Oxygen sensor lead wire severed

[IronWing]

I have a an 88 Olds Custom Cruiser (carbureted) and the engine light started coming on intermittently. Looking under the hood, I found that the oxygen sensor wire is severed where it connects to the sensor. I am planning on replacing the Olds by October. Is there any reason to repair the sensor on a car that likely has higher scrap value than resale value?

 

[slickvic000]

First rule with oxygen sensors is to replace them if any of the wires going into the sensor are damaged. This is because most oxygen sensors use the wires to supply oxygen to the middle of the sensor which allows the sensor the operate correctly. If a repair included soldering or connecting a new wire to a broken one, you cut off the oxygen to the middle of the sensor which will cause skewed voltage readings back to the ecu. It is kind of hard to believe, but oxygen does make its way down the wires,underneath the plastic covering, into the sensor. If the wire is only partially sliced into, you could try to get away with wrapping it with electrical tape. For your year Olds, I believe the sensor has 1 wire and uses the exhaust piping as a ground. You may be able to find one rather cheap if the wire is completely severed. Driving around with a damaged oxygen sensor will more than likely cause you to drive around too rich or too lean which will cause another series of problems.

 

[Bignate603]

With a bad O2 sensor you'll eventually roast your catalytic converter. The computer should default to running rich, which would also make you use more gas. If you check out Rockauto you can probably find it for fairly cheap. You can change an 02 sensor fairly easily.

 

[thedarkwolf]

Just tape/solder/splice the wires back together. If it works it works.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: slickvic000
First rule with oxygen sensors is to replace them if any of the wires going into the sensor are damaged. This is because most oxygen sensors use the wires to supply oxygen to the middle of the sensor which allows the sensor the operate correctly. If a repair included soldering or connecting a new wire to a broken one, you cut off the oxygen to the middle of the sensor which will cause skewed voltage readings back to the ecu. It is kind of hard to believe, but oxygen does make its way down the wires,underneath the plastic covering, into the sensor. If the wire is only partially sliced into, you could try to get away with wrapping it with electrical tape. For your year Olds, I believe the sensor has 1 wire and uses the exhaust piping as a ground. You may be able to find one rather cheap if the wire is completely severed. Driving around with a damaged oxygen sensor will more than likely cause you to drive around too rich or too lean which will cause another series of problems.

If it's just a severed line and the O2 is fine splice it since you are getting rid of the car. Universal O2's have to be spliced in anyway.

If you don't fix it you will waste gas, have crappy performance and possibly toast your cat if the car runs rich.

 

[Rumpltzer]

Originally posted by: slickvic000
First rule with oxygen sensors is to replace them if any of the wires going into the sensor are damaged. This is because most oxygen sensors use the wires to supply oxygen to the middle of the sensor which allows the sensor the operate correctly. If a repair included soldering or connecting a new wire to a broken one, you cut off the oxygen to the middle of the sensor which will cause skewed voltage readings back to the ecu. It is kind of hard to believe, but oxygen does make its way down the wires,underneath the plastic covering, into the sensor. If the wire is only partially sliced into, you could try to get away with wrapping it with electrical tape. For your year Olds, I believe the sensor has 1 wire and uses the exhaust piping as a ground. You may be able to find one rather cheap if the wire is completely severed. Driving around with a damaged oxygen sensor will more than likely cause you to drive around too rich or too lean which will cause another series of problems.

Wouldn't wrapping the wire to an oxygen sensor "where it connects to the sensor" create the smell of burned electrical tape... along with melted (if not burned) electrical tape?

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: slickvic000
This is because most oxygen sensors use the wires to supply oxygen to the middle of the sensor which allows the sensor the operate correctly. If a repair included soldering or connecting a new wire to a broken one, you cut off the oxygen to the middle of the sensor which will cause skewed voltage readings back to the ecu. It is kind of hard to believe, but oxygen does make its way down the wires,underneath the plastic covering, into the sensor. If the wire is only partially sliced into, you could try to get away with wrapping it with electrical tape.

HUH, WUT?

 

[Toastedlightly]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: slickvic000
This is because most oxygen sensors use the wires to supply oxygen to the middle of the sensor which allows the sensor the operate correctly. If a repair included soldering or connecting a new wire to a broken one, you cut off the oxygen to the middle of the sensor which will cause skewed voltage readings back to the ecu. It is kind of hard to believe, but oxygen does make its way down the wires,underneath the plastic covering, into the sensor. If the wire is only partially sliced into, you could try to get away with wrapping it with electrical tape.

HUH, WUT?

I concur doctor.

 

[rezinn]

You should be able to replace it for less than 50 bucks, but will most likely be a pain in the ass as it'll be in there tight and probably require you to have run the car to heat up the exhaust manifold to loosen it up. I'd try to just solder the wire first and see if you can get away with it. If not, you can use a standard deep socket to remove it but you might need an oxygen sensor socket to put the new one on if you can't get at it with a wrench.

You never know, replacing it might save you money on gas in the long run. Those cars tend to run pretty rich without an o2 sensor.

 

[PottedMeat]

Is there enough wire on the sensor to splice to the rest of the cable? If you could just solder or hell just jam a needle between the broken ends that may be fine. You just want it to last so you can dump it right?

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: slickvic000
This is because most oxygen sensors use the wires to supply oxygen to the middle of the sensor which allows the sensor the operate correctly. If a repair included soldering or connecting a new wire to a broken one, you cut off the oxygen to the middle of the sensor which will cause skewed voltage readings back to the ecu. It is kind of hard to believe, but oxygen does make its way down the wires,underneath the plastic covering, into the sensor. If the wire is only partially sliced into, you could try to get away with wrapping it with electrical tape.

HUH, WUT?

I concur doctor.

slickvic000 is correct in that heated oxygen sensors require a supply of oxygen inside them for proper operation.

A quote from a GM service manual;

Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S) wire. An oxygen supply inside the HO2S is necessary for proper HO2S operation. This supply of oxygen is supplied through the HO2S wires. All HO2S wires and connections should be inspected for breaks or contamination that could prevent reference oxygen from reaching the HO2S.

The above pertains to 4 wire oxygen sensors.

This is an older vehicle and my memory is a little sketchy, but I highly doubt this car uses a heated oxygen sensor. (Edit: Just re-read OP and with a carburetor, no way is this a Heated O2 sensor) As such, it should be considerably cheaper to replace. If you just want to get by, strip and solder the ends on the broken lead and go for it. Heat shrink tubing will hold up far better than electrical tape to insulate the splice from grounding, the elements etc. Myself, I'd replace it, especially since it sounds like it's easy to get to. If you're on a budget, try the repair.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: rezinn
You never know, replacing it might save you money on gas in the long run. Those cars tend to run pretty rich without an o2 sensor.

Excellent advice IMO.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: slickvic000
This is because most oxygen sensors use the wires to supply oxygen to the middle of the sensor which allows the sensor the operate correctly. If a repair included soldering or connecting a new wire to a broken one, you cut off the oxygen to the middle of the sensor which will cause skewed voltage readings back to the ecu. It is kind of hard to believe, but oxygen does make its way down the wires,underneath the plastic covering, into the sensor. If the wire is only partially sliced into, you could try to get away with wrapping it with electrical tape.

HUH, WUT?

I concur doctor.

slickvic000 is correct in that heated oxygen sensors require a supply of oxygen inside them for proper operation.

A quote from a GM service manual;

Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S) wire. An oxygen supply inside the HO2S is necessary for proper HO2S operation. This supply of oxygen is supplied through the HO2S wires. All HO2S wires and connections should be inspected for breaks or contamination that could prevent reference oxygen from reaching the HO2S.

The above pertains to 4 wire oxygen sensors.

This is an older vehicle and my memory is a little sketchy, but I highly doubt this car uses a heated oxygen sensor. (Edit: Just re-read OP and with a carburetor, no way is this a Heated O2 sensor) As such, it should be considerably cheaper to replace. If you just want to get by, strip and solder the ends on the broken lead and go for it. Heat shrink tubing will hold up far better than electrical tape to insulate the splice from grounding, the elements etc. Myself, I'd replace it, especially since it sounds like it's easy to get to. If you're on a budget, try the repair.

I can't see how this is even possible.....a four wire setup is usually Sensor +, Sensor -, Heater +, Heater -. The sensor itself reads the O2 in the exhaust stream and converts it to an electrical reading.

I am thinking that quote above is pertaining to the O2 signal being passed not the gaseous O2.

If this were the case it would need something other than a wire to pass it reliably.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: slickvic000
This is because most oxygen sensors use the wires to supply oxygen to the middle of the sensor which allows the sensor the operate correctly. If a repair included soldering or connecting a new wire to a broken one, you cut off the oxygen to the middle of the sensor which will cause skewed voltage readings back to the ecu. It is kind of hard to believe, but oxygen does make its way down the wires,underneath the plastic covering, into the sensor. If the wire is only partially sliced into, you could try to get away with wrapping it with electrical tape.

HUH, WUT?

I concur doctor.

slickvic000 is correct in that heated oxygen sensors require a supply of oxygen inside them for proper operation.

A quote from a GM service manual;

Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S) wire. An oxygen supply inside the HO2S is necessary for proper HO2S operation. This supply of oxygen is supplied through the HO2S wires. All HO2S wires and connections should be inspected for breaks or contamination that could prevent reference oxygen from reaching the HO2S.

The above pertains to 4 wire oxygen sensors.

This is an older vehicle and my memory is a little sketchy, but I highly doubt this car uses a heated oxygen sensor. (Edit: Just re-read OP and with a carburetor, no way is this a Heated O2 sensor) As such, it should be considerably cheaper to replace. If you just want to get by, strip and solder the ends on the broken lead and go for it. Heat shrink tubing will hold up far better than electrical tape to insulate the splice from grounding, the elements etc. Myself, I'd replace it, especially since it sounds like it's easy to get to. If you're on a budget, try the repair.

I can't see how this is even possible.....a four wire setup is usually Sensor +, Sensor -, Heater +, Heater -. The sensor itself reads the O2 in the exhaust stream and converts it to an electrical reading.

I am thinking that quote above is pertaining to the O2 signal being passed not the gaseous O2.

If this were the case it would need something other than a wire to pass it reliably.

I understand your thinking, as it didn't make sense to me either, but besides that being a word for word quote from a 1994 Covette manual, I got it on very good authority years ago that this was in fact the case. The oxygen is passed by the wires. I crewed on a racing team for about 8 years. We raced Corvettes and the owner of the team and one other team member were engineers for GM. http://www.djrace.com/

If you look closely at the insulation used on those wires, it is not a vinyl material, it is in fact a fabric of some sort. (At least it appears to be) It was never fully explained to me how the oxygen is passed, but I assume it is through that fabric insulation. I also have to assume that very little "flow" so to speak is required.

Edit: Here is a scan of the page in the manual. Two things. I just posted it as it was scanned. It's huge. The wording is under Dignostic Aids: in the lower left. Also, it's a big thick bound manual and the right side of the page did not scan. I'm afraid to push down on the glass any harder.

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/boomerang/HO2S.jpg

 

[StageLeft]

I wouldn't bet my life on it, but frankly thinking that oxygen is passed through electrical wires is the most baths*t crazy thing I've read on the internet in months.

So, we're saying that in the way electricity is passed through metal wires so is oxygen, down the wires like water in a pipe except this pipe is pure metal and will not allow the transmission of anything solid?

Again, I won't bet my life on it because I've been wrong before but it sounds quite insane.

EDIT: this talks about the wires "breathing". It would seem the O2 doesn't pass down the wire like electricity but through some very small gap.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: boomerang
I understand your thinking, as it didn't make sense to me either, but besides that being a word for word quote from a 1994 Covette manual, I got it on very good authority years ago that this was in fact the case. The oxygen is passed by the wires. I crewed on a racing team for about 8 years. We raced Corvettes and the owner of the team and one other team member were engineers for GM. http://www.djrace.com/

If you look closely at the insulation used on those wires, it is not a vinyl material, it is in fact a fabric of some sort. (At least it appears to be) It was never fully explained to me how the oxygen is passed, but I assume it is through that fabric insulation. I also have to assume that very little "flow" so to speak is required.

Edit: Here is a scan of the page in the manual. Two things. I just posted it as it was scanned. It's huge. The wording is under Dignostic Aids: in the lower left. Also, it's a big thick bound manual and the right side of the page did not scan. I'm afraid to push down on the glass any harder.

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/boomerang/HO2S.jpg

If you crewed rather than just 'helped out', you would know that fabric is heat resistant and almost every O2 sensor I have seen whether 1 to 4 wires has this in place...the purpose is to help keep the wiring from going up in smoke should it get close to the manifold/header.

I don't know why the wording is the way it is, but I don't see how O2 would be allowed to pass outside the actual sensor nor what purpose it could have. The ECU doesn't have an O2 reader inside it.


*edit* saw skoorb's link. The wires aren't conduction O2 down them really...it's just using their entry to allow for air to pass out. Have the wires broken or not makes no difference on this.

 

[boomerang]

alkemyst,

The original single wire O2 sensors used did not have a fabric wrapping on the wiring, they had a vinyl type of insulation that appeared to be similar to the insulation used on conventional wiring. But let's move on.

What is the real problem here? What is really bothering you?

I support a member with factual information about something as trivial as an oxygen sensor. Your panties are in a bunch and you've now turned it into a personal attack on me. As I said, what is it that's really bothering you?

I'm truly sorry that after all the tiresome reading here in this post that you still can't understand what it is I'm trying to explain. If you'd read carefully enough you'd know that I never said anything about the wire being broken affecting the oxygen flow to the internal portion of the O2 sensor. In fact I pointed out the difference between a 2 wire and a 4 wire in that regard.

Yes, I not only crewed, but was part of the team that constructed the cars. One of which won the 1999 Speedvision World Challenge GT series race at Laguna Seca. Our winning driver was a guy by the name of John Heinricy. My being a Die Maker, the team felt my talents would be wasted by "helping out".

I would hope that you would think twice before personally attacking me here again.

Edit: Added 1999

 

[PottedMeat]

That makes sense, the lambda sensor returns a voltage based on the difference in oxygen content in the atmosphere (intake) and exhaust. I guess it doesn't need very much ambient air if all it uses is the air between the wires.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: boomerang
alkemyst,

The original single wire O2 sensors used did not have a fabric wrapping on the wiring, they had a vinyl type of insulation that appeared to be similar to the insulation used on conventional wiring. But let's move on.

My panties are not in a bunch...it just classic how much misinformation is spouted out here and now we have a car maker stating credentials saying this magic fabric carries oxygen.

The fabric is for exactly what I said. It has nothing to do with carrying oxygen. There is a lot that was done years ago that has been changed. Being this is on heated O2 sensors there is probably more heat to be considered along the wiring...my 88 Mustang GT did have a fabric covering over it's sensors when I added the headers the new wiring harness was set up that way. The original was covered in black plastic.

The issue has been figured out though...it has nothing to do with the actual wiring...it's just the same O2 sensor vent that has always been. Instead of putting in a physical hole, they just use the flow from the wiring harness inlet. The actual wiring 'sleeve' is not what's conducting the O2. It simply vents into the atmosphere.