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Pakistan tipping off militants...again

blackangst1

blackangst1

Lifer
Well, this doesnt come off as much of a surprise. Pakistan is basically taking our money with an open hand yet flipping us off with the other. No, Mr President, an open hand isnt always the best solution. Unless it's for a bitch slap.

Pakistanis tip off militants again.

WASHINGTON – In another blow to Washington's relationship with Pakistan, U.S. officials say Pakistan failed another test to prove it could be trusted to go after American enemies on its soil by intentionally or inadvertently tipping off militants at two more bomb-building factories in its tribal areas, giving the suspected terrorists time to flee.
The two sites' locations in the tribal areas had been shared with the Pakistani government this past week, the officials said Saturday. The Americans monitored the area with satellite and unmanned drones to see what would happen.

In each case, within a day or so after sharing the information, they watched the militants depart, taking any weapons or bomb-making materials with them, just as militants had done the first two times. Only then, did they watch the Pakistani military visit each site, when the terror suspects and their wares were long gone, the officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss matters of intelligence.

The Americans suspect that either lower-level Pakistani officials are directly tipping the militants off to the imminent raids, or the tips are coming through the local tribal elders that Pakistan insists on informing of the raids. U.S. officials have pushed for Pakistan to keep the location of such targets secret prior to the operations, but the Pakistanis say their troops cannot enter the lawless regions without giving the locals notice.

The latest incidents bring to a total of four bomb-making sites that the U.S. has shared with Pakistan only to have the terrorist suspects flee before the Pakistani military arrive. Both sides are attempting to mend relations and rebuild trust after the U.S. raid on May 2 that killed Osama bin Laden in Abbottabad, a Pakistani army town only 35 miles from the capital Islamabad.

(article continued, comment mine)
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Two things to say.

1. Why do we automatically assume that the Pakistanis are informing the Taliban. Armies can't keep their movements secret and it ain't rocket science for the Taliban to guess what target army movements may target. Its somewhat a way of life for the Taliban, they build factories, invest some money in infrastructure, but know if the whistle blows, its time to shut it down and head for the hills. Its simply guerrilla war 101. We had our Paul Reveres and why do we not expect Pakistani Taliban don't have theirs. If nothing else in the civilian population. Especially given the fact that in the tribal areas of Pakistan, the general populaces hates Nato's guts and the Pakistani army are not held in much higher regard. And with cell phones and coded messages, no need to get on a horse and say the British are coming.

2. Where does this assumption come from that Pakistan must be a a slavish US ally. All Pakistan did was lease the USA and Nato a land based supply line into Afghanistan. And in return Nato was supposed to take no military action in Pakistan. And that might have been the end of it until US incompetence chased the Taliban into the tribal areas of Pakistan, and even if the Taliban caused little mischief in Pakistan, Nato made Pakistan into a scapegoat. A Taliban member in Pakistan can't threaten Afghanistan, it was Nato's job to patrol the border to keep them out making the Taliban in Pakistan into no problem
 
Seriously Lemon??

We give them the location of a bomb making plant and the next day they pack up and move. And this has happened four times now??

Seems like a little bit of a coincidence.
 
Lemon law said:
Two things to say.

1. Why do we automatically assume that the Pakistanis are informing the Taliban. Armies can't keep their movements secret and it ain't rocket science for the Taliban to guess what target army movements may target. Its somewhat a way of life for the Taliban, they build factories, invest some money in infrastructure, but know if the whistle blows, its time to shut it down and head for the hills. Its simply guerrilla war 101. We had our Paul Reveres and why do we not expect Pakistani Taliban don't have theirs. If nothing else in the civilian population. Especially given the fact that in the tribal areas of Pakistan, the general populaces hates Nato's guts and the Pakistani army are not held in much higher regard. And with cell phones and coded messages, no need to get on a horse and say the British are coming.

2. Where does this assumption come from that Pakistan must be a a slavish US ally. All Pakistan did was lease the USA and Nato a land based supply line into Afghanistan. And in return Nato was supposed to take no military action in Pakistan. And that might have been the end of it until US incompetence chased the Taliban into the tribal areas of Pakistan, and even if the Taliban caused little mischief in Pakistan, Nato made Pakistan into a scapegoat. A Taliban member in Pakistan can't threaten Afghanistan, it was Nato's job to patrol the border to keep them out making the Taliban in Pakistan into no problem
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LL , lets say you own a block of apartments. Now you found out that in one of those homes, there are some terrorists living and planning for the next mass attack, luckily for you it is not going to be a terrorist attack in your apt block but in the next town. Are you telling me you will not call the authorities. Please tell us what will you do?
 
ProfJohn said:
Seriously Lemon??

We give them the location of a bomb making plant and the next day they pack up and move. And this has happened four times now??

Seems like a little bit of a coincidence.
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He's a joke, and a terrorist supporter\sympathizer. At every turn he attempts to degrade US efforts and morale while defending the enemy.

Pakistan is also a joke. This must be hugely embarrassing for Pakistan's leaders, to see hard evidence that they literally cannot be trusted. We should just stop sharing operational intelligence with them. If, as a result, one of their SAMs fires at one of our aircraft, then it's an act of war. A two front war with the US pushing in from the West, and India being an opportunist and pushing in from the east would be ideal. Pakistan is a puss filled zit that needs to be squeezed.
 
From the article-

"Why are these faceless U.S. officials speaking through the media?" Abbas said. "Why don't they come out in the open so that we can respond to them with clarity?"
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Which is entirely reasonable. What's happening now is pure innuendo on the part of "American officials" having their own agenda.

Few people realize that the tribal regions of Pakistan & neighboring parts of Afghanistan are only marginally attached to any govt. It's like states' rights gone wild, except that it's never been any other way. They've always been wild places, like north sentinel island.

It's tough for western headsets to comprehend at all. It's also tough for us to understand how badly Pakistani pride was wounded by the Bin Laden raid, as well, not to mention ongoing drone attacks in the tribal areas.

We really should have cleared out long ago, but Bush Admin bungling & arrogance prevented that. What we need now is something we can sell to the American public, like the so called "Peace with honor" deal that Nixon came up with in Vietnam...
 
I think a visceral image of how little the Afghans appreciate us would do a lot to push public sentiment towards pulling out. Not unlike the Blackwater contractors that were mutilated and strung up in Iraq. Obviously I wouldn't wish anything like that to befall US soldiers or our Western allies though. Maybe if some Turkish soldiers got massacred and desecrated? They're worthless anyway.

At the same time, I feel like an increased US presence in Pakistan would be for the best. If they can't govern their western provinces, maybe we can. It's not fair for them to say they can't handle them, but then scold our air strikes and night time raids. All the while it's clear that if we give the Pakis the opportunity to do it, they'll just tip them off and let them go.

So, US war in Afghanistan = pointless, expensive. US war in Pakistan = possibly kickass?
 
Nebor said:
I think a visceral image of how little the Afghans appreciate us would do a lot to push public sentiment towards pulling out. Not unlike the Blackwater contractors that were mutilated and strung up in Iraq. Obviously I wouldn't wish anything like that to befall US soldiers or our Western allies though. Maybe if some Turkish soldiers got massacred and desecrated? They're worthless anyway.

At the same time, I feel like an increased US presence in Pakistan would be for the best. If they can't govern their western provinces, maybe we can. It's not fair for them to say they can't handle them, but then scold our air strikes and night time raids. All the while it's clear that if we give the Pakis the opportunity to do it, they'll just tip them off and let them go.

So, US war in Afghanistan = pointless, expensive. US war in Pakistan = possibly kickass?
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You sound like a dumb ass gambler who'll double down when he's on a losing streak...
 
It's not that difficult to understand this.

A.)Muslims don't like us.

B.)Pakistan is a country with a lot of Muslims.

C.)Based on statements A and B that means Pakistan does not like us.

So we can either bomb them to hell and get into a long drawn out military conflict or we can just leave that area of the world and fuck them. Cut all money going into Pakistan and any other country in that area and pull out from Iraq/Afghanistan. We are better off hiring a PR agency in Pakistan then bombing them because the more we bomb them the more hatred they will have for us and that's not something we want now is it.
 
badb0y said:
It's not that difficult to understand this.

A.)Muslims don't like us.

B.)Pakistan is a country with a lot of Muslims.

C.)Based on statements A and B that means Pakistan does not like us.

So we can either bomb them to hell and get into a long drawn out military conflict or we can just leave that area of the world and fuck them. Cut all money going into Pakistan and any other country in that area and pull out from Iraq/Afghanistan. We are better off hiring a PR agency in Pakistan then bombing them because the more we bomb them the more hatred they will have for us and that's not something we want now is it.
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That's extremely concise. I'd be ok with bombing them to hell and taking some of their land, or just totally cutting them off and ignoring them. But what we're doing now, giving them fuck tons of money while they plot to kill us on the ground every day, is just ridiculous.
 
cirrrocco said:
LL , lets say you own a block of apartments. Now you found out that in one of those homes, there are some terrorists living and planning for the next mass attack, luckily for you it is not going to be a terrorist attack in your apt block but in the next town. Are you telling me you will not call the authorities. Please tell us what will you do?
Click to expand...
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OK I will play your game. So I call the police, and tell them what I found, the police then deploy the swat team. And just as the cops leave the station, one of their spies watching the police station calls to my apartment dwellers and says, looks like the cop may be onto you, its maybe a good time to flee. Maybe its a false alarm the cops are going else where, but if you are an evil terrorists are you going to bet your life that its not you they are after. After all it was our CIA who taught the Afghans how to cache their weapons.

Of course the cops might have a quick response time in a small city, but even Nato or Pakistani army units in a large country tend to be slower than molasses. Especially when it takes a day or more by truck, as Taliban spies watch the army convoy's every step of the way.
 
As Nebor says, "On the global stage, the US is the house."

Didn't exactly do the USA any good when we were the house in Vietnam, we still got our ass kicked even if Nixon called it peace with honor.

All that US blood and treasure wasted in Vietnam, Nebor, can you tell us how it was worth it? Sadly all of efforts in Afghanistan will likely end up accomplishing even less.
 
Lemon law said:
As Nebor says, "On the global stage, the US is the house."

Didn't exactly do the USA any good when we were the house in Vietnam, we still got our ass kicked even if Nixon called it peace with honor.

All that US blood and treasure wasted in Vietnam, Nebor, can you tell us how it was worth it? Sadly all of efforts in Afghanistan will likely end up accomplishing even less.
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If Vietnam would have been prosecuted more vigorously it could have been won. Frankly the United States shouldn't exit a conflict in anything less than total victory, even if that means the complete destruction of whatever nation we're in conflict with, and the death of all it's citizens. Osama Bin Laden often pointed the United States' failures in Vietnam, and it provided motivation for him and his kind.

If every time a roadside IED went off, we blanketed a village with Sarin gas, and everytime a mortar was fired at a coalition base, we MOABed Kandahar City, Jalalabad, Khost, or a similar "large" city they'd get the idea pretty quick. Or they'd all get dead. Either way works.
 
Nebor said:
If Vietnam would have been prosecuted more vigorously it could have been won. Frankly the United States shouldn't exit a conflict in anything less than total victory, even if that means the complete destruction of whatever nation we're in conflict with, and the death of all it's citizens. Osama Bin Laden often pointed the United States' failures in Vietnam, and it provided motivation for him and his kind.

If every time a roadside IED went off, we blanketed a village with Sarin gas, and everytime a mortar was fired at a coalition base, we MOABed Kandahar City, Jalalabad, Khost, or a similar "large" city they'd get the idea pretty quick. Or they'd all get dead. Either way works.
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What a charming idea, Nebor you sound just like Hitler. Except you are even more morally bankrupt in advocating war crimes.
 
Lemon law said:
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What a charming idea, Nebor you sound just like Hitler. Except you are even more morally bankrupt in advocating war crimes.
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We need real counter-terrorism. They do something horrible, we do something exponentially more horrifying to them.
 
Jhhnn said:
It's also tough for us to understand how badly Pakistani pride was wounded by the Bin Laden raid, as well, not to mention ongoing drone attacks in the tribal areas.
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Fuck Pakistan. They haven't done anything to deserve to have any pride. My take would be to cut off any foreign aid and let them rot.
 
Obama is too much of a pussy to call them on it publicly. in my opinion all the billions we send to that shit hole, goat fucking country should be stopped immediately!
 
There are a lot of things going on that the US media doesn't tell you.

1) Pakistan has rejected the idea that they tipped of the militants. They blame the Americans for providing false intelligence.

2) Pakistan has detained a few CIA informants in retalliation for the May 2 raid.

Americans must be really dumb to still trust their intelligence after their lies that lead to the Iraq war.
 
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