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Pakistan possibly showed China top-secret US helicopter

ModerateRepZero

Golden Member
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/world/asia/15copter.html?hp

August 14, 2011
U.S. Aides Believe China Examined Stealth Copter
By MARK MAZZETTI

WASHINGTON — In the days after the raid that killed Osama bin Laden, Pakistan’s intelligence service probably allowed Chinese military engineers to examine the wreckage of a stealth American helicopter that crashed during the operation, according to American officials and others familiar with the classified intelligence assessments.

Such cooperation with China would be provocative, providing further evidence of the depths of Pakistan’s anger over the Bin Laden raid, which was carried out without Pakistan’s approval. The operation, conducted in early May, also set off an escalating tit-for-tat scuffle between American and Pakistani spies.

American spy agencies have concluded that it is likely that Chinese engineers — at the invitation of Pakistani intelligence operatives — took detailed photographs of the severed tail of the Black Hawk helicopter equipped with classified technology designed to elude radar, the officials said. The members of the Navy Seals team who conducted the raid had tried to destroy the helicopter after it crashed at Bin Laden’s compound in Abbottabad, but the tail section of the aircraft remained largely intact.

American officials cautioned that they did not yet have definitive proof that the Chinese were allowed to visit to Abbottabad. They said that Pakistani officials had denied that they showed the advanced helicopter technology to other foreign governments. One military official said Sunday that Pakistani officials had been directly confronted about the American intelligence.

One person with knowledge of the intelligence assessments said that the American case was based mostly on intercepted conversations in which Pakistani officials discussed inviting the Chinese to the crash site. He characterized intelligence officials as being “certain” that Chinese engineers were able to photograph the helicopter and even walk away with samples of the wreckage. The tail has been shipped back to the United States, according to American officials.

Pakistan has a close military relationship with China, and large numbers of Chinese engineers work at military bases inside Pakistan. Pakistani officials have even suggested that the Chinese Navy might eventually have its own base along Pakistan’s coastline.

Several Pakistani officials reached on Sunday declined to comment. The American assessments were disclosed Sunday by The Financial Times. The newspaper cited Pakistani officials who denied the accusations.

When pictures of the helicopter’s tail emerged in the days after the Bin Laden raid, defense experts said it bore little resemblance to a standard Black Hawk helicopter. They said that the helicopter in Abbottabad appeared to have a special coating designed to elude air defenses, and that the Black Hawk’s sharp edges seemed to have been replaced with curved parts that could further confuse ground radar systems.

Pakistan’s anger about the Bin Laden operation was so intense that officials in Islamabad, the capital, hinted in news reports in May that they might allow the Chinese to see the helicopter wreckage, but it was unclear at the time whether Pakistan’s government might follow through on the veiled threats. Pakistani officials also made a high-profile trip to Beijing shortly after the Abbottabad raid, part of a not-so-subtle campaign to show the strength of Pakistan’s alliance with China amid faltering relations between Washington and Islamabad.

Meanwhile, the intelligence services of the two countries have quietly carried out their own spy games. Pakistan’s military spy service, the Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence, or ISI, arrested a group of Pakistani citizens in May who the agency suspected were working with the Central Intelligence Agency in the months leading up to the Bin Laden raid.

One of those arrested was a Pakistani doctor who had helped the C.I.A. set up a phony vaccination program in Abbottabad. The doctor had set up the vaccination scheme in the hope of gaining access to the Bin Laden compound and getting hard evidence that Bin Laden was hiding there. The doctor remains in Pakistani custody, according to American officials.

The C.I.A., for its part, has continued to carry out missile strikes inside Pakistan using armed drone aircraft, a campaign that has been tacitly blessed by Pakistani leaders but that has further aggravated relations between the C.I.A. and the ISI.

The relationship between the spy services began fraying in the months before the Bin Laden raid, after a C.I.A. contractor was charged with murder and jailed in Lahore. The contractor, Raymond A. Davis, killed two men at a crowded traffic stop in Lahore in January, in what American officials described as an act of self-defense after the two men tried to rob Mr. Davis.

Mr. Davis was eventually released from jail, but American relations with Pakistan declined steadily in subsequent weeks and sank even lower after the Bin Laden raid.

However, amid the recriminations and threats by members of Congress to cut all military aid to Pakistan, some senior members of the Obama administration have tried to dial back tensions before they do permanent damage to the shaky alliance.

Despite the headaches of an alliance marked by mutual distrust and competing agendas, the officials argue, the prospect of Washington permanently severing ties with a nuclear-armed country as volatile as Pakistan would be far more dangerous.

Reposted after previous thread by another user locked (no commentary). If true, it's just more proof that despite sending billions in aid to Pakistan, they're still complicated and unreliable "partners" in dealing with terrorists.

If they didn't have nukes I'm sure we'd cut off aid and leave them alone, but at least we're rethinking the financial assistance we've been giving them.
 
Pakistan is a pseudo-nation that cannot control its own borders, cannot find the world's most wanted fugitive despite him living among them, leaks "allied" intelligence so that the bad guys can get away in earlier vents, and then when that same ally decided to keep them in the dark about a mission they probably would have screwed up anyway they then go and show classified wreckage to China.

Great buddies!
 
Of course they showed China, China and Pakistan share a common enemy in India so whatever China says Pakistan will do. Kinda sad but that's how the world works.
 
Is there any doubt that any and all aid to this terrorist harboring country needs to stop?
The only reason we provide them with aid is because we are using their air base and we use them to get supplies into Afghanistan and whatnot. As soon as they become completely useless to us we can cut them off.
 

The aid has already been stopped. For quite a few months.

This is a non-news. We have had our way with that country for decades. If they didnt learn a lesson and looked out for their own self-interest, then it would be a news item.
 
I suspected this from the get-go, would also not be surprised if these samples and data made their way into Russian and/or Iranian hands.

Yet another reason we need to tell this hole of country to get bent, with allies like this...





The aid has already been stopped. For quite a few months.

This is a non-news. We have had our way with that country for decades. If they didnt learn a lesson and looked out for their own self-interest, then it would be a news item.


Link? I was under the impression our financial support was reduced, and that in protest the Paks turned their noses up at another portion, but I didn't know it had been halted altogether.

It should be though!

Time to beef up support for India; training, tech, money, the whole nine. We don't need any more proof that Pakistan is an enemy.
 
Time to beef up support for India; training, tech, money, the whole nine. We don't need any more proof that Pakistan is an enemy.

Ah no, that's a terrible idea. First, If we start arming India, China will go into panic mode since they have problems with India. Second, unlike Iraq and Afghanistan, Pakistan actually has some sort of a military and nuclear weapons so it's not going to be a push over like former two countries. Third, it's none of our business let them deal with their own shit, us getting involved always makes things more complicated and it's better for us to just chill. Also we have a lot of our own problems to deal with so fuck that part of Asia cause it's a clusterfuck I would rather not get our country involved into at this time.
 
Ah no, that's a terrible idea. First, If we start arming India, China will go into panic mode since they have problems with India. Second, unlike Iraq and Afghanistan, Pakistan actually has some sort of a military and nuclear weapons so it's not going to be a push over like former two countries. Third, it's none of our business let them deal with their own shit, us getting involved always makes things more complicated and it's better for us to just chill. Also we have a lot of our own problems to deal with so fuck that part of Asia cause it's a clusterfuck I would rather not get our country involved into at this time.


What are you talking about? Does the term 'counter balance' mean anything to you? China? We're not stepping on egg shells wrt to China, please refer to Taiwan and it's relationship with our military, specifically it's naval and air assets. India is already armed, and we've been engaged with them for sometime, much to the chagrin of the Paks.

When allies piss on you, you don't hang your head and say oh well. You let them know that ain't going to fly, and makes plans accordingly. No idea why you're acting like I just advocated invading someone...
 
Pakistan is a pseudo-nation that cannot control its own borders, cannot find the world's most wanted fugitive despite him living among them, leaks "allied" intelligence so that the bad guys can get away in earlier vents, and then when that same ally decided to keep them in the dark about a mission they probably would have screwed up anyway they then go and show classified wreckage to China.

Great buddies!

you really think pakistan couldn't "find" OBL?
 
Is this really a surprise? I wish we would stop calling them our ally. We lease roads from them, that does not make them allies. The majority of their people hate The West and the only reason their government cooperates with us, and the Chinese, is bribes (aid).

Just be glad that they did not get the avionics (thermite like charges took care of it), THAT would have been a DISASTER.

But, we can be content that many Pakistanis do not like the Chinese government either:
http://old.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110801/wl_afp/chinaunrestxinjianggovernment
A deadly weekend attack in China's restive Xinjiang region was masterminded by "terrorists" trained in Pakistan, the local government said Monday.
 
Is there any doubt that any and all aid to this terrorist harboring country needs to stop?
We need to cut funding to China's military first.

Stop buying iPhones, HDTVs and computers...got it?
 
Does any one of this forum have any brains? After the crash local kids took half of the fabric on the helicopter as collector items, pictures of the downed chopper were plastered all over the internet for everyone to see, yet this forum somehow believes only China benefited and the Paks betrayed the USA.

A few pictures and even a few parts are not very valuable clues for anyone wanting to build their own stealth copters.

And as soon as any such weapon is used and then crashes on any battlefield, it instantly goes into the worldwide common domain. But you still need more than a few photo's and parts, to build a working whole stealth helicopter. And lots of RD to find out what shapes and internal parts now blown up it takes to make such aircraft actually become acceptably stealth. Every military and military parts suppliers are on the exact same par as China.

Too many people on this forum think with their emotions and are far far too gullible. The exact perfect grist for the propaganda mills of bullshit artists. You are the exact same people who let GWB sell you the phony war in Iraq. And in the 30 of so reason cited, not one was correct in the end.
 
Does any one of this forum have any brains? After the crash local kids took half of the fabric on the helicopter as collector items, pictures of the downed chopper were plastered all over the internet for everyone to see, yet this forum somehow believes only China benefited and the Paks betrayed the USA.

A few pictures and even a few parts are not very valuable clues for anyone wanting to build their own stealth copters.

And as soon as any such weapon is used and then crashes on any battlefield, it instantly goes into the worldwide common domain. But you still need more than a few photo's and parts, to build a working whole stealth helicopter. And lots of RD to find out what shapes and internal parts now blown up it takes to make such aircraft actually become acceptably stealth. Every military and military parts suppliers are on the exact same par as China.

Too many people on this forum think with their emotions and are far far too gullible. The exact perfect grist for the propaganda mills of bullshit artists. You are the exact same people who let GWB sell you the phony war in Iraq. And in the 30 of so reason cited, not one was correct in the end.
It crashed inside the compound, not outside it.

Pakistan military had full control over the compound after the US lifted off.

Making excuses for the Pakistani government. Why? They did exactly what they said they would.

They had egg on their face and it was a way for them to get back at the US.
 
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Its never occurs to pea brains on this forum that the USA and Nato have no right to operate inside inside Pakistan. PERIOD and end of story.

Why should the Paks pissed off at the betrayal secure the compound when they are super pissed off.

All the Paks did is lease Nato a land route into Pakistan, and found US aid was not a bargain at any price. As US and Nato incompetence has destabilized Pakistan in the process.

And when the USA and Nato sails home mission unaccomplished in 2014, the job of stabilizing the region will fall to Pakistan.
 
What's so wrong with Pakistan showing China the chopper? I would be disappointed if they didn't. Not to mention the military industrial complex wouldn't have it any other way. We can't have a perpetual arms race if nobody knocks off our best technology now can we? We've got to justify the next new high dollar killing machines.
 
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