P4 2.66 GHz slow - need advice

[Skyzoomer]

A couple has a Dell Dimension 4600, P4, 2.66 GHz, 512 MB ram, 80 GB HDD. Their HDD is only half full. They mostly surf the web, do word processing and spreadsheet stuff.

They said their PC is rather slow and are wondering if they should buy a new PC. I suggested installing 2 GB of Crucial ram which will cost $79.95 on amazon. He's wondering if they should apply the ram money to a new PC rather than invest more money in their 5 year old PC.

What do you think?

 

[Arcanedeath]

Your better off with a New PC not worth investing in a PC that old and outdated anymore

 

[mmntech]

If it's a Windows XP system, they'll only need to upgrade it to 1gb. That's all it needs for standard office and web applications. For a system like that, just use budget RAM. Here's a 1gb DDR400 dual channel kit for $31.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820231030

If they want a new Dell, the base model Inspiron with a Pentium Dual Core E2200 and 2gb DDR2 runs $489. In my opinion though, they don't need a new system. Not for basic stuff unless they want something with lower power consumption. The P4 2.66ghz is still probably faster than the Atom, and that's good enough for most people.

 

[Blain]

Before I spent one dime on that old hardware, I'd tweak it for all it's worth.
FREE > CCleaner - clean the crap out and scrub the registry
FREE > MSCONFIG > Startup - disable all but necessary programs
FREE > Control Panel > System > Advanced > Performance > "Adjust for best performance"

One thing that will bump your performance, is moving up to 1GB from 512MB of memory.
It's cheaper than 2GBs. 2GBs won't get you much performance (in the apps you listed), than just 1GB.

 

[Skyzoomer]

Yes they do have WinXP Home installed. Would 1GB be enough if they have several windows open symultaneoulsy? Like Outlook Express, Internet Explorer, MS Word, and maybe MS Excel or a photo viewing/editing program?

All low demand software but all open symultaneously.

Thanks all for your feedback,
Sky

 

[dguy6789]

2GB is > 1GB even for XP because people who don't know any better will cram their PC with all kinds of programs. A PC with 2GB of ram will always be harder to bog down than a PC with 1GB of ram. These people probably are not enthusiasts.

That said, I'd tell them to just buy a new pc. You could get a machine with a dual core processor, 320GB hard drive, mouse, keyboard, LCD monitor, for $400 and buy 2GB of ram(if it doesn't have that much already) for like $30 and it would be orders of magnitude faster than what they have now.

 

[0roo0roo]

more ram
faster harddrive
reinstall windows
and yes 2gb, folks that don't know better end up with toolbar galore etc. you can't assume such folk can keep their systems clean as we do. it is just how it is. old drives...harddrives come a long way, 80gb ones are dog slow compared to the 1gb+ we have today. data density=speed.


its an ok processor for single tasking, if it were a pentium d version it would be more than enough for basic productivity/home use, but at single core its borderline. depends on the level of multitasking i guess.

 

[mmntech]

Originally posted by: Blain
Before I spent one dime on that old hardware, I'd tweak it for all it's worth.
FREE > CCleaner - clean the crap out and scrub the registry
FREE > MSCONFIG > Startup - disable all but necessary programs
FREE > Control Panel > System > Advanced > Performance > "Adjust for best performance"

One thing that will bump your performance, is moving up to 1GB from 512MB of memory.
It's cheaper than 2GBs. 2GBs won't get you much performance (in the apps you listed), than just 1GB.

This. Also, defrag the thing. It's probably solid red bars at this point. Smart Defrag (free) runs in the background and defrags automatically.

2GB is > 1GB even for XP because people who don't know any better will cram their PC with all kinds of programs. A PC with 2GB of ram will always be harder to bog down than a PC with 1GB of ram. These people probably are not enthusiasts.

True. However, 2gb was the standard for gaming on XP. 1gb is plenty for office and web. The OS in itself is pretty lightweight all things considered. It wouldn't hurt to add 2gb but I don't know if it would really be all that beneficial. Going from 512mb to 1gb is going to make a huge difference but I don't know if it will scale well beyond that, given how old the system is.

 

[InflatableBuddha]

Originally posted by: mmntech

Originally posted by: Blain
Before I spent one dime on that old hardware, I'd tweak it for all it's worth.
FREE > CCleaner - clean the crap out and scrub the registry
FREE > MSCONFIG > Startup - disable all but necessary programs
FREE > Control Panel > System > Advanced > Performance > "Adjust for best performance"

One thing that will bump your performance, is moving up to 1GB from 512MB of memory.
It's cheaper than 2GBs. 2GBs won't get you much performance (in the apps you listed), than just 1GB.

This. Also, defrag the thing. It's probably solid red bars at this point. Smart Defrag (free) runs in the background and defrags automatically.

2GB is > 1GB even for XP because people who don't know any better will cram their PC with all kinds of programs. A PC with 2GB of ram will always be harder to bog down than a PC with 1GB of ram. These people probably are not enthusiasts.

True. However, 2gb was the standard for gaming on XP. 1gb is plenty for office and web. The OS in itself is pretty lightweight all things considered. It wouldn't hurt to add 2gb but I don't know if it would really be all that beneficial. Going from 512mb to 1gb is going to make a huge difference but I don't know if it will scale well beyond that, given how old the system is.

I recently used that exact same model at a place where I was housesitting. It was a secondary machine, and the family had reinstalled the OS. As a basic machine, it wasn't too bad. I used it for Word, websurfing, watching YouTube and even doing simple photo edits.

Boot-up and launch times were slower, but acceptable. Once programs were open, they ran decently well. The biggest weakness was that you couldn't have more than about 4 programs open at once because of the limited RAM.

My work PC is a P4 3Ghz, so the CPU is a bit faster, but it has 1GB RAM. Launch times are much faster and I can have a lot of programs open at once, and switch between them quickly. It's well-maintained so it's pretty snappy, except when I have a couple of intensive processes going at once (virus scan + large file read/write + generating Help files, for example). That's a rare scenario though. Also I can't launch multiple programs at once; it doesn't like that.

My home PC is also on Win XP, but it's a C2D with 2GB RAM. It's even snappier, but the biggest advantage is that I can throw a bunch of basic operations at it simultaneously with no slowdown (launch 3 programs at once, for example) that the P4 can't handle.

For basic uses though, I wouldn't bother putting more than 512MB more in that machine. With the extra RAM and a reinstalled OS, they could probably get another 2 years out of the system.

If they can afford a new system though, that's a good call, and then they can put the old Dell to use as a secondary PC.

 

[SonicIce]

Originally posted by: Skyzoomer
Would 1GB be enough if they have several windows open symultaneoulsy? Like Outlook Express, Internet Explorer, MS Word, and maybe MS Excel or a photo viewing/editing program?

definately. its just people have alot of other crap running that they aren't using or aren't aware of.

 

[brblx]

a P4 is enough PC for most. there's no reason to upgrade if all they do surf the web, they've just loaded it up with too much shit. 1gb of memory should be plenty for xp. if they wanna upgrade, tell them to wait until they want or need win7.

 

[lxskllr]

Originally posted by: mmntech



True. However, 2gb was the standard for gaming on XP. 1gb is plenty for office and web.

1gb was still the standard for gaming when I went to a C2D system. Games were *just* starting to break the 1gb barrier, and that was the big debate at the time, 1gb or 2?

1gb is more than enough for an office system, even with a few windows open. Really 512mb is pretty decent for a low end machine. I wouldn't sink much money into it, as it's getting old. Ram and a HD are 1/3 the cost of a new system, and they could get something more powerful/efficient for a little more money. Upcoming failures include PSU, HD, and MB. Anything you put into it now won't be able to go to a new system, so it's like throwing money out.

 

[JackMDS]

Originally posted by: Blain
One thing that will bump your performance, is moving up to 1GB from 512MB of memory.
It's cheaper than 2GBs. 2GBs won't get you much performance (in the apps you listed), than just 1GB.

Amen to Blain. :thumbsup:

XP improves significantly when going from 512MB to 1GB.

Beyond 1GB nothing really happens.

I do not know what slow means it is an empty word unless some kind of reference bench is given.

If there is an empty memory slot, additional 512MB should cost less than $20 and would do it thing.

http://www.surpluscomputers.co...2mb-ddr266-pc2100.html

In most cases "real slow" computer own by "computer ignorant" is slow because of the Junk that is loaded at StartUp.

Many times significant improvement can be achieved by using this simple free utility and selectively enable/disable what is loaded at StartUp.

Then, use the utlity tat follow StartUp on this page (Process Explorer) to see what actually running in memory on the computer.

http://www.ezlan.net/infestation.html#startup

Otherwise wasting other people money is No Help. :shocked:

 

[brblx]

yeah, the OP's customers/friends/whoever would probably be amazed at the difference that can be made with optimization. i've had work PC's, p4's and celerons with 256-512mb, that ran xp fine once they were defragged, had all the nonessential processes removed, and visual options turned off (never even had anyone notice them, plus i dig the win2k look ;O).

 

[Skyzoomer]

Really helpful responses, more than I hoped for. As far as what slow means, they said it is noticeably slower for things to start up and generally sluggish compared to the previous years that they used the PC.

The general concensus seems to be:

1. Add 512 MB to bring them up to 1GB.

2. Stop the garbage background programs from running. - I planned to do by using msconfig startup but the link that JackMDS provided looks to fit the bill. Thanks Jack.

Question about adding RAM:
Their PC uses PC3200, 184 pin, RAM. I think it uses DDR400, unbuffered, non-ECC ram. If RAM purchased is buffered with ECC, or unbuffered with ECC will it still work?

Thanks all for your input!
Sky

 

[brblx]

for the dirt cheapest solution, just buy an additonal 512mb ddr400 dimm. in a non-performance oriented system, i've not seen many issues with unmatched RAM. don't buy ECC RAM to match with non-ECC, the latter should be cheaper, anyway.

 

[Blain]

Originally posted by: Skyzoomer
1. Add 512 MB to bring them up to 1GB.

Question about adding RAM:
Their PC uses PC3200, 184 pin, RAM. I think it uses DDR400, unbuffered, non-ECC ram. If RAM purchased is buffered with ECC, or unbuffered with ECC will it still work?

The Dell Dimension 4600 has 4 DDR slots, while the Dimension 4600C only has two slots.
Basically, I would plan on buying a 1GB (2 x 512MB) kit. That way you're covered, no matter what the current DIMM configuration is.

If you buy from ebay, make sure you specifically get "low density" memory.

 

[Skyzoomer]

Originally posted by: Blain
The Dell Dimension 4600 has 4 DDR slots, while the Dimension 4600C only has two slots.
Basically, I would plan on buying a 1GB (2 x 512MB) kit. That way you're covered, no matter what the current DIMM configuration is.

If you buy from ebay, make sure you specifically get "low density" memory.

Thanks for that info. I'm going to check their PC to verify how many ram slots. Also, even if it has 4 slots, their current 512 MB of ram may be in four 128 MB cards and filling all 4 slots. In that case, (2x512) would be necessary. I also learned that the Dimension 4600 is dual channel capable so they'll need to buy the ram in a matched pair to use that feature. I'll only recommend buying the ram from NewEgg or Amazon, never ebay as I don't want any backlash due to an ebay scammer.

Thanks,
Sky

 

[Blain]

If the Dell is typical, it probably has 2 x 256MB DIMMs installed.
Here you go

 

[Skyzoomer]

Originally posted by: Blain
If the Dell is typical, it probably has 2 x 256MB DIMMs installed.
Here you go

Thanks Blain. That Cosair (2x512) dual channel kit is the exact one that I planned to recommend to them after checking amazon and newegg. :beer:

 

[cparker]

This is real common. Have them wait till october/nov and they could get a fresh, new w7 64 bit machine that runs circles around what they have. Would make them real happy. I'd still put in more ram, defrag/clean up the hard disk anyway right now. It might be enough, and if they give it away to a relative, at least it would be serviceable. Oh yes, make sure they don't have malware, which could be slowing things up.

 

[JackMDS]

Originally posted by: cparker
This is real common. Have them wait till october/nov and they could get a fresh, new w7 64 bit machine that runs circles around what they have.

Yeah Windows7 runs nicely on these type of computers.

However in order to run agile Windows 7 needs more memory than WinXP.

I.e. Windows 7 to Run similar to XP on such a computer needs 2GB RAM as oppose to the 1GB of Win XP.

I put Windows 7 RC on few Dells similar to the above and it works great.

I did not upgraded from XP but did a clean install. In most cases the Dell drivers are already embedded in Win 7.

Sometimes the Network card and Audio would not install the Drivers. Most of these computers have RealTek NIC and Audio, the Drivers are available on RealTEK support or Vista drivers would work well too.

When loaded Win7 in most cases Win7 would resort to VGA Basic Drivers that do not provide 3D acceleration.

There are ways to play with the Video Drivers to get basic 3D, or a new Graphic card need to be installed.

P.S. I also try few P-4 class old Laptops (Dell, Toshiba, Sony) and get similar results.

 

[jae]

Hes talking about upgrading it to 1GB and using it as a spare or give it away, when they get another pc in nov/dec.

 

[Blain]

Originally posted by: jae
Hes talking about upgrading it to 1GB and using it as a spare or give it away, when they get another pc in nov/dec.

Skyzoomer said nothing about another PC in Nov/Dec. :roll:

 

[JackMDS]

Originally posted by: jae
Hes talking about upgrading it to 1GB and using it as a spare or give it away, when they get another pc in nov/dec.

I spend many hours helping others with issue that I am knowledgeable about.

While the center of the posting is the OP, I always keep in mind that there are others that have similar related issues (some are too shy to post) that might benefit when a topic is discussed.

In Psychological terms. The Beauty of the Internet is that it is providing for the "Common Good", rather than just catering to the "Egocentrics". :thumbsup:

P.S. Old P-4 Dell computers very popular in the used computer market, and a lot of people that can not build, or can not effort "Flashy" Rigs for $1000 enjoy them.

Examples, http://pacificgeek.com/

http://www.surpluscomputers.co...cg-77/desktop-pcs.html

Most of these come with Windows XP, or at least XP COA.