Overhaul of my system's cooling ability - Planning stage

RyanM

Platinum Member
Feb 12, 2001
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Okay, I've pretty much worked out all the kinks in my designs, and I think I got something solid now.

Click here to view a graphic of the fan positions

The case is an Antec KS-180. CPU is an Athlon 1800+ Throughbred B, RAM is 1024 MB in 2 sticks of Corsair PC2700 (with Thermaltake heat spreaders), and the motherboard is an Abit AT7-Max2.

As you can see, I'll be letting in roughly the same amount of air as I'm putting out, approximately 144 CFM. Then I'll have a Thermalright SLK-800 with a 92mm Panaflo 56 CFM fan attached, mounted on a Thermaltake copper shim and coated with a perfect layer of Type 44 heatsink compound.

Any thoughts? Are there any flaws that you can see in this heating scheme? Am I out of my head?

Or do you guys wanna start placing bets to see how many extra MHz I'll be able to squeeze outta this thing when I get the parts? :)

Lemme know what ya think!
 

amcdonald

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2003
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Thats gonna be REALLY loud. I couldn't stand the sunon by itself, let alone everything together.
 

RyanM

Platinum Member
Feb 12, 2001
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Well, it's relative really. I haven't the slightest what the dB level of the fans in my case are now, but I've got 2 92mm fans, one which came with the case, and another purchased alongside it (this was back in '99). These two alone are noisier than hell, plus all the other stuff, it's loud. From 25 feet away, standing 6 feet from a refridgerator, the COMPUTER sounds louder.

I have a feeling the Sunon is going to sound like a warm country breeze in comparison. ;-)
 

Politik

Member
Feb 23, 2003
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Ugh... 40mm case fans? I can see that you're bent on maximum CFM despite the noise, but do yourself a favor and take those out. If nothing else, you'll have positive pressure in your case, which many people say will help keep dust out.

In any case (pun intended! har), measure your case air temp vs. outside air temp to see if these fans are worth it.

As for MHz, I'm betting 0 extra.
 

jarsoffart

Golden Member
Jan 11, 2002
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As others have mentioned, the 40mm fans are not worth the noise. Considering you have a relatively cool running CPU (1800+ Thoroughbred) and a SLK-800, I would say all you really need is the front 120mm intake and the two PSU fans and replace the CPU fan with a slower fan. I doubt your CPU's life would be shortened by the higher temperatures. Although the difference maybe big between your configuration and mine, it's like the difference between very cool to cool. At that end of the spectrum the amount of longevity you gain for the lower temperatures is minimal compared to if it were between very hot and hot. You could even replace the PSU fan and 120mm fans with a bit quieter fans and be fine. I currently only have 3 fans (excluding Northbridge fan). I have two PSU fans and then just my CPU fans. I think they are all only around 30-35 CFM. I have a Palmino 1700+ which should put out more heat then the Thoroughbred you have. I'm getting temperatures of 53C on load, measured on my Abit KR7A-Raid that should measure and be calibrated similarly to your Abit board.

You made a really nice diagram though. It's the best I've seen.
 

Shimmishim

Elite Member
Feb 19, 2001
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i don't know THAT much about airflow and stuff... but i do know that you should use arctic silver 3 between the core and the heatsink.

:)
 

OulOat

Diamond Member
Aug 8, 2002
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The front bezel seems to be decently designed at most, thus the sunon won't be working at full capacity. Of course, what you are doing is complete overkill. I'm moving about 30 cfms through my case and my case temps are 1 and 2 C from the ambient room temp.
 

Fireman

Golden Member
May 18, 2000
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Well my .02 would be this. If your planning from scratch, put TWO 80mm blowholes on the top of the case. You'll really only need some quiet NMB or Panaflo fans in there. The ideal placement (since heat rises) will allow you use a lower flow (and quieter) fan.
Also if your comp is on a desktop, it will direct the noise upward, and away from your ears, not forward like all those little 40mm front fans.
With proper placement, you can use fewer fans (work smart not hard).
Also I would use a baybus to control all of them. Then you don't have to have them all on full speed all the time.
 

RyanM

Platinum Member
Feb 12, 2001
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Okay, wow. Lots of feedback to address. I'll attempt to reply to it all and clear up some confusion.

First things first. Some of you may not know what my case actually looks like. There's only one place with decent pictures on the web, as far as my googles have searched, and that's right here.

Obviously, this is not my computer, but it's the same case. Currently, I'm running the 92mm fans that came with the system, one in the upper rear exhaust, one in the lower front as an intake. My hard drives are mounted in the top and 3rd from top 5 1/4 bay positions, and Evercool 3-fan bay coolers are blowing over them. I had a spare bay cooler laying around, and mounted those fans over the CPU area, in the same place as the Sanyo fans in my initial diagram.

With the stock Athlon heatsink, and a 60mm 40 CFM fan mounted on it, my CPU temps (at stock clock settings) are 47 degrees C, my system around 52. This simply will not do. The failure in the current setup is not so much how much airflow I'm getting, but where.

The exhaust from the 92mm fan "feels" lower than room temperature, which, since its moving, means it's actually at room temp or slightly above it. However, the exhaust from the power supply is warm, and the exhaust from the 40mm Evercools by the CPU is even warmer.

This tells me 3 things:

1. The hard drives are on freaking ice. They are being cooled as much as could possibly be.

2. The power supply fans, despite being capable of moving 4 times as much air as the Evercools, are being restricted by the components inside the powersupply (duh), and are thus a negligible factor in the heating of the system.

3. The 40mm Evercools are doing a damn fine job of evacuating air, but if they could evacuate more air, all the better.

Now, the revision I posted above was basically taking the layout of my current fans, and improving it without much modification. With the fans I had listed, the only change I'd need to make to the case itself is drilling some holes to mount the 120mm fan where the 92mm intake fan currently is, and drilling some holes there as well to allow for better airflow. However, after reading over the feedback, and reflecting on this setup some more, I have begun to see several inadequacies in this setup.

1. The only reason the Evercools are in the bays is to cool the hard drives. Based on the exhaust from the 92mm fan, I've got that covered - Almost too well. I could keep them there, remove one of them, or remove them both. The problem is, I'm anal with my cooling, and I've had hard drives die. Sure, it was mechanically related, but the heat of a hard drive goes into how much wear and tear occurs on the parts. Every little bit helps, and if I get one more week out of a drive because I cooled its ass off, I'll be happy enough.

So, back to those baycoolers. Where they're positioned doesn't help the overall temp of the case or the CPU, that's obvious. What would be better is if I could cool the hard drives with other case fans and remove them altogether.

So theoretically, if I could construct a mounting device for them DIRECTLY behind the planned 120mm intake fan, I could definitely remove the baycoolers, and reduce noice by at the very least 20%.

2. My case uses a "straight across" method of cooling. While efficient, it's not as efficient as the "bottom to top" method. If I reposition the 92mm fan and create a blowhole, position it directly above the channel between the power supply and the 5 1/4 bays, then I would create a good deal of suction across from the lower part of my case and help the air come from the CPU/Memory area, up, and out. I could then seal off the fan hole in the upper rear of the case, and I'd be golden.

3. As I've stated, the 40mm Evercools placed by the CPU are doing a damn good job of evacuating air. However, with a blowhole setup, I will not need to move as much out. If anything, in the spirit of positive case pressure (good point Politik), I would want to use them to suck more air in.

This would mean fresh cold air would be flowing directly over the CPU, joining with the cold air being blasted in from the Sunon, meeting right around the area over the memory, and then being sucked straight out by the blowhole. This flow scheme would be leaps and bounds better than what I have now.

4. Finally, we come to the power supply. As aforementioned, it isn't doing much good for me on the exhaust side. And if I reverse the Evercools (or replace them with the Sanyos), they may even steal cold air being sucked in from there.

The best solution would be to flip the power supply upside down, and reverse the fans that are inside it. This would cool the PS with cold outside air, instead of air that was just heated up by the heatsink, giving longer life to my PS. In addition, it would blow air - Golly - Right towards the all-purpose blowhole!

So, with all that digested, here's the schematic I worked out. This time around, I added in the 5 1/4 bay area to give you an idea of its position in the scheme of things, as well as added airflow arrows.

Case airflow - Beta 1
Case airflow - Beta 2

I'm liking that alot better. The downside, unfortunately, is it will require a great deal more work. My materials list went from a portable drill to a dremel, portable drill, tin snips, sanding paper, and other miscellaneous stuff. Oh well. Good cooling is worth the hard work. ;)

Oh, and Shimmy - I can't stand Arctic Silver. Anything that stains, bleeds, and loses contact with the CPU after 3 months isn't up my alley. Type 44 is the only stuff I'll use.

Thanks again guys! And don't be afraid to post more feedback about how I'm a cooling nazi! :D
 

jarsoffart

Golden Member
Jan 11, 2002
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That case is very very large. I would put a plate of some sort between the upper portion of your case and the bottom and move all your HDD's to the bottom near the 120mm intake. The top portion wouldn't need any cooling because there are only optical drives. And remove all those darn 40mm fans.
 

RyanM

Platinum Member
Feb 12, 2001
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lol, stop knockin' the fans. They may be loud, but they're so cute the way they spin at such high RPMs!

Seriously though, think of the airflow - If i block off the top portion, how am I exhausting air? As I stated, the power supply, as is, does a lousy job of evacuating air. And even if I had the 40mm fans, working to exhaust also, it still wouldn't be enough. The ambient temperature in my house, come summer, will be 10 degrees hotter. I want my overclocked CPU to run, at full load, at the same temperature as it currently is at stock clock. I'm not going to do that by having a mere 40 to 50 CFM exhaust. I've gotta flow so much air through there nothing has a CHANCE to heat up.

Besides, like I said, if you think this theoretical design is gonna be loud, you should hear my system now. It's obnoxious. But 4-year old 92mm fans, and 3-year old Evercool bay coolers will do that. ;-)
 

jarsoffart

Golden Member
Jan 11, 2002
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Originally posted by: MachFive
lol, stop knockin' the fans. They may be loud, but they're so cute the way they spin at such high RPMs!

Seriously though, think of the airflow - If i block off the top portion, how am I exhausting air? As I stated, the power supply, as is, does a lousy job of evacuating air. And even if I had the 40mm fans, working to exhaust also, it still wouldn't be enough. The ambient temperature in my house, come summer, will be 10 degrees hotter. I want my overclocked CPU to run, at full load, at the same temperature as it currently is at stock clock. I'm not going to do that by having a mere 40 to 50 CFM exhaust. I've gotta flow so much air through there nothing has a CHANCE to heat up.

Besides, like I said, if you think this theoretical design is gonna be loud, you should hear my system now. It's obnoxious. But 4-year old 92mm fans, and 3-year old Evercool bay coolers will do that. ;-)

In the pictures at damagedgoods.com it seems that the rear exhausts are 80mm, why are you using 40mm's then? I don't understand why your slightly larger and much louder 40mm fans have less airflow than your smaller quieter 40mm fans. That doesn't seem to make sense. When you block off the top portion, it directs more of the air from the 120mm intake to where it needs to be, the CPU area. The 80mm rear fans (assuming you do replace the 40mm's with 80mm's) then exhaust that air. Even if you don't do any of the aforementioned stuff, cut off the front plastic part of the case that is severely blocking your 1200mm fan. All the 120mm has are those small little slits on the side that don't do much.
 

RyanM

Platinum Member
Feb 12, 2001
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Oh, I see where the misunderstanding is. In the first graphic, the Evercool fans - Those are THREE 40x40x25mm fans, pushing a combined total of 16 CFM. ONE of the Sanyo 40x40x28's pushes 13.4 CFM - Making it 100% more efficient than one of the Evercools.

The person on that site mounted the 80mm fans there, And though he says only 25% of the fan is blocked off, in reality, more like 33% is. And if you count the impeller, truly, only 60% of the fan's usuable area is exposed to outside air.

Not only that, if I have them doing intake work, it gets worse, because the part of the fan not over the grille will be working to recirculate existing case air, creating a lot of turbulence and poor flow.

Just give the 40mm Sanyo's a chance. ;-) I know they'll be loud compared to an 80mm fan, but if this works out half as good as I'm expecting it to, I'll be able to knock the 120mm fans down to half their voltage, and the only fans making any audible noise will be the ones in the rear. I can live with that.

As for the front bezel, that's one of the areas the dremel is gonna get a workout. I plan on cutting a nice big hole in the front of my case, creating a channel going straight to the fan, and mounting a filter there. Then I'll paint the channel the same color as the case, adding a nice recessed look to the front.