P&Ns middle name is and

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shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
81,411
14,545
126
I can explain it easily.
Voting doesnt always have a direct correlation with your personal beliefs. Lots of people vote for the person they think does the least damage, not the person they like.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
35,065
14,158
146
I can explain it easily.
Voting doesnt always have a direct correlation with your personal beliefs. Lots of people vote for the person they think does the least damage, not the person they like.
In Trump's case, voters wanted to do the most damage. Hence the "burn it down" chants, and fact free "lock her up" and "stop the steal" chants.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
10,207
4,952
136
Then riddle me this.

"Eighty percent of Black men supported Joe Biden "
"Biden came close to matching that this year, garnering the support of 91 percent of Black women "

"Early exit polls show President-elect Biden winning the votes of 57 percent of women, compared to 45 percent of men."


For the benchmark that all things Trumpism is fucking evil, women is outpacing men in decision making with a factor of 2.

If all men lost their right to vote *right now*, the world would be an instant better place tomorrow.

I am sorry. But the numbers say we suck.

Best case scenario is that its inherent toxic masculinity that for reasons I will never understand perceives someone like Trump as "Strong" and gravitate towards it... I mean how shitty a father must you have had to get that idea. Jesus fucking christ. - oh and its "best case" cause we can weed it out... worst case is its genetic, testosterone depended, brain wiring, and we're destined to suck forever.

Well, for the first part, it's not that complicated - in fact it's the same phenomena. Those black men accorded patriarchy a higher priority than race. White women in the US have tended to do the exact opposite. The only really consistent opponents of Trumpery have been black women.

It may be true that in the current global turn to the particular kind of authoritarian/fascist right that is now on the rise, there's a large component of gender politics involved - the clue is in the name "strongman". But plenty of women have bought into that as well.

And in any case, that turn to the fascist right seems to me to be a logical development of the previous right-ward turn, the neo-liberal one. Fascism is a consequence of neo-liberalism (and even more so of libertarianism - libertarians aren't themselves fascists, they are just the handmaids and facilitators of fascism).

But I just don't buy that biological essentialist stuff about testosterone. I mean, it's all mediated through culture. In the US women have long been to the left of men as a group - as Ann Coulter pointed out, if women hadn't had the vote there there would have been almost no Democrat Presidents in the last century. Conversely, in the UK, women (up until Blair, at least) have always been more likely to vote Tory - had women not had the vote here, there'd have been far fewer Tory governments, including Thatcher. It's determined by social circumstances and what people perceive as their self-interests, not hormones or biology.

Incidentally I constantly try to supress mentioning my opinion of those precious, and absurdly over-venerated, "founding fathers" for fear of "losing the room".
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
18,813
8,163
136
Well, for the first part, it's not that complicated - in fact it's the same phenomena. Those black men accorded patriarchy a higher priority than race. White women in the US have tended to do the exact opposite. The only really consistent opponents of Trumpery have been black women.

It may be true that in the current global turn to the particular kind of authoritarian/fascist right that is now on the rise, there's a large component of gender politics involved - the clue is in the name "strongman". But plenty of women have bought into that as well.
Yea, maybe. Maybe. Its speculation, but yea, maybe. And even so, then what? How long is it gonna take to weed out that toxic shit and how are you gonna accomplish it?

But I just don't buy that biological essentialist stuff about testosterone. I mean, it's all mediated through culture. In the US women have long been to the left of men as a group - as Ann Coulter pointed out, if women hadn't had the vote there there would have been almost no Democrat Presidents in the last century. Conversely, in the UK, women (up until Blair, at least) have always been more likely to vote Tory - had women not had the vote here, there'd have been far fewer Tory governments, including Thatcher. It's determined by social circumstances and what people perceive as their self-interests, not hormones or biology.
I do. However its anecdotal at best but I am firmly convinced that for highly complex and compact sociological constructs, testosterone is doing no one any favors. Why is it anecdotal? Well in a past life I had a pretty good handle on my serum testosterone levels, so did the crew I ran with back then, going from sub normal ranges(off cycle) to anywhere between 2x to 20x normal serum levels.
It fucks with your mind and not in a good way. If adrenaline is our first combat hormone, testosterone is a sure second. Now I am a pretty chill and in control guy so I recognize what is going on and offset adjust some triggers and be able to cruise this elevated state "normal" .. But some of the guys? Damn, self control gone man. Had one dude flip on another dude on a regular Wednesday cause he looked at his girl funny... at the bus stop(many stories like this). Anecdotal, yes, but it was the androgens, 100%, we all felt it. Come off cycle? Dudes be like girls on their first period. Crying.
Testosterone sucks. It also feels so fucking good.

Incidentally I constantly try to supress mentioning my opinion of those precious, and absurdly over-venerated, "founding fathers" for fear of "losing the room".
I get that too, and its hella frustrating, its like you cant have a conversation about something cause there is a rabid dog in the room. You know its a convo worth having you also know the rabid dog will go super rabid in the presence of red meat.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
54,630
9,441
126
A local Super Karen who was on the news having a meltdown (that went viral) at a school board meeting is mad because everyone is laughing at her Facebook posts.

She changed her last name on Facebook after her video went viral for ALL the wrong reasons and she was ridiculed.

She used her super white woman wealth to track us down and cry.


Screenshot 2021-11-26 152512.jpg
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
54,630
9,441
126
Local viral School board attacking Karen intensifies her Karening with mega Karenized attacks.

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