Oxide Games: We only heard about DX12 after sharing Mantle results with MS

[24601]

Mantle is obviously AMD/ATi getting their first internal DX12 driver to a showable state and launching it as "Mantle"

That's why AMD/ATi fed all the reviewers that "it was derived from Microsoft's Xbox One's DirectX."

AMD/ATi likes to lie cheat and steal constantly, and this "Mantle" business is them trying to steal the thunder out of something that wasn't finished and failing at it because they suck at drivers.

 

[hungtran]

Scary thing is some people actually believe this and not see it as sarcasm.

 

[PPB]

Mantle is obviously AMD/ATi getting their first internal DX12 driver to a showable state and launching it as "Mantle"

That's why AMD/ATi fed all the reviewers that "it was derived from Microsoft's Xbox One's DirectX."

AMD/ATi likes to lie cheat and steal constantly, and this "Mantle" business is them trying to steal the thunder out of something that wasn't finished and failing at it because they suck at drivers.

Good desprado portrayal, add more syntax errors next time and you are golden :biggrin:

Infractions issued for member callout and personal attack.
-- stahlhart

 

[BrightCandle]

I don't know who developed what first, I just know AMD got to market with an alpha first. I am still waiting on full access to the API documentation and the documentation on the driver API. Given those I could determine the likelihood that Nvidia could write a driver or not. Until they do that its hard to know.

I kind of wish the open standard (openGL) had been more accommodating to shaders and such in the past, they would find their API wasn't trailing so far behind right now. We have an open standard that is cross platform already, we technically didn't need another one except for the problem that its dragged its feet for the last few years. It could have evolved multithreading and modern features , its just taking to long to release and catch up and think that is a shame since its on phones and consoles (PS3, PS4) and Linux/Windows/Other random OS.

Still a long way to go to see a real winner here, but with more performance on both vendors cards with more consistent fps we win either way.

 

[24601]

I don't know who developed what first, I just know AMD got to market with an alpha first. I am still waiting on full access to the API documentation and the documentation on the driver API. Given those I could determine the likelihood that Nvidia could write a driver or not. Until they do that its hard to know.

I kind of wish the open standard (openGL) had been more accommodating to shaders and such in the past, they would find their API wasn't trailing so far behind right now. We have an open standard that is cross platform already, we technically didn't need another one except for the problem that its dragged its feet for the last few years. It could have evolved multithreading and modern features , its just taking to long to release and catch up and think that is a shame since its on phones and consoles (PS3, PS4) and Linux/Windows/Other random OS.

Still a long way to go to see a real winner here, but with more performance on both vendors cards with more consistent fps we win either way.

We have to remember that DirectX isn't so much "closed" as much as just Microsoft sitting at a table with Nvidia, AMD/ATi, Intel (and possibly Qualcomm since Windows Phone) and hashing a standard together between themselves.

Khronos group, on the other hand, is all the companies that have even tangential interest in OpenGL and OpenCL bickering about what NOT to add because almost none of them have concurrent interests.

At the end of the day, it's Nvidia and AMD/ATi that actually does the development and writing of OpenGL and OpenCL anyways, so it's "openness" is 100% worthless for all practical terms.

 

[TerryMathews]

Actually, it's just entering beta. While I'm sure Jen-Hsun would rather eat dirt than use an AMD API, the opportunity wouldn't have presented itself yet.

[redacted]

You really think if the head of Nvidia called up the head of AMD and said "You know, we really like what you've done with Mantle. Would you provide us the specs so we can write a compliant driver?" that Nvidia wouldnt have the specs overnight?

It would be a tremendous coup for AMD.

Profanity isn't allowed in the technical forums.
-- stahlhart

 

[TerryMathews]

nVidia has access to the API documentation - obviously.

If they dont, its because they haven't asked for it.

 

[DooKey]

Lots of confirmation bias going on in this place.

 

[dn7309]

I guess this goes to show that Microsoft is willing to learn from others when they see a good approach.

more like being lazy until some one else put the pressure on them

 

[AnandThenMan]

AMD/ATi likes to lie cheat and steal constantly, and this "Mantle" business is them trying to steal the thunder out of something that wasn't finished and failing at it because they suck at drivers.

This is not considered inflammatory language or trolling and does not warrant an infraction.

Good desprado portrayal, add more syntax errors next time and you are golden :biggrin:

Infractions issued for member callout and personal attack.
-- stahlhart

But this does.

 

[Silverforce11]

This is not considered inflammatory language or trolling and does not warrant an infraction.

But this does.

It's OK if you attack a company or corporation viciously but its NOT OK to attack a fellow forum member even lightly. Thems the rules.

NV would never use an AMD API, JHH has too much man-pride for that. Look at the dude's biceps, those weren't made for bowing down to your competitor.

 

[mikk]

https://twitter.com/JJcoolkl/status/469187852988080128
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1848952&postcount=1691

Lauritzen disagrees with Baker on the timeline part.

 

[AnandThenMan]

It's OK if you attack a company or corporation viciously but its NOT OK to attack a fellow forum member even lightly. Thems the rules.

Not so I've seen people get infractions for inflammatory language (justified) which that clearly is.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

Hey, now you've brought it to mod callout. *sarcasm* ban!
This whole thread can't end well, why expect any member to behave?

 

[itsmydamnation]

https://twitter.com/JJcoolkl/status/469187852988080128
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1848952&postcount=1691

Lauritzen disagrees with Baker on the timeline part.

find one positive quote from Lauritzen about mantle, he just like anyone else, he has his own agenda. Being a employee of a competitor to AMD doesn't help either.

 

[postmortemIA]

holy spin here... MS like any other monopoly plays do-least charge-most game until they get serious competition

 

[Zstream]

https://twitter.com/JJcoolkl/status/469187852988080128
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1848952&postcount=1691

Lauritzen disagrees with Baker on the timeline part.

Well, I don't see how he came to that conclusion that MS was working on DX12 before Mantel. All he stated, and which I find funny, is that they submitted ideas and to him that constitutes as a basis for timeline.



Just seems like a disgruntled fella.

 

[Phynaz]

Well, I don't see how he came to that conclusion that MS was working on DX12 before Mantel. All he stated, and which I find funny, is that they submitted ideas and to him that constitutes as a basis for timeline.



Just seems like a disgruntled fella.

Because he has been involved. He's the lead of Intel's graphics research.

 

[Phynaz]

find one positive quote from Lauritzen about mantle, he just like anyone else, he has his own agenda. Being a employee of a competitor to AMD doesn't help either.

First, how would this affect his knowledge of the timeline? Are claiming he is lying about working with Microsoft before mantel came along?

Second, he has said plenty of good things about Mantle, and has even said it pushed the Microsoft on the DX12 schedule

 

[Despoiler]

Because he has been involved. He's the lead of Intel's graphics research.

Lead of a graphics research division that no one cares about at all. Intel will do anything to get their name into a discussion concerning graphics because the are a joke in that area.

 

[Phynaz]

Lead of a graphics research division that no one cares about at all. Intel will do anything to get their name into a discussion concerning graphics because the are a joke in that area.

Ummm. What?

Intel owns something like two thirds of the overall graphics market. You think they wouldn't be deeply connected with DX development?

Again, whatever your personal opinion of Intel may be, does it change the facts? Is Andrew lying when he says he was working with Microsoft before Mantle came out?

 

[3DVagabond]

Of course they where working on Dx12. But it's interesting if Mantle pushed the schedule and added or changed features with inspiration from Mantle.

Nope.

Well, last year AMD said that MSFT wasn't working on DX12.
Source

Taylor: We will also tie up in future games bundle with top games. We believe this is the right way. But also for the industry, it is an important sign. Because the computer industry has benefited for many years from a continuous renewal of the DirectX interface. A new DirectX has again and again refreshed the industry, new graphics cards need more processors and more RAM. But there is no DirectX 12 come. That's it. As far as we know there are no plans for DirectX 12 If this is not correct and someone wants to correct me - wonderful. But now we need some truly excellent games like Bioshock Infinite or Crysis 3, on the one hand to stimulate the industry and also to reward our buyers. Therefore, Never Settle is strategically very important for us and will continue to include top titles.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

The point I think most devs working with mantle are trying to make is to basically troll nvidia/Microsoft about dx12 while being under NDA that dx12 is mantle.

 

[Phynaz]

If this is not correct and someone wants to correct me - wonderful.

I guess things are wonderful for him because he's been corrected

 

[3DVagabond]

[redacted]

You really think if the head of Nvidia called up the head of AMD and said "You know, we really like what you've done with Mantle. Would you provide us the specs so we can write a compliant driver?" that Nvidia wouldnt have the specs overnight?

It would be a tremendous coup for AMD.

Profanity isn't allowed in the technical forums.
-- stahlhart

I was only suggesting why it's still GCN only. It's because until recently it was Alpha and has just gone beta. Introducing other companies hardware now would just increase the difficulty of optimizing it for their own (AMD) hardware.

...and no I don't think Jen-Hsun would do that. I actually suggested that he would not want to do that. Thus my he would rather eat dirt comment. (I was speaking figuratively, of course.)

I guess things are wonderful for him because he's been corrected

Who exactly was that. He said that well before DX12 was announced. Besides, as you said as well, there's no way they would have been working on DX12 and AMD wouldn't have been aware of it.