Own a small business in California, do you use family members for volunteer work?

DVK916

Banned
Dec 12, 2005
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Apparently in California it is illegal to have family members do volunteer work at your small business without providing them with workers comp insurance, without giving them atleast minimum wage, and without providing tax to the government for them. This is a law which is apparently enforced.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,442
7,506
136
A simple solution, remove yourself from California. I have, and so do thousands every year. The exodus continues, I hope the Mexicans moving in enjoy paying those taxes.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
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Originally posted by: DVK916
Apparently in California it is illegal to have family members do volunteer work at your small business without providing them with workers comp insurance, without giving them atleast minimum wage, and without providing tax to the government for them. This is a law which is apparently enforced.

And in every other state unless your business is a nonprofit organization.
 

imported_Aelius

Golden Member
Apr 25, 2004
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Originally posted by: DVK916
Apparently in California it is illegal to have family members do volunteer work at your small business without providing them with workers comp insurance, without giving them atleast minimum wage, and without providing tax to the government for them. This is a law which is apparently enforced.

What law?

According to SCOTUS there is no such thing.

An illegal act that is ran as a business (IRS)... there is a classification for this. It's called raketeering... for which there is a law under the RICO Act.

That's the closest law that Income Tax comes to.
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
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Originally posted by: Aelius
Originally posted by: DVK916
Apparently in California it is illegal to have family members do volunteer work at your small business without providing them with workers comp insurance, without giving them atleast minimum wage, and without providing tax to the government for them. This is a law which is apparently enforced.

What law?

According to SCOTUS there is no such thing.

An illegal act that is ran as a business (IRS)... there is a classification for this. It's called raketeering... for which there is a law under the RICO Act.

That's the closest law that Income Tax comes to.

Do you even know what racketeering is? Racketeering has absolutely nothing to do with what this law is.
 

BrownTown

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2005
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On a related note, I am currently reading Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" which is about politicians screwing so much with buisness that htey completely destroy it. In the book the laws they make are so completely absurd that they seem like they could never happen in real life, but darn California sure seems to be trying.
 

imported_Aelius

Golden Member
Apr 25, 2004
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Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: Aelius
Originally posted by: DVK916
Apparently in California it is illegal to have family members do volunteer work at your small business without providing them with workers comp insurance, without giving them atleast minimum wage, and without providing tax to the government for them. This is a law which is apparently enforced.

What law?

According to SCOTUS there is no such thing.

An illegal act that is ran as a business (IRS)... there is a classification for this. It's called raketeering... for which there is a law under the RICO Act.

That's the closest law that Income Tax comes to.

Do you even know what racketeering is? Racketeering has absolutely nothing to do with what this law is.

It's the definition of raketeering actually. Just because it's government doesn't mean anything.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,044
33,087
136
Originally posted by: Aelius
Originally posted by: DVK916
Apparently in California it is illegal to have family members do volunteer work at your small business without providing them with workers comp insurance, without giving them atleast minimum wage, and without providing tax to the government for them. This is a law which is apparently enforced.

What law?

According to SCOTUS there is no such thing.

An illegal act that is ran as a business (IRS)... there is a classification for this. It's called raketeering... for which there is a law under the RICO Act.

That's the closest law that Income Tax comes to.

Unless I really missed something, the legality of income taxes is pretty well established by the US constitution and the 16th Amendment.
 

wirelessenabled

Platinum Member
Feb 5, 2001
2,190
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91
Originally posted by: ntdz
More idiotic policies stifling business in California.

Yup! California's policies are so idiotic that it ranks 12th in per capita income. Not bad for a state with the largest population and having a huge illegal immigrant problem.

Maybe Texas (ranked 32) and some of the Gulf Coast ought to look at some of these idiotic policies to get their economies out of the rut they have been in for generations.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,561
4
0
Originally posted by: wirelessenabled
Originally posted by: ntdz
More idiotic policies stifling business in California.

Yup! California's policies are so idiotic that it ranks 12th in per capita income. Not bad for a state with the largest population and having a huge illegal immigrant problem.

Maybe Texas (ranked 32) and some of the Gulf Coast ought to look at some of these idiotic policies to get their economies out of the rut they have been in for generations.
BBWWWAAAAHHHHHH!!!!
/PWNED

 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,561
4
0
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: wirelessenabled
Originally posted by: ntdz
More idiotic policies stifling business in California.

Yup! California's policies are so idiotic that it ranks 12th in per capita income. Not bad for a state with the largest population and having a huge illegal immigrant problem.

Maybe Texas (ranked 32) and some of the Gulf Coast ought to look at some of these idiotic policies to get their economies out of the rut they have been in for generations.
BBWWWAAAAHHHHHH!!!!
/PWNED

You should start a thread about this!!!!
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,044
33,087
136
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: wirelessenabled
Originally posted by: ntdz
More idiotic policies stifling business in California.

Yup! California's policies are so idiotic that it ranks 12th in per capita income. Not bad for a state with the largest population and having a huge illegal immigrant problem.

Maybe Texas (ranked 32) and some of the Gulf Coast ought to look at some of these idiotic policies to get their economies out of the rut they have been in for generations.
BBWWWAAAAHHHHHH!!!!
/PWNED

Texas is perhaps not the best example to denigrate since their GSP is 2nd behind California. Cali better watch it's back though, Arizona and Nevada are experiencing tremendous growth from people/businesses moving out of CA and have extremely friendly tax structures.
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
Originally posted by: wirelessenabled
Originally posted by: ntdz
More idiotic policies stifling business in California.

Yup! California's policies are so idiotic that it ranks 12th in per capita income. Not bad for a state with the largest population and having a huge illegal immigrant problem.

Maybe Texas (ranked 32) and some of the Gulf Coast ought to look at some of these idiotic policies to get their economies out of the rut they have been in for generations.

Per capita income has nothing to do with what we're talking about, and illegal immigrant wages aren't counted. When you factor in the cost of living, the playing field is much more even. Taxing small businesses for BS reasons is not going to help grow the economy. Maybe you should read up about California's debt, which is higher than any other state's, by far. Read these articles you genius and get back to me:

http://capoliticalnews.com/s/spip.php?article65

According to the Index, if California was as free as Kansas, the best state in the rankings, each Californian would see their annual income increase by a sum of $1,180. Not surprisingly, the weight of this ?tax? correlates with population migration patterns across the country.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/02/24/BUGUN56L9L1.DTL

Discouraged by high costs and strict regulations, just under 60 percent of California business leaders interviewed for a new study said they have policies to restrict job growth in the state or move jobs to other locations in the United States.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,442
7,506
136
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: wirelessenabled
Originally posted by: ntdz
More idiotic policies stifling business in California.

Yup! California's policies are so idiotic that it ranks 12th in per capita income. Not bad for a state with the largest population and having a huge illegal immigrant problem.

Maybe Texas (ranked 32) and some of the Gulf Coast ought to look at some of these idiotic policies to get their economies out of the rut they have been in for generations.
BBWWWAAAAHHHHHH!!!!
/PWNED

It's called inflation. People have to earn more just to make ends meet, but they pay a hell of a lot more in return.
 
Oct 30, 2004
11,442
32
91
Originally posted by: BrownTown
On a related note, I am currently reading Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" which is about politicians screwing so much with buisness that htey completely destroy it. In the book the laws they make are so completely absurd that they seem like they could never happen in real life, but darn California sure seems to be trying.

Sadly, and much to Rand's chagrin, her great novel seems to be well on its way to becoming prophetic, though the exact details of the mechinations of the fulfillment of the prophecy will be a little different than how they occurred in the novel.

In fact, I think she once said something to the effect that one of the purposes of the novel was, "The purpose of this novel is to keep it from becoming prophetic."

I also think that the movie Idiocracy might prove to be prophetic. One theory about why FOX didn't want people to be able to see it in the theaters is that it might have hit too close to home. Borat wasn't a problem because people accept the notion of racial and ethnic stereotypes and can laugh at it. However, when a movie comes out and says that it's bad when stupid people have children and that by doing so they are weakening the gene pool (dysgenics) and that the result will be a low-IQ future society of morons, it's a problem. I suspect that because much of FOX's TV audience is said morons, FOX didn't want the public to be aware of Mike Judge's new movie.
 
Oct 30, 2004
11,442
32
91
Originally posted by: wirelessenabled

Yup! California's policies are so idiotic that it ranks 12th in per capita income. Not bad for a state with the largest population and having a huge illegal immigrant problem.

The problem is that is also ranks highly for cost of living. In contrast, in 32nd per capita income Texas the cost of a nice house is probably 1/3 (or less) that of the cost in California. Consequently, if it were possible to calculate a per-capita-income-to-cost-of-living index (or a purchasing power index), California might not do so well.
 

marincounty

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,227
5
76
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: wirelessenabled
Originally posted by: ntdz
More idiotic policies stifling business in California.

Yup! California's policies are so idiotic that it ranks 12th in per capita income. Not bad for a state with the largest population and having a huge illegal immigrant problem.

Maybe Texas (ranked 32) and some of the Gulf Coast ought to look at some of these idiotic policies to get their economies out of the rut they have been in for generations.

Per capita income has nothing to do with what we're talking about, and illegal immigrant wages aren't counted. When you factor in the cost of living, the playing field is much more even. Taxing small businesses for BS reasons is not going to help grow the economy. Maybe you should read up about California's debt, which is higher than any other state's, by far. Read these articles you genius and get back to me:

http://capoliticalnews.com/s/spip.php?article65

According to the Index, if California was as free as Kansas, the best state in the rankings, each Californian would see their annual income increase by a sum of $1,180. Not surprisingly, the weight of this ?tax? correlates with population migration patterns across the country.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/02/24/BUGUN56L9L1.DTL

Discouraged by high costs and strict regulations, just under 60 percent of California business leaders interviewed for a new study said they have policies to restrict job growth in the state or move jobs to other locations in the United States.

Yeah but the per capita income of California is $37,036 (2005) and Kansas is 32,836.
So if you increase your Kansas income by $1,180 you are at $34,016. You would still be making over $3,000 more in California than in Kansas.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104652.html
And the main thing about California is, you're not in Kansas. We have mountains, and beaches, and forests, and most of us don't freeze our butts off in the winter.

Funny that all of the small business owners I know, although they may bitch about taxes and regulations, none are planning to move. They are making record profits here in California. Tax revenues are up.
Right-wingers, religious nuts, and libertarians are all free to move out of California, don't let the door hit you in the a**.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Why does this surprise you coming from the people republic of kalifornia?
Remember the bigger your govt is, the less freedoms you have. Now they are getting into your family business and how family members volunteer their time.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Originally posted by: wirelessenabled
Originally posted by: ntdz
More idiotic policies stifling business in California.

Yup! California's policies are so idiotic that it ranks 12th in per capita income. Not bad for a state with the largest population and having a huge illegal immigrant problem.

Maybe Texas (ranked 32) and some of the Gulf Coast ought to look at some of these idiotic policies to get their economies out of the rut they have been in for generations.

What does California rank in terms of cost of living?
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
Originally posted by: marincounty
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: wirelessenabled
Originally posted by: ntdz
More idiotic policies stifling business in California.

Yup! California's policies are so idiotic that it ranks 12th in per capita income. Not bad for a state with the largest population and having a huge illegal immigrant problem.

Maybe Texas (ranked 32) and some of the Gulf Coast ought to look at some of these idiotic policies to get their economies out of the rut they have been in for generations.

Per capita income has nothing to do with what we're talking about, and illegal immigrant wages aren't counted. When you factor in the cost of living, the playing field is much more even. Taxing small businesses for BS reasons is not going to help grow the economy. Maybe you should read up about California's debt, which is higher than any other state's, by far. Read these articles you genius and get back to me:

http://capoliticalnews.com/s/spip.php?article65

According to the Index, if California was as free as Kansas, the best state in the rankings, each Californian would see their annual income increase by a sum of $1,180. Not surprisingly, the weight of this ?tax? correlates with population migration patterns across the country.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/02/24/BUGUN56L9L1.DTL

Discouraged by high costs and strict regulations, just under 60 percent of California business leaders interviewed for a new study said they have policies to restrict job growth in the state or move jobs to other locations in the United States.

Yeah but the per capita income of California is $37,036 (2005) and Kansas is 32,836.
So if you increase your Kansas income by $1,180 you are at $34,016. You would still be making over $3,000 more in California than in Kansas.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104652.html
And the main thing about California is, you're not in Kansas. We have mountains, and beaches, and forests, and most of us don't freeze our butts off in the winter.

Funny that all of the small business owners I know, although they may bitch about taxes and regulations, none are planning to move. They are making record profits here in California. Tax revenues are up.
Right-wingers, religious nuts, and libertarians are all free to move out of California, don't let the door hit you in the a**.

And then factor in the fact that you can't buy a house for less than $400,000 in California and you can get one for like $150,000 to $200,000 in Kansas. Other costs are significantly less as well, such as gas. It's 100% true that California is the most beautiful state in the country, and has the most to do. Doesn't mean the government running it isn't screwed up though. Oh, and you wanting right wingers to leave California is idiotic as many small business owners are conservative.