing compared to the potential devistation caused if this virus gains the ability to be passed from person to person. You guys watch Wag-the-Dog too much if you think this is some big ploy...the companies that make these vaccines are doing quite well without this.
I understand that the viruses are not the same but supposedly similar. My point was that people are being told that the threat is the same.

Who cares if they are doing quite well? Are you saying that they don't want to do better? And why shouldn't people think it's a ploy? How many ploys have we been through in the past? Every fsckin' year is the big one. OMG wolf!!!
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: NeoV
Vic, you couldn't be more wrong. This flu isn't the same flu that happened in 1918, period. Does it have similarities? Yes, it does. But it is VERY REAL and it is a threat. SARS is nothing compared to the potential devistation caused if this virus gains the ability to be passed from person to person. You guys watch Wag-the-Dog too much if you think this is some big ploy...the companies that make these vaccines are doing quite well without this.
I understand that the viruses are not the same but supposedly similar. My point was that people are being told that the threat is the same.

Who cares if they are doing quite well? Are you saying that they don't want to do better? And why shouldn't people think it's a ploy? How many ploys have we been through in the past? Every fsckin' year is the big one. OMG wolf!!!

A ploy? Vic, this is my field of expertise. There is a real threat. What is unknown is the scale of it. It is far more likely that there is a handful of oil companies dictating wars and setting market prices than this being a "ploy". Am I going to hide because of it? Well no, but then again NO will never be under water. I will be getting the vaccination.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: NeoV
Vic, you couldn't be more wrong. This flu isn't the same flu that happened in 1918, period. Does it have similarities? Yes, it does. But it is VERY REAL and it is a threat. SARS is nothing compared to the potential devistation caused if this virus gains the ability to be passed from person to person. You guys watch Wag-the-Dog too much if you think this is some big ploy...the companies that make these vaccines are doing quite well without this.
I understand that the viruses are not the same but supposedly similar. My point was that people are being told that the threat is the same.

Who cares if they are doing quite well? Are you saying that they don't want to do better? And why shouldn't people think it's a ploy? How many ploys have we been through in the past? Every fsckin' year is the big one. OMG wolf!!!
A ploy? Vic, this is my field of expertise. There is a real threat. What is unknown is the scale of it. It is far more likely that there is a handful of oil companies dictating wars and setting market prices than this being a "ploy". Am I going to hide because of it? Well no, but then again NO will never be under water. I will be getting the vaccination.
There is ALWAYS a real threat. I wasn't discounting that. There is no safety this side of the grave. There is always a real threat in everything you do. Just walking is risking your neck. Let's not even get started on the very real threat involved in driving or riding in a car.
The ploy is the fear.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,986
1
0
Originally posted by: NeoV
terrorism deaths aren't counted properly - um...ok, do you still think they make up even 1% of the amount of people killed by the flu each year? They don't...get over it...funny how you pick on the guardian link, but not the next link that was this administration's count of terrorism-related deaths...then you make a pathetic attempt at saying "all the terrorist-related deaths aren't categorized correctly....you know, because all of the deaths caused by the flu are......

Wrong. I never said ALL flu deaths were categorized and counted correctly. I simply stated it was easier to get those figures than the figures relating to terrorism and terrorism-related activities. How does that crow taste?

then you just bail out altogether and say it isn't about numbers, it's about the reality of the threat....I don't think anyone denies that terrorism is some sort of threat...but it's utterly moronic of you to say that this particular strain of flu isn't a threat because for some stupid-4ss reason you think's it's liberal to think that...this is a global issue, not a left or right issue - get your head out of your right wing talking points memo directed life and see that, then stop making half-4ssed posts here doing nothing but spouting the same bs over and over.

No one denies terrorism is a threat? You've obviously not read this thread and have just jumped in to defend your circle-ites and troll away.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: NeoV
Vic, you couldn't be more wrong. This flu isn't the same flu that happened in 1918, period. Does it have similarities? Yes, it does. But it is VERY REAL and it is a threat. SARS is nothing compared to the potential devistation caused if this virus gains the ability to be passed from person to person. You guys watch Wag-the-Dog too much if you think this is some big ploy...the companies that make these vaccines are doing quite well without this.
I understand that the viruses are not the same but supposedly similar. My point was that people are being told that the threat is the same.

Who cares if they are doing quite well? Are you saying that they don't want to do better? And why shouldn't people think it's a ploy? How many ploys have we been through in the past? Every fsckin' year is the big one. OMG wolf!!!
A ploy? Vic, this is my field of expertise. There is a real threat. What is unknown is the scale of it. It is far more likely that there is a handful of oil companies dictating wars and setting market prices than this being a "ploy". Am I going to hide because of it? Well no, but then again NO will never be under water. I will be getting the vaccination.
There is ALWAYS a real threat. I wasn't discounting that. There is no safety this side of the grave. There is always a real threat in everything you do. Just walking is risking your neck. Let's not even get started on the very real threat involved in driving or riding in a car.
The ploy is the fear.

I am not sure who is using this "ploy". Some weeks ago virtually everyone in govt was taking a hit because of Katrina. The COE had let the powers that be know the danger, and it was ignored. As a result of underestimating the danger, NO was hit, and hit hard. Now the administration is acting in what I see as a responsible manner (a fact that many Bush supporters seem to miss), no doubt to mitigate what would be a true disaster.

There isn't going to be a huge increase in production of vaccine, because it's too late, and I don't care how much money anyone throws at it.

Maybe you mean something else, but for my part this is how I see it based on my experience.
 

xenolith

Golden Member
Aug 3, 2000
1,588
0
76
^ Stop fear mongering. All those infections have been from bird-to-human or even more rare bird-to-animal-to-human contact, except possibly one. Somewhere in Asia I believe, there could have been a human-to-human transmission, but it remains unconfirmed.

Scientists studying the virus say it's on a fifth mutation. They also report it would have to mutate five more times to possibly mutate into a human-to-human contagion. Then it undoubtedly becomes a serious problem.
 

arsbanned

Banned
Dec 12, 2003
4,853
0
0
Originally posted by: dphantom
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Many have said the Hurricanes down here was a way God used to cleanse the sin and decadence out.


You obviously have a fvcked-up definition of the word, "many."

You see things through some odd eyes.

Nah, Dave's just an idiot.

Motion for ban.

The people discounting this out of hand are ignorant of history. This isn't an IF, it's a WHEN.
 

xenolith

Golden Member
Aug 3, 2000
1,588
0
76
Originally posted by: themroc27
Originally posted by: Hafen
Originally posted by: alchemize
The government really needs to start Tamiflu production/stockpiling. It's the only thing that will work against a "superflu" if the vaccine is missed.


Actually that would be Roche who needs to produce more. Too bad Pharmas are da 3vil which the righteous have sued incessantly to punish them from distrubuting their evil wares. Fortunately they have been largely successful driving vaccine manufacture out of this country and out of the marketplace. Pray that they do not waiver in their quest to vanquish Merck and their Vioxx devilry, nor do they stay their hand in undeserving mercy against all their other pharma allies. Do not let yourself be decieved by their claims of "healthcare" and "medicines." These are the lies of the evildoers to test your resolve. Brother Dave and Brother BBDoc has been strong and steadfast in his rejection of these demon goods. He will be the first to refuse to have his precious bodily fluids spoiled by their corruption. Let this be an example to us all.

manufacturing of flu vaccines has been driven out of the USA because:

1) manufacture of flu vaccines is not profitable, and
2) manufacture of flu vaccines is (now) not heavily subsidized by the US government

In Europe, Australia, etc., governments believe that certain things are TOO IMPORTANT to be left to free enterprise or the so-called 'free market', and hence manufacture of these vaccination materials is heavily subsidized by the public purse. Conservatives and other assorted nutbags in the USA have made "free markets" a fetish, to the point where they (apparently) would rather have millions die from lack of vaccination than actually spend public money on public health care.

And why are they not profitable? Because Tamiflu, like most vaccines are too expensive to develop and manufacture in the US because of the public liability they carry. With meaningful Tort reform, vaccine shortages would most likely be a thing of the past. But as long as Mrs. Jane Doe can sue Burger King for making her obese, well that's infinitely more important.
 

TraumaRN

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2005
6,893
63
91
Originally posted by: xenolith
Originally posted by: themroc27
Originally posted by: Hafen
Originally posted by: alchemize
The government really needs to start Tamiflu production/stockpiling. It's the only thing that will work against a "superflu" if the vaccine is missed.


Actually that would be Roche who needs to produce more. Too bad Pharmas are da 3vil which the righteous have sued incessantly to punish them from distrubuting their evil wares. Fortunately they have been largely successful driving vaccine manufacture out of this country and out of the marketplace. Pray that they do not waiver in their quest to vanquish Merck and their Vioxx devilry, nor do they stay their hand in undeserving mercy against all their other pharma allies. Do not let yourself be decieved by their claims of "healthcare" and "medicines." These are the lies of the evildoers to test your resolve. Brother Dave and Brother BBDoc has been strong and steadfast in his rejection of these demon goods. He will be the first to refuse to have his precious bodily fluids spoiled by their corruption. Let this be an example to us all.

manufacturing of flu vaccines has been driven out of the USA because:

1) manufacture of flu vaccines is not profitable, and
2) manufacture of flu vaccines is (now) not heavily subsidized by the US government

In Europe, Australia, etc., governments believe that certain things are TOO IMPORTANT to be left to free enterprise or the so-called 'free market', and hence manufacture of these vaccination materials is heavily subsidized by the public purse. Conservatives and other assorted nutbags in the USA have made "free markets" a fetish, to the point where they (apparently) would rather have millions die from lack of vaccination than actually spend public money on public health care.

And why are they not profitable? Because Tamiflu, like most vaccines are too expensive to develop and manufacture in the US because of the public liability they carry. With meaningful Tort reform, vaccine shortages would most likely be a thing of the past. But as long as Mrs. Jane Doe can sue Burger King for making her obese, well that's infinitely more important.



Tamiflu is a antiviral not a vaccine FYI
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,986
1
0
Originally posted by: arsbanned
Motion for ban.

The people discounting this out of hand are ignorant of history. This isn't an IF, it's a WHEN.

Motion for ban? ROFLMAO!

Fear Mongering ought to be a bannable offense too...
 

Whaspe

Senior member
Jan 1, 2005
430
0
0
Originally posted by: xenolith
^ Stop fear mongering. All those infections have been from bird-to-human or even more rare bird-to-animal-to-human contact, except possibly one. Somewhere in Asia I believe, there could have been a human-to-human transmission, but it remains unconfirmed.

Scientists studying the virus say it's on a fifth mutation. They also report it would have to mutate five more times to possibly mutate into a human-to-human contagion. Then it undoubtedly becomes a serious problem.

Here's the kink in the armour: A mutation could occur in any area of the world, and at any time... However, do to the population dynamics of certain countries, particularly Asia, and the methods of animal farming employed it is easy to detect these mutations in the avian influenza there.
 

arsbanned

Banned
Dec 12, 2003
4,853
0
0
Originally posted by: xenolith
^ Stop fear mongering. All those infections have been from bird-to-human or even more rare bird-to-animal-to-human contact, except possibly one. Somewhere in Asia I believe, there could have been a human-to-human transmission, but it remains unconfirmed.

Scientists studying the virus say it's on a fifth mutation. They also report it would have to mutate five more times to possibly mutate into a human-to-human contagion. Then it undoubtedly becomes a serious problem.

"Serious" problem? Yeah, take your family and enough food to last a couple of years to a cabin in the middle of a huge field and anyone trying to approach gets shot dead serious.
Read up on some history. Poo-pooing the inevitable makes you seem scared, not the other way around.
 

ahurtt

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2001
4,283
0
0
I predict radial muslim suicide bird-flu-ers! Infecting themselves with bird flu and flying passenger jets full of people into highly populated airports all over the country! RUN!!!!
 

xenolith

Golden Member
Aug 3, 2000
1,588
0
76
Originally posted by: arsbanned
Originally posted by: xenolith
^ Stop fear mongering. All those infections have been from bird-to-human or even more rare bird-to-animal-to-human contact, except possibly one. Somewhere in Asia I believe, there could have been a human-to-human transmission, but it remains unconfirmed.

Scientists studying the virus say it's on a fifth mutation. They also report it would have to mutate five more times to possibly mutate into a human-to-human contagion. Then it undoubtedly becomes a serious problem.

"Serious" problem? Yeah, take your family and enough food to last a couple of years to a cabin in the middle of a huge field and anyone trying to approach gets shot dead serious.
Read up on some history. Poo-pooing the inevitable makes you seem scared, not the other way around.

How did I "poo-poo" the inevitable? All I did is state the facts of the situation as we know them so far. I interjected no bias or predication as to whether it would happen or not.

arsbanned, by your reaction, you look like a true wacko. Shouldn't you be out shopping for duck tap or something...

 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,986
1
0
Originally posted by: ahurtt
I predict radial muslim suicide bird-flu-ers! Infecting themselves with bird flu and flying passenger jets full of people into highly populated airports all over the country! RUN!!!!

OH MY GOD!!! THE SKY REALLY IS FALLING!!!

</sarcasm>
 

tommywishbone

Platinum Member
May 11, 2005
2,149
0
0
Originally posted by: ahurtt
I predict radial muslim suicide bird-flu-ers! Infecting themselves with bird flu and flying passenger jets full of people into highly populated airports all over the country! RUN!!!!

Not only that, but they will have infected birds in baby strollers, and they will ride the NYC subway after they get here. :roll:

 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: XZeroII
Just another stupid SARS. Everyone in the US is going to start to panic and get all worked up about some stupid threat that has a 1% chance of doing any actual damage, if it does anything at all.

And worst of all, fearmongers like Dave here just spread this stuff like crazy.
:thumbsup:


Fear sells, people. Fear manipulates. Fear replaces logic and destroys memories. Fear erases the past.

Does no one else find it odd that the year the 1918 virus is finally re-sequenced is the same year it re-emerges, 87 years later? Isn't that awfully convenient? The truth is there is no threat. Just an opportunity to enslave the people in fear while selling huge amounts of vaccines at high profit margins, primarily with taxpayer money. Count on it. In a few months we will forget about this particular fear, as we will have moved on to another.

seeing as vaccines are so profitable and all....
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
Originally posted by: xenolith

And why are they not profitable? Because Tamiflu, like most vaccines are too expensive to develop and manufacture in the US because of the public liability they carry. With meaningful Tort reform, vaccine shortages would most likely be a thing of the past. But as long as Mrs. Jane Doe can sue Burger King for making her obese, well that's infinitely more important.

they aren't profitable because the cost of production is greater than any price they would recieve in the market.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: arsbanned
Motion for ban.

The people discounting this out of hand are ignorant of history. This isn't an IF, it's a WHEN.

Motion for ban? ROFLMAO!

Fear Mongering ought to be a bannable offense too...

so whens your ban coming?

the terrorists are out to get you!
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,572
66
91
www.bing.com
I'm not worried, I mean by the time the bird Flu gets here, the army of angry sharks that want to rid earth of humans will have completed equipping themselves with air-breating apparatuses and be halfway across the continental USA. Bird flu will be a welcome death to the masses trying to escape the shark's painful death lasers.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,238
6,338
126
Originally posted by: Train
I'm not worried, I mean by the time the bird Flu gets here, the army of angry sharks that want to rid earth of humans will have completed equipping themselves with air-breating apparatuses and be halfway across the continental USA. Bird flu will be a welcome death to the masses trying to escape the shark's painful death lasers.

Link?
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
0
I think the primary reason we'll never again see a "Spanish Flu" scenario is that news spreads so rapidly, that people will rapidly change behavior. Namely, wearing masks, or skipping work for a few days, washing hands more, seeking medical care quicker, etc.

Vaccines are a garbage answer to the "Unknown killer flu". But that's where the money is! You get customers for life. Where Tamiflu is a one time treatment, and only if you get sick (yet as, if not more, effective than vaccines).