Oy ... Live Mics Are Such Dangerous Things

[Stoneburner]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: QED
According to her, the "it's over" line was in reference to Republican leader's beliefs that whatever their base believes is what the American public believes.

She'd fall on her sword for her party, so it's no surprise she's quickly apologizing/denying/recalling everything.

you wouldn't believe someone if they told you the sky was blue if they had an R next to their name.

This is peggy noonan... she would suicide bomb a nursery if she thought it would bring back Ronald Reagan.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: QED
A Note from Peggy Noonan:

Wednesday afternoon, in a live MSNBC television panel hosted by NBC's political analyst Chuck Todd, and along with Republican strategist Mike Murphy, we discussed Sarah Palin's speech this evening to the Republican National Convention. I said she has to tell us in her speech who she is, what she believes, and why she's here. We spoke of Republican charges that the media has been unfair to Mrs. Palin, and I defended the view that while the media should investigate every quote and vote she's made, and look deeply into her career, it has been unjust in its treatment of her family circumstances, and deserved criticism for this.

When the segment was over and MSNBC was in commercial, Todd, Murphy and I continued our conversation, talking about the Palin choice overall. We were speaking informally, with some passion ? and into live mics. An audio tape of that conversation was sent, how or by whom I don't know, onto the internet. And within three hours I was receiving it from friends far and wide, asking me why I thought the McCain campaign is "over", as it says in the transcript of the conversation. Here I must plead some confusion. In our off-air conversation, I got on the subject of the leaders of the Republican party assuming, now, that whatever the base of the Republican party thinks is what America thinks. I made the case that this is no longer true, that party leaders seem to me stuck in the assumptions of 1988 and 1994, the assumptions that reigned when they were young and coming up. "The first lesson they learned is the one they remember," I said to Todd ? and I'm pretty certain that is a direct quote. But, I argued, that's over, those assumptions are yesterday, the party can no longer assume that its base is utterly in line with the thinking of the American people. And when I said, "It's over!" ? and I said it more than once ? that is what I was referring to. I am pretty certain that is exactly what Todd and Murphy understood I was referring to. In the truncated version of the conversation, on the Web, it appears I am saying the McCain campaign is over. I did not say it, and do not think it. In fact, at an on-the-record press symposium on the campaign on Monday, when all of those on the panel were pressed to predict who would win, I said that I didn't know, but that we just might find "This IS a country for old men." That is, McCain may well win. I do not think the campaign is over, I do not think this is settled, and did not suggest, back to the Todd-Murphy conversation, that "It's over."

However, I did say two things that I haven't said in public, either in speaking or in my writing. One is a vulgar epithet that I wish I could blame on the mood of the moment but cannot. No one else, to my memory, swore. I just blurted. The other, more seriously, is a real criticism that I had not previously made, but only because I hadn't thought of it. And it is connected to a thought I had this morning, Wednesday morning, and wrote to a friend. Here it is. Early this morning I saw Texas Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison, and as we chatted about the McCain campaign (she thoughtfully and supportively) I looked into her eyes and thought, Why not her? Had she been vetted for the vice presidency, and how did it come about that it was the less experienced Mrs. Palin who was chosen? I didn't ask these questions or mention them, I just thought them. Later in the morning, still pondering this, I thought of something that had happened exactly 20 years before. It was just after the 1988 Republican convention ended. I was on the plane, as a speechwriter, that took Republican presidential nominee George H.W. Bush, and the new vice presidential nominee, Dan Quayle, from New Orleans, the site of the convention, to Indiana. Sitting next to Mr. Quayle was the other senator from that state, Richard Lugar. As we chatted, I thought, "Why him and not him?" Why Mr. Quayle as the choice, and not the more experienced Mr. Lugar? I came to think, in following years, that some of the reason came down to what is now called The Narrative. The story the campaign wishes to tell about itself, and communicate to others. I don't like the idea of The Narrative. I think it is ... a barnyard epithet. And, oddly enough, it is something that Republicans are not very good at, because it's not where they live, it's not what they're about, it's too fancy. To the extent the McCain campaign was thinking in these terms, I don't like that either. I do like Mrs. Palin, because I like the things she espouses. And because, frankly, I met her once and liked her. I suspect, as I say further in here, that her candidacy will be either dramatically successful or a dramatically not; it won't be something in between.

But, bottom line, I am certainly sorry I blurted my barnyard ephithet, I am certainly sorry that someone abused my meaning in the use of the words, "It's over", and I'm sorry I didn't have the Kay Baily Hutchison thought before this morning, because I could have written of it. There. Now: onto today's column.

According to her, the "it's over" line was in reference to Republican leader's beliefs that whatever their base believes is what the American public believes.

Haha, spin, spin sugar. Love it.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: Stoneburner

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: QED
According to her, the "it's over" line was in reference to Republican leader's beliefs that whatever their base believes is what the American public believes.

She'd fall on her sword for her party, so it's no surprise she's quickly apologizing/denying/recalling everything.

you wouldn't believe someone if they told you the sky was blue if they had an R next to their name.

This is peggy noonan... she would suicide bomb a nursery if she thought it would bring back Ronald Reagan.

in fairness, I hear zombie reagan can kick some serious ass

 

[Lemon law]

To some extent, serious pure comedy gold for democrats, the GOP PR machine caught in the act in the old open mike mistake. Telling the American people one thing in public and what they really think in what they though was private. Opps

Its the absolute end to the GOP, if and only if you think Mike Murphy and Peggy Noonan are the GOP. And if they are so damn smart, why the hell are they not running for public office? Or better yet, if we want to have the unity odd couple ticket, maybe James Carville and Mary Matalin should run on the family values ticket.

But even as a partisan democrats, I see some things to like about Sarah Palin. And in some ways, its a healthy debate for the American people to have.

And if we can take all our political spin professionals, open up garbage can, and consign the lot of them there, maybe we the American people can have a honest election debate for a damn change.

 

[Pepsei]

ah... truth is good... maybe we need to have hot mics everywhere.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
I kinda like Mike Murphy, even if he can sometimes be a talking point blowhard on air.

Never been a big fan of Peggy ....

Don't know about her personally, but as a speechwriter she put some beautiful words in the mouths of both Reagan and the elder Bush, so I do admire her command of her craft.

She is an amazing speech writer.

She wrote the second best line of Reagan's Presidency.
"We will never forget them, nor the last time we saw them, this morning, as they prepared for their journey and waved goodbye and 'slipped the surly bonds of Earth' to 'touch the face of God."
Although the last line comes from a poem about pilots. (the best line of course would be "tear down this wall")

She also came up with the "a kinder, gentler nation" bit for HW.

 

[Harvey]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[First]

That is some damn impressive backtracking by Noonan. She knows her party has changed for the worse.

 

[HomerJS]

Bump for hilarity

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
I kinda like Mike Murphy, even if he can sometimes be a talking point blowhard on air.

Never been a big fan of Peggy ....

Don't know about her personally, but as a speechwriter she put some beautiful words in the mouths of both Reagan and the elder Bush, so I do admire her command of her craft.

She is an amazing speech writer.

She wrote the second best line of Reagan's Presidency.
"We will never forget them, nor the last time we saw them, this morning, as they prepared for their journey and waved goodbye and 'slipped the surly bonds of Earth' to 'touch the face of God."
Although the last line comes from a poem about pilots. (the best line of course would be "tear down this wall")

She also came up with the "a kinder, gentler nation" bit for HW.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To a great extent, just as Non Prof John loves the beautiful slogan that bolsters his side, as a human being, I despise and fear the tools of demagogic manipulators
regardless of which side they are on.

Slogans are never a substitute for critical thinking.

And in a nutshell, are what is wrong with our politics.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
That is some damn impressive backtracking by Noonan. She knows her party has changed for the worse.

Her party is changing. I can't agree that it is for the worse. We aren't there yet.

and that is a long-winded response. She should have just not said anything.

Now she revealed her true colors twice.

 

[jonks]

Train wreck. I think Chuck Todd might bear the brunt of this though because he's been the mini-Russert. Apolitical, empirical, direct. Noonan and Murphy are out and out republicans so hearing them talk about republicans isn't going to really hurt them. I hope Todd comes out unscathed as he's one of the few non-sickening personalities on news tv.

 

[tweaker2]

The ratings driven veneer of sensationalism the MSM have been attempting to mislead us with along with the stark ramblings the repubs-in-denial have been painfully and publicly fooling themselves with is built upon a shaky foundation of illusion, while reality in the form of an 8.0 earthquake-in-waiting is being studiously ignored until it actually hits and creates the necessity for people to finally face it and accept its consequences.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
I kinda like Mike Murphy, even if he can sometimes be a talking point blowhard on air.

Never been a big fan of Peggy ....

Don't know about her personally, but as a speechwriter she put some beautiful words in the mouths of both Reagan and the elder Bush, so I do admire her command of her craft.

I agree she can spin a beautiful phrase. Some of her lines are almost lyrical. Few have her way with the written word transformed into speech ...

So whatever reason I find her commentary and punditry 'flinty' (sorry I can't turn a phrase - lol). I tune in primarily to MSNBC because of Scarborough, Matthews, Olbermann, Buchanan, et al, and to me (in that setting with those talking heads) she doesn't bring much to the table.

I understand the distinctions between writers, speechwriters, pundits, commentators, talking heads, etc. I think she has difficulty with the 'crossover' from written word to broadcast media. I don't take the WSJ so I'm not up to speed on her weekly work - so my comments have to be taken in context.

What I think this episode actually brings to the forefront is the debate over style versus substance. A speechwriter creates the facade of the politician and for the most part Americans eat it up. This episode is the ol' public/private face debate.

I used to be John McCain's biggest fan - even more so after after he got trashed by the Bush Machine in 2000. I even accepted Keating as just a poor decision - we all make them from time to time. And I was for the surge before McCain was - lol - because we never put the men and women on the ground in Iraq when they were most needed to avoid the clusterf**k we have now.

The straight-talk express is just Johnnie Neo McCon these days. When he started pandering to Falwell and Dobson he was losing me - and he lost me completely when he back-flipped on everything from immigration to tax cuts to the federal debt. For political expediency.

So we have this public facade of a 'maverick with character'. In reality he has now become the front-man for a slick political machine that panders to the ugliest of common denominators. It's the same playbook we have seen time and time again.

 

[ayabe]

The problem is that the average voter isn't just "low-information" but they are severely "mis-under-informed".

So in the end, all that matters are the pretty pictures on TV and the empty rhetoric.

"I stood up to Big Oil!" - Translation - "I stood by Big Oil, they are my BFF's"

"I torpedo'd the Bridge to Nowhere" - Translation - "I wanted it so badly I could taste it, well until it got on the national radar"

People can say whatever they want about themselves and the "people" lap it up. This is true of both sides.

But this train is already steaming towards it's destination, we'll just have to hope that there are enough voters out there with enough sense to see this as a total sham.

At the risk of being accused of hyperbole, Palin reminds me of Incitatus, who was Caligula's horse whom he tried to nominate as consul to disrespect the Roman Senate.

In the same fashion, McCain's nomination is a complete slap to the face of the office of the VP.

It's really awesome though to see R operatives call a duck a duck, just wish they had the balls to do it on live TV. This little tidbit won't get much play and the "people" probably don't care, because, well, she's a hockey mom.

Well hu-fucking-rah. :brokenheart:

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: ayabe
"I torpedo'd the Bridge to Nowhere" - Translation - "I wanted it so badly I could taste it, well until it got on the national radar"

And, she KEPT AND SPENT the millions of dollars of money we sent her for it.

 

[zephyrprime]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
I doubt she forgot what she wrote there, but the fact is that it's more likely that she's just lying through her teeth in this column, trying to tie into the faux populism that seems to have become the thing to do on the right lately.

QFT. You just can't trust what these bubblehead people write. It's all just done to manipulate. You've gotta trust your own senses and judgement.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: ayabe
"I torpedo'd the Bridge to Nowhere" - Translation - "I wanted it so badly I could taste it, well until it got on the national radar"

And, she KEPT AND SPENT the millions of dollars of money we sent her for it.

It's funny (not in a haha but sad way) when you read through internet stuff from the time period. Apparently there is a radio recording from a borough meeting in the Ketchikan bridge area that Palin attended where she took great umbrage to the term 'Bridge To Nowhere' during the fiasco. After Congress shot it down she ran out it front of it in Alaska (after the State DOT shot it down - lol) in the Fall of 2007.

"Palin said Alaska?s congressional delegation worked hard to obtain funding for the bridge as part of a package deal and that she 'would not stand in the way of the progress toward that bridge.' "
Ketchikan Daily News 9/2006

?She didn't make the announcement here in Ketchikan. She didn't alert local mayors that she'd made the decision. She didn't notify Ketchikan's Representative or Senator, or even the Congressional delegation, apparently, that a decision was made and an announcement was on its way. No, the effective end of three decades of effort towards a bridge was announced in a press release launched ? perhaps coincidentally ? early in the day to meet the East Coast media deadlines.?
Ketchikan Daily News Editorial, 10/11/07 - on Palin's abrupt decisions to cancel the bridge funding by sending out a 5am press release to hit East Coast news cycles

If that radio segment still exists (not magically 'disappeared') I imagine it would become part of a media campaign this Fall.

 

[DukeN]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: QED
According to her, the "it's over" line was in reference to Republican leader's beliefs that whatever their base believes is what the American public believes.

She'd fall on her sword for her party, so it's no surprise she's quickly apologizing/denying/recalling everything.

you wouldn't believe someone if they told you the sky was blue if they had an R next to their name.

Why would you trust a Republican with anything? Besides the sky isn't blue, that's the effect of air particles/refraction (hint for uptight neocons: that's a bit of sarcasm).

Gotta love the GOP apologists - their own drudgernauts got caught with their pants down (just like their Senators) and the attempts at damage control begin, without an iota of honesty. How about stating how you truly feel, rather than keep up the party face to a nation full of people?

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: DukeN

Gotta love the GOP apologists - their own drudgernauts got caught with their pants down (just like their Senators) and the attempts at damage control begin, without an iota of honesty. How about stating how you truly feel, rather than keep up the party face to a nation full of people?

Damn you! loki and I hate when you people call us GOP apologist.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: lupi

Damn you! loki and I hate when you people call us GOP apologist.

Would you prefer sycophant? Or, in more colloquial tems, ass kisser, for those of you too slow to handle words with more than two syllables? :laugh:

 

[Pepsei]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
I kinda like Mike Murphy, even if he can sometimes be a talking point blowhard on air.

Never been a big fan of Peggy ....

Don't know about her personally, but as a speechwriter she put some beautiful words in the mouths of both Reagan and the elder Bush, so I do admire her command of her craft.

She is an amazing speech writer.

She wrote the second best line of Reagan's Presidency.
"We will never forget them, nor the last time we saw them, this morning, as they prepared for their journey and waved goodbye and 'slipped the surly bonds of Earth' to 'touch the face of God."
Although the last line comes from a poem about pilots. (the best line of course would be "tear down this wall")

She also came up with the "a kinder, gentler nation" bit for HW.

let's not forget "read my lips, no new taxes" works great during the election, not so great after the taxes.