Pakistan fails the trust test - AGAIN!

[EagleKeeper]

Pakistanis tip off militants again


This time we put up drones to see what happens when we tell the Pakistani's that they have a smell in their back yard.

Until Pakistan decides to clean house of the militant supporters; the US should not share any info with them until after the fact. Use the drones and rapid responses to start cleaning out the actual nest without Pakistani involvement - let them look after the fact at the evidence. similar to what we did with OBL.

Providing info up front as a joint op has been failing every time.

Pakistan is going to have to decide which side of the fence they are going to be on. With such evidence; the US is not going to be able to trust their system anymore; Pakistan making excuses no longer can fly when the evidence is in their face.

 

[a777pilot]

I agree. This is one reason I have been saying for years now that the US ought be out of Afghanistan and have our military forces and efforts focused in Iraq and Pakistan. One ought to keep one's eye on the center of gravity of who are enemy is: Iran.

 

[PokerGuy]

I am shocked! Shocked I tell you!

Lets face it, that place is a dump and while some over there are indeed allies, there are way too many enemies mixed in, we should treat them as what they are, an enemy failed state.

 

[a777pilot]

I am shocked! Shocked I tell you!

Lets face it, that place is a dump and while some over there are indeed allies, there are way too many enemies mixed in, we should treat them as what they are, an enemy failed state.

Good advise.

Always keep in mind that the Taliban was the creation of the Pakistan ISI.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Maybe Obama could go talk to them about this?

 

[Schadenfroh]

Meanwhile, Pakistan arrests CIA informants:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/15/world/asia/15policy.html?pagewanted=all

Pakistan’s detention of five C.I.A. informants, including a Pakistani Army major who officials said copied the license plates of cars visiting Bin Laden’s compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, in the weeks before the raid

I do not blame them for their counter-intelligence efforts to remove CIA leaks, but it would be nice if they were as focused on removing Taliban / Al-Qaeda informants from their ranks.

 

[EagleKeeper]

The Americans suspect that either lower-level Pakistani officials are directly tipping the militants off to the imminent raids, or the tips are coming through the local tribal elders that Pakistan insists on informing of the raids. U.S. officials have pushed for Pakistan to keep the location of such targets secret prior to the operations, but the Pakistanis say their troops cannot enter the lawless regions without giving the locals notice.

Makes you wonder who is running that country?

Or is it really two countries; the urban city areas controlled by the government and the rest of the country that is Pakistan in name and paper only?

If it is the second option; why can the US operate in those areas without the cooperation from the Pakistanis - work directly with the people that control the areas.

That way, we know who to hold accountable and provide assistance to for their efforts.

 

[Doboji]

We have to continue our dance with Pakistan, because we can ill afford a straight up war with them. However we can and should continue to conduct raids and drone strikes when we want, where we want and deny it later.

 

[Jaskalas]

We have to continue our dance with Pakistan, because we can ill afford a straight up war with them. However we can and should continue to conduct raids and drone strikes when we want, where we want and deny it later.

Kill them, or leave them alone. You don't f' around and sit on the sidelines sniping a few people here and there when the entire country is against you. Either Pakistan is a threat that must be taken down by military force, or it's NOT a threat and should be left the f' alone.

Choose one of those options, but DO NOT continue to bomb a few people here and there thinking you're making one bit of a difference. You're wasting our coin, our men, and you are continuing to incite violence.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Either Pakistan is a threat that must be taken down by military force, or it's NOT a threat and should be left the f' alone.

The problem is that you do not know who is your enemy there. Their army / government seems to be a mixture of American, Taliban, Al-Qaeda and Chinese sock puppets and informants. Some are likely working for all of the above. Any of them actually serve Pakistan these days?

 

[EagleKeeper]

Kill them, or leave them alone. You don't f' around and sit on the sidelines sniping a few people here and there when the entire country is against you. Either Pakistan is a threat that must be taken down by military force, or it's NOT a threat and should be left the f' alone.

Choose one of those options, but DO NOT continue to bomb a few people here and there thinking you're making one bit of a difference. You're wasting our coin, our men, and you are continuing to incite violence.

We lose very few men in Pakistan.

However, at present, it is effective to appease Pakistan because of the supply runs.

Yet it is continually demonstrated that Pakistan will/can do nothing when presented with evidence that those responsible to creating terror in Pakistan and Afghanistan.:\

So we have to grease a few hands and continue with the suppression of militants own our own.:thumbsup:

 

[Jaskalas]

We lose very few men in Pakistan.

However, at present, it is effective to appease Pakistan because of the supply runs.

Yet it is continually demonstrated that Pakistan will/can do nothing when presented with evidence that those responsible to creating terror in Pakistan and Afghanistan.:\

So we have to grease a few hands and continue with the suppression of militants own our own.:thumbsup:

I'm saying that 'suppression' isn't doing a damn thing, but costing us and inciting violence. You don't go into a country, kill a few people, and leave the rest alone. The survivors are going to come for blood and you're giving them every reason to do so.

You are not getting rid of our enemies over there, you're just killing a small fraction. They're not going anywhere and they obviously have a great deal of support from their own government.

The restrictions placed on our military mean that there is no victory. Just continued violence. Violence against them, and violence against us. It has NO END. So we must end it ourselves.

 

[DaveSimmons]

We need to declare victory and get out of Afghanistan ASAP, so we don't need the supply routes through Pakistan any more. That takes away their leverage, and our main reason for the aid money bribes.

Let the tribal leaders decide whether they want to be allied with the Taliban or the military, it won't be our problem.

 

[OCGuy]

We need to declare victory and get out of Afghanistan ASAP, so we don't need the supply routes through Pakistan any more. That takes away their leverage, and our main reason for the aid money bribes.

Let the tribal leaders decide whether they want to be allied with the Taliban or the military, it won't be our problem.

This. Time to GTFO.

 

[her209]

The problem is that you do not know who is your enemy there. Their army / government seems to be a mixture of American, Taliban, Al-Qaeda and Chinese sock puppets and informants. Some are likely working for all of the above. Any of them actually serve Pakistan these days?

Its like East/West Germany over there.

 

[Kadarin]

Why we are giving those useless fucks aid is beyond me.

 

[xj0hnx]

This. Long passed time to GTFO.

ftfy

 

[finglobes]

Pakistan is going to have to decide which side of the fence they are going to be on. With such evidence; the US is not going to be able to trust their system anymore; Pakistan making excuses no longer can fly when the evidence is in their face.

For what its worth the US has treated Pak like crap. Pervez Musharraf was thrown down the well by US and a weak gov was put in place instead. Then the Taliban ended up just a few miles outside Islamabad.

Pakistan has no constitutional authority over troubles territories. Its been well known for years beloved patriot intelligence was sympathetic to hostile elements inside those territories - as are other citizens of Pakistan. Musharraf had to walk a fine line between helping US and inflaming situation at home. For its part the US kept throwing banana peels under Musharraf's feet. Western Media and US pols then kept pushing Musharraf out squealing for "free elections" like kids upset that slices of cake at a birthday party weren't even. Thus an inept gov with even less control was brought to power. US really needs to look in the mirror while moaning about Pakistan

 

[OCGuy]

For what its worth the US has treated Pak like crap. Pervez Musharraf was thrown down the well by US and a weak gov was put in place instead. Then the Taliban ended up just a few miles outside Islamabad.

Pakistan has no constitutional authority over troubles territories. Its been well known for years beloved patriot intelligence was sympathetic to hostile elements inside those territories - as are other citizens of Pakistan. Musharraf had to walk a fine line between helping US and inflaming situation at home. For its part the US kept throwing banana peels under Musharraf's feet. Western Media and US pols then kept pushing Musharraf out squealing for "free elections" like kids upset that slices of cake at a birthday party weren't even. Thus an inept gov with even less control was brought to power. US really needs to look in the mirror while moaning about Pakistan

Yes, it is always the Big Bad Boogyman the USA's fault!


I thought that kind of thinking was kept in undergrad college courses and liberal blogs?

 

[EagleKeeper]

For what its worth the US has treated Pak like crap. Pervez Musharraf was thrown down the well by US and a weak gov was put in place instead. Then the Taliban ended up just a few miles outside Islamabad.

Pakistan has no constitutional authority over troubles territories. Its been well known for years beloved patriot intelligence was sympathetic to hostile elements inside those territories - as are other citizens of Pakistan. Musharraf had to walk a fine line between helping US and inflaming situation at home. For its part the US kept throwing banana peels under Musharraf's feet. Western Media and US pols then kept pushing Musharraf out squealing for "free elections" like kids upset that slices of cake at a birthday party weren't even. Thus an inept gov with even less control was brought to power. US really needs to look in the mirror while moaning about Pakistan

If Pakistan has no authority over the territories, then why are they screaming so loud about sovereignty when we re were using drones against targets.

Or is it only when it benefits them politically to throw a fit while holding out their palms to be greased?

All their government has to do is refuse the aid and the "interference" that it brings. But they are unable to bring themselves to do so; they are so much dependent on the handouts coming in to keep them in power.

Yes, it is always the Big Bad Boogyman the USA's fault!

I thought that kind of thinking was kept in undergrad college courses and liberal blogs?

Schools is out for the summer. They need to regurgitate what they were brainwashed with over the past semester or two.

 

[Fern]

-snip-
....the US should not share any info with them until after the fact. Use the drones and rapid responses to start cleaning out the actual nest without Pakistani involvement...

Yes, it has become abundantly clear that, for whatever reason, we cannot trust the Pakistanis to keep the info confidential.

Now that we've seen this result numerous times, I feel like it may be time to aim my annoyance at our politicians and military leaders. How many times must I read of this and watch our side say "Doh, we got hosed again by the Pakistanis". We all know the old cliche about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Fern

 

[xj0hnx]

If Pakistan has no authority over the territories, then why are they screaming so loud about sovereignty when we re were using drones against targets.

Or is it only when it benefits them politically to throw a fit while holding out their palms to be greased?

All their government has to do is refuse the aid and the "interference" that it brings. But they are unable to bring themselves to do so; they are so much dependent on the handouts coming in to keep them in power.

LOL@Pakistan turning down handouts. The only solution is nuke from orbit.

 

[Schadenfroh]

If Pakistan has no authority over the territories, then why are they screaming so loud about sovereignty when we re were using drones against targets.

Take a look at this documentary on Netflix Instant View:
http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/National_Geographic_Talibanistan/70144625?trkid=2361637

They follow some Pakistani soldiers into those regions. The local population is so hostile to Pakistan's federal government that the soldiers have to cover their army uniforms.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

That sorry is from over a month ago and was already posted and discussed at great length. Thought this was a new incident.

 

[finglobes]

If Pakistan has no authority over the territories, then why are they screaming so loud about sovereignty when we re were using drones against targets.

One reason for Pakistan's "screaming" was to look independent of what US was doing. Musharraf and others would go along with a strike - after the strike they acted indignant. A lot of "protests" were meant for internal consumption and intended to diminish any backlash. See Pak was screwed either way. If Musharraf did what US wanted he had instability at home. If he bucked the US he was in trouble internationally. At least Musharraf was able to dance the razors edge until US chopped him up with it.