Palestinian School Children Shot At..... Guess by Who....

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: dna
Like I said: imagine these were Israeli bullets, and even the content would not have been so tame; we would have something along the lines of "Israeli soldiers fire indiscriminantely into a crowd of children", with most likely a few "dead".

Spare me your childish name calling, and be slightly less creduleous; for all we know the witness might have been associated with the gunmen, and the reporter was doing his part to water down the report. There's a reason why reporters in Gaza have protested not long ago about intimidations and killings of those who aren't in-line with the program.

This actually reminds me of Brigitte Gabriel's interview where she comments on how the PA treats the press, and the threats to her life.

You're living in a dream world -- news that come from Lebanon, Gaza, and the West Bank are not going to be objective: if Israel is at falut, then you can be sure that there will be a grand-spin, possibly involving the word "massacre"; however, if it is an internal matter, then the rest of the world doesn't really need to know the actual details.

Seriously, didn't you learn anything from the stage management that went down in Lebanon?
Even Kevin Sites mentioned it:

As I raise my camera, the shouting becomes louder. Finally, even the men acquiesce to the women's protests. No pictures, I'm told ? unless we get a letter from Hezbollah giving us permission.

Oh, I forgot, you don't think there was any spin in Lebanon, just pure, unbiased journalism......

You know, if you're planning on making any factual points based on THIS article, let me know.

As for childish name calling, you'll forgive me if I don't extend the same respect to you that I give people willing to engage in reasonable discussion. Like I said, you've made up your mind about the "truth", and everything is mashed around to fit into that neat little picture. Hell, you're proving bias in this article by talking about other situations. You even read stuff into other people that isn't there. Nowhere did I say no bias exists, that's another topic for another time, I'm just saying that there doesn't seem to be a bias here, except in your own mind...and that really has nothing to do with this particular article, does it?

 

[imported_dna]

You're absolutely right -- it was the teachers' strike that hurt that 12-year old.

I'll remember to bring a hardhat with me when I visit Gaza: you never know when a stray bullet fired into the air might succumb to gravity.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: dna
You're absolutely right -- it was the teachers' strike that hurt that 12-year old.

I'll remember to bring a hardhat with me when I visit Gaza: you never know when a stray bullet fired into the air might succumb to gravity.

So your proof of the bias of this particular stringer (and by your induction, all stringers) is a headline that he didn't come up with, a quote from a witness who you feel is misleading, ignoring the rest of the article, and your own estimation of some hypothetical story that nobody wrote.

That's quite the airtight case you've got there...

 

[Aisengard]

You are ignoring 1000 kids killed by the Israeli army and talking about 1 child attacked by Palestinians? how ignorant is this!? didn't you see any American murdering an American? extraordinary huh?

You can always rely on the terrorist apologizers to give us the "Just because the terrorists did it doesn't mean it's right for the other side to do it", when Israel might have done some indescriminate act, and then turn right around and give the "But ISRAEL did it!!!1" when their side does the same.

That's the point of this thread, and I think it's served its purpose quite well.

 

[imported_dna]

Mr. Ali Daragmeh chose to include the testimony regarding "stray fire" and "shooting in the air", which is obviously an attempt of removing some guilt from the gunmen. Naturally, the family played along, and further obfuscated the roll these "unknown men" played.

Also, I have a hard time believing that this guy didn't contribute to the bizzare title, but you can go on and educate me regarding the "proper procedures" that the AP and Reuters follow, as we've seen with Adnan Hajj, the Ambulance story, and, most recently, the Reuters news van hit by yet more magical-missiles....

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Cruise51

Originally posted by: straightalker
Sometimes a troller does entice me to strike but not this time. Hitler is dull bait after seeing it used so often before.

...next.

I'm not calling you a nazi if that's what you think. I'm simply pointing out that such a plan caused WW2 and would start WW3 if ever used again. Despite all the crap that goes on there, I still believe diplomacy is the only thing that will secure lasting peace.

D--I--P--L--O--M--A--C--Y!!! <---- for the middle east? Now thats a novel concept!

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: dna
ARTICLE

For those of you who still gobble-up news coming from "reliable" stringers in Lebanon and Gaza, here's a reality check.

A bunch of gunmen were "enforcing" a strike, and shot and wounded a 12-year old.
Read the article, and take a look at LGF pointing out the obvious attempt to whitewash the event.

Gunmen fire wound a child, and the AP publishes a story titled "Palestinian teachers' strike hurts boy", in which the gunmen are described as firing in the air to keep the children away.

Now just imagine if somehow one of the kids was hurt from an Israeli bullet......
Oh, wait! They already had something better than that -- Mohamed Al-Durrah.

P.S.
I just can't wait for the cynics out there to blame this on Israel as well, or to spin my post in such a way to make it seem I'm justifying actions taken by Israel -- you know, the argument that says that if you point out bias in reporting Muslim-on-Muslim violence, then you are automatically a biased bigot, and are trying to justify Israeli "massacres".

What about this for reality check? Palestinian teacher protested why? because PA don't have the money to pay them. Why PA don't have money you ask? Well, Israel withold their tax revenue, and the west withold their aid just because the people democratically elected Hamas into their government.

Oh but Palestinian Authority is suppose to keep order while they have no income to pay their public workers right? And they are suppose to keep people from turning into terrorist when they can't turn around the economy while Israel keep blocking their trade route and taking their tax revenues right?

By the way, nice topic with "Children Shot At" when the gunman was shooting in the air and the kids was hit by the stray bullet.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: dna
Mr. Ali Daragmeh chose to include the testimony regarding "stray fire" and "shooting in the air", which is obviously an attempt of removing some guilt from the gunmen. Naturally, the family played along, and further obfuscated the roll these "unknown men" played.

It's not a court case, it's a news story...when covering a news story, the reporter is supposed to ask people around there what they saw. I don't see it as his job to pass judgement as to how the quotes paint the gunmen, especially since he wasn't there. Now if there were conflicting eyewitnesses that he intentionally decided to leave out to skew the story, that would be a different thing...but I see very little evidence to suggest that's what happened.

Do me a favor, go to a news website, ANY news website, or pick up a paper, and look at the quotes in the article. Part of covering a story is getting reactions and the opinions of those involved, that doesn't mean that the writer agrees with or supports their viewpoint. I don't disagree that the witnesses were probably being misleading, and the family seemed biased as well, but those kinds of people need to be interviewed for a story like this...what should the writer have done if he was unbiased, in your view? Perhaps he should have ignored eyewitness reports that he disagreed with, even though he wasn't there, and left out the quotes from the family because the FAMILY seemed biased. Quotes from involved parties are part of the story, but most reasonable people realize that they are just opinions from individuals not being presented as absolute truth.

A random story I picked up off of CNN.com about Democrats pushing for Rumsfeld's resignation, and it included some rather biased (duh) quotes from Tony Snow and Rumsfeld himself, and no quotes from Dems at all. Does that mean CNN endorses the Bush administration's view of the situation? Of course not, it just means that when you're doing a story about Rumsfeld being potentially forced out of office, a responsible journalist needs to get reactions from the Bush administration...that's how journalism works.

Also, I have a hard time believing that this guy didn't contribute to the bizzare title, but you can go on and educate me regarding the "proper procedures" that the AP and Reuters follow, as we've seen with Adnan Hajj, the Ambulance story, and, most recently, the Reuters news van hit by yet more magical-missiles....

I don't care how hard a time you have believing it, that's how the print media works. And you can wave around all the bullshit you want, but it's pretty clear you don't really understand journalism at all, certainly not well enough to make a good argument in favor of your imagined bias.

But here's the deal, convincing people screaming "press bias" of anything is like discussing religion, it's not about facts and reason, it's about people believing what they want to believe. Which is great and all, but it makes reasonable exchange a little difficult. I'm perfectly willing to admit media bias if presented with a convincing case of it, I just think you and LGF need to keep looking.

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: rchiu
Well, Israel withold their tax revenue, and the west withold their aid just because the people democratically elected Hamas into their government.

A democratically elected terrorist is still a terrorist.

Oh but Palestinian Authority is suppose to keep order while they have no income to pay their public workers right? And they are suppose to keep people from turning into terrorist when they can't turn around the economy while Israel keep blocking their trade route and taking their tax revenues right?

I don't know, last I heared Arafat's wife was getting $20m a year; for a bunch of dirt-poor people there's certainly a lot of money changing hands. I'm not gonna bother posting links again -- just google for corruption and PA, and you'll find plenty.

By the way, nice topic with "Children Shot At" when the gunman was shooting in the air and the kids was hit by the stray bullet.

So, you support my hardhat policy in regard to gravity and stray bullets, eh?

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
It's not a court case, it's a news story...

I refer you to the last sentence in richiu's comment -- it seems we have a winner for the credulous of the year award.

See, whitewashing worked, and he took it all the way down.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: rchiu


What about this for reality check? Palestinian teacher protested why? because PA don't have the money to pay them. Why PA don't have money you ask? Well, Israel withold their tax revenue, and the west withold their aid just because the people democratically elected Hamas into their government.

Oh but Palestinian Authority is suppose to keep order while they have no income to pay their public workers right? And they are suppose to keep people from turning into terrorist when they can't turn around the economy while Israel keep blocking their trade route and taking their tax revenues right?

By the way, nice topic with "Children Shot At" when the gunman was shooting in the air and the kids was hit by the stray bullet.

rchiu are you a paid apologist for Hamas?

A 12 year old is shot during a school strike and you want to blame everyone but the people who did the shooting??

How about blaming the society that is now established in the West Bank that finds it acceptable to shot guns during teacher strikes. And people are still being fooled into believe that Islam is the religion of "peace"

Amazing how many people will blame Israel for every thing it does, but ignore and make excuses for all the harm being done by the Palestinians to themselves.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Rainsford
It's not a court case, it's a news story...

I refer you to the last sentence in richiu's comment -- it seems we have a winner for the credulous of the year award.

See, whitewashing worked, and he took it all the way down.

Haha, talking about whitewashing, so you are relying on blogs and Internet website for "unbiased truth" now, like that Red Cross Ambulance thing you love to reference to? I guess all those blog and website guy really went to Lebanon or Palestine and witness the event huh, or maybe they have somekind of superpower and just by looking at some pictures or by the name of the AP writer, they immediately know if the report is true or not.

AP and other global media and organization such like red cross may not be the perfect medium for facts and info, but it's laughable that you really think some blog and website by some guy out there is a is a better source of "fact". Instead of talking about someone whitewashing the event, why not talk about you people getting brainwashed into believing something you want to believe.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: rchiu


What about this for reality check? Palestinian teacher protested why? because PA don't have the money to pay them. Why PA don't have money you ask? Well, Israel withold their tax revenue, and the west withold their aid just because the people democratically elected Hamas into their government.

Oh but Palestinian Authority is suppose to keep order while they have no income to pay their public workers right? And they are suppose to keep people from turning into terrorist when they can't turn around the economy while Israel keep blocking their trade route and taking their tax revenues right?

By the way, nice topic with "Children Shot At" when the gunman was shooting in the air and the kids was hit by the stray bullet.

rchiu are you a paid apologist for Hamas?

A 12 year old is shot during a school strike and you want to blame everyone but the people who did the shooting??

How about blaming the society that is now established in the West Bank that finds it acceptable to shot guns during teacher strikes. And people are still being fooled into believe that Islam is the religion of "peace"

Amazing how many people will blame Israel for every thing it does, but ignore and make excuses for all the harm being done by the Palestinians to themselves.

Heh, I wished I was paid for whatever I post, but too bad I wasn't. I am merely pointing out the difference between shoting at the kids and shooting into the air, one with intent to kill and one does not. I am not saying that excused the gunman, I am saying you have to not only look at the gunman, but also look at the cause that pushed them onto the street.

And you are a fool if you think Islam is the only reason behind all the violance. There are plenty of Islam countries that is peace loving and doing well, Malaysia for example. And I will stop blaming Israel when and if they don't withold Palestine tax reveune, don't build road blocks all over Palestine, don't send tanks and shoot missiles into Palestinian land, and don't arrest Palestinian without due process. Bottom line, as long as Israel use these heavy handed approach in dealing with Palestinian and making Palestine unstable and poorer by the day, it will only create more Israel hating terrorists and breed more violance.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: rchiu
... And I will stop blaming Israel when and if they don't withold Palestine tax reveune, don't build road blocks all over Palestine, don't send tanks and shoot missiles into Palestinian land, and don't arrest Palestinian without due process. Bottom line, as long as Israel use these heavy handed approach in dealing with Palestinian and making Palestine unstable and poorer by the day, it will only create more Israel hating terrorists and breed more violance.

When you finish blaming Israel, please also attempt to blame those that encourage the Palestinian situation.

The heavy handed methods that you rail against seem to be the only way of keeping the Palestinians in check. When the "civilized" methods have been tried, the receivers have still acted in the same manner and taken advantage of the extra freedom that Israel provided to attack Israel. At least the heavy handed methods generate some protection for Israel.

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: rchiu
Heh, I wished I was paid for whatever I post, but too bad I wasn't. I am merely pointing out the difference between shoting at the kids and shooting into the air, one with intent to kill and one does not. I am not saying that excused the gunman, I am saying you have to not only look at the gunman, but also look at the cause that pushed them onto the street.

It?s amazing that this logic is coming from a Hamas apologist. If that is not the pinnacle of hypocrisy, I don't know what is.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: rchiu
Heh, I wished I was paid for whatever I post, but too bad I wasn't. I am merely pointing out the difference between shoting at the kids and shooting into the air, one with intent to kill and one does not. I am not saying that excused the gunman, I am saying you have to not only look at the gunman, but also look at the cause that pushed them onto the street.

It?s amazing that this logic is coming from a Hamas apologist. If that is not the pinnacle of hypocrisy, I don't know what is.

pinnacle of hypocrisy is supporting the killing of close to a thousand people, destorying a country and displacing almost a million just a month ago, and when one kid got shot by a stray bullet, you people suddenly start to care about those who got hurt.....

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: rchiu
Heh, I wished I was paid for whatever I post, but too bad I wasn't. I am merely pointing out the difference between shoting at the kids and shooting into the air, one with intent to kill and one does not. I am not saying that excused the gunman, I am saying you have to not only look at the gunman, but also look at the cause that pushed them onto the street.

It?s amazing that this logic is coming from a Hamas apologist. If that is not the pinnacle of hypocrisy, I don't know what is.

pinnacle of hypocrisy is supporting the killing of close to a thousand people, destorying a country and displacing almost a million just a month ago, and when one kid got shot by a stray bullet, you people suddenly start to care about those who got hurt.....

I guess that means you don't want to address the point of my post.

 

[Aisengard]

DBL, either rchiu is so dense he doesn't understand the implications of his post, or he's painted himself into a corner and the only response he has is to completely ignore the implications of his post.

Such is the way with hypocrites who don't give up.

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: Aisengard
DBL, either rchiu is so dense he doesn't understand the implications of his post, or he's painted himself into a corner and the only response he has is to completely ignore the implications of his post.

Such is the way with hypocrites who don't give up.

I know. I usually hate getting dragged into the same unending arguments but I just found that particular post extremely amusing.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: Aisengard
DBL, either rchiu is so dense he doesn't understand the implications of his post, or he's painted himself into a corner and the only response he has is to completely ignore the implications of his post.

Such is the way with hypocrites who don't give up.

I know. I usually hate getting dragged into the same unending arguments but I just found that particular post extremely amusing.

ha, you guys think I cared about being labeled as Hamas apologist, especially by you die hard Israel suppoters? Back then when I was debating against those neocons on invading Iraq, plenty of people called me and our type terrorist apologists, but who cares, idiots like labeling people when they can't win debates.

Now, go ahead and call me hyocrite when y'all have no problem supporting the last month's invasion but when one Arab boy got hit by a stray bullet and all of sudden you become this champion of Arab people. Oh and don't worry about me being dense, I am lmao here debating with u guys.

 

[imported_dna]

Seems like I missed richiu's BS party...
Oh well, others took care to comment on the nonsense he posted.

One thing, though: if you have any issue with the ambulance analysis, then let's hear; so far we've been getting only hot air from you.

Alas, I'm pretty sure the Mr. I'm-not-a-Hezbollah/Hamas-apologist won't answer, as he did not answer other questions I asked him in other threads; if he does, he'll avoid addressing the matter on the pretex of some asinine reason...

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: dna
Seems like I missed richiu's BS party...
Oh well, others took care to comment on the nonsense he posted.

One thing, though: if you have any issue with the ambulance analysis, then let's hear; so far we've been getting only hot air from you.

Alas, I'm pretty sure the Mr. I'm-not-a-Hezbollah/Hamas-apologist won't answer, as he did not answer other questions I asked him in other threads; if he does, he'll avoid addressing the matter on the pretex of some asinine reason...

Heh, you don't have to link your so called analysis, I have seen it and you know what armchair generals are right? These people are nothing more than armchair journalist thinking they know everything by looking at their computer screen and able to google something. Next time he provide something like oh, let's say some actual personal experience about the incident, I will take his word over reputable source like Red Cross with people actually on the ground in Lebanon.

remind me again what ur questions are again, sorry I don't spend every minutes tracking these post...today is an exception...hehe.

 

[imported_dna]

Thank you for fulfiling my prediction as to your response.

I'm still waiting for you to state what's the problem with the ambulance analysis, and that means the actual facts addressed, and not your irrelevant opinion.

The link was put for the benefit of others.

 

[Aisengard]

rchiu obviously hasn't seen Pallywood.

rchiu, how can you say there are no WMDs in Iraq during the Iraq war buildup? Surely you are no armchair general yourself, and would trust sources such as the United States and Britain?

OH THAT'S RIGHT. They were spouting bullshit, we on the internet took notice and had something to say about it. Now please stop with your hypocritical bullshit, your act is getting REALLY tired.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: dna
Thank you for fulfiling my prediction as to your response.

I'm still waiting for you to state what's the problem with the ambulance analysis, and that means the actual facts addressed, and not your irrelevant opinion.

The link was put for the benefit of others.

Unlike you people, I don't claim to be an expert to the incident just by looking at pictures and pretend that I know everything that happened just by scouring through the web. I identify a trust worthy source, for example Red Cross which was founded for over 100 years with volunteers from very diverse background, and trust what it said. If they said Israeli missiles hit them, I believe Israeli missiles hit them. They don't have a reason to lie and they have a big enough organization with diverse enough people to prevent some people with individual agenda from making false statement on behalf of Red Cross.

Here are the facts. The guy from Zombietime.com based everything on photographs. He based all analysis without actually seen the ambulance or anyone involved in the incident. He is no ballistic expert and have no authority on the type of missiles hitting the ambulance and what kind of explosion it can cause. He is some unknown person from the Internet, with unknown agenda and unknown qualification to investigation techniques, journalistic techniques.

Those are the facts and that's the problem to the analysis and the basis for me to choose to call the analaysis BS.