Overclocking on a Gigabyte P35C-DS3R

[Ararat]

Hi, I purchased a Gigabyte P35C-DS3R motherboard a few days ago, and much to my chagrin (amidst my excitement about overclocking), found that it doesn't have a 1:1 memory divider. I have an E6300, along with DDR2-800 Memory (Samsung). Now, with this 400MHz memory, I should have plenty of headroom to overclock my 266 MHz CPU, right? WRONG!! The stupid piece of crap (which aparently automatically adjusts the divider to suit the FSB, yeah right) tried to run my DDR2-800 at '1200' (presumably 600) MHz. That's ok, I can do it myself, right? Nope, the only option in the BIOS is a '2.5 multiplier' (doesn't include synchronous speeds, and yet it includes the oh-so-useful muliplier of 4). Is there a way around this? What if I had bought DDR2-533, overclock by default? Presumably it would run at stock by SPD, but anyone with such memory would be unable to modify these settings.

How can I get the memory to run synchronously with the CPU, so that I can overclock? I am using BIOS revision F2 (latest atm), and it seems to me that it would be SO EASY for Gigabyte to have put that option onto these boards, but instead they have shot us in the foot. A helpful poster in the motherboard forum has told me that his DS3Pro has the option for 1:1, does anyone know which of gigabytes P35 boards let me do it? Should I take it back to the shop and buy a Pro? (I would consider this a downgrade, as while I see DDR3 as something I may not use, I could never afford 2 fast gfx cards, and frankly would prefer the extra PCI slot).

The best oc I have got atm is 333MHz (2.33GHz CPU), with my RAM running at '833', and thus overclocked, I'm not sure I should push my RAM further, and would like options. A nice trick would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[swtethan]

p35c is ddr3 also right?


thats bad news, i bought a DS3P yesterday, i might have an aswer for you soon

 

[nullpointerus]

My P35-DS3R board (the non-C version) has a bunch of dividers including the 1:1 (or 2.0 multiplier, as the BIOS puts it).

Have you tried pressing CTRL+F1 (when in the BIOS's main menu) to enable the advanced options? I had no access to memory timings and certain other (essential?) things until I did this. Doesn't make any sense to me, either...

On the plus side, the board's auto-recover feature is nice--when it works.

 

[MarcVenice]

Wow I'm so confused. You have a e6300, that's 7*266. If your memory runs 1:1 with your cpu, it would run at ddr 533, I see no reason why you're mobo would try running it at 600mhz, which would be ddr 1200. I mean, it's ridiculous, tell me, what memory speed does cpu-z or whatever program report if you run everything at stock ?

Also, memory dividers aren't always on mobo's in figures like 1:1, 2:1 2:3 etc etc, my asus mobo for example can be put on 200, 266, 333, 400 etc etc.

 

[Ararat]

@swtethan, yeah the c is ddr3 also, but i don't consider that a vital feature, so if need be, i will take it back and swap for a regular p35-ds3r.

@nullpointerus yep, the dividers on mine are also called multipliers, but the problem is, they start at 2.5, the 2.0 option you have is the one i would be looking for, but it isn't in the list. I don't remember if i used the ctrl+f1, however the list of multipliers was available, so i don't see why advanced options would add an option to a list i already had access to.

@MarcVenice u said IF the memory runs at 1:1, it doesn't (that's pretty much what i'm complaining about). also, when it tried to run it at 600MHz, clearly that was during an overclock. I had set the system bus to 400MHz, which would have set my memory at the proper 400MHz if it were at 1:1, but at the multiplier of 3 (which is correct for ddr800 @ stock bus of 266), it set it to 600. And this motherboard supposedly automatically sets the multiplier to match the fsb speed.

 

[nCred]

http://www.ocworkbench.com/200...abyte/P35C-DS3R/g4.htm

This is a review of the P35C-DS3R, the picture that shows the system memory multiplier settings clearly has a 2.0 option.

 

[MarcVenice]

Now he just has to find it. The board acts ridiculous though.

 

[nullpointerus]

Originally posted by: nCred
http://www.ocworkbench.com/200...abyte/P35C-DS3R/g4.htm

This is a review of the P35C-DS3R, the picture that shows the system memory multiplier settings clearly has a 2.0 option.

LOL, I forgot the memory multipliers are completely out of order:

Auto
2.50
3.00
2.00 <-- here it is
2.40
3.33
4.0+ (eh? what's the + for?)

This list should have been sorted IMO. And the "Auto" setting makes absurd choices.

 

[Ararat]

Hi Guys, you're right, it's there. Sorry for wasting all your time with my stupidity, it was the lack of order which threw me (I was pissed at the mobo for other reasons at the time, and I guess that played a part). I saw the auto, followed by the 2.5, followed by 3, and assumed 2 wasn't there. This morning (in the 5 minutes I had b4 I had to leave for church) I booted it up, and set it at 400, and it booted into windows first time without any hassles. Have yet to stress test it yet, but I will when I get home, and I'll see how far I can push this beast. Thanks again for your help.

 

[Ararat]

That problem is solved.
New (potential) problem is temperature. At stock speed, idle temp is about 55 deg, and under load, it is 70 deg. Once overclocked to 2.8GHz (should be easy for this CPU, right?), idle temps are around 67 deg, and under load it's about 78 deg. Are these dangerously high? (If this is relevant, the system seems completely stable, and I feel the cpu has quite some headroom in it yet... though I am more than happy with 2.8GHz).
I used RMClock to measure these temperatures, however, the BIOS was telling me a different story. Once overclocked at 2.8GHz, the BIOS was reporting an idle temp of 54 degrees (Not much higher than the stock temperature).
I also opened the case and stuck my hand inside, and the air being blown out of the cpu heatsink honestly didn't feel that hot. Which is right?
One thing I should mention is that I placed this CPU in this motherboard after it had spend ~4 months in another motherboard. Thus, the thermal paste at the base of the heatsink wasn't a fresh application, there was some left on both the cpu and the heatsink. How much of a difference does this actually make? Should I take it out, clean it off, and reapply some paste?
Thanks.

 

[nullpointerus]

Obviously, your room's ambient temperature and case's airflow will a role in your CPU temperatures, but those numbers sound high regardless. I'm seeing idle temperatures around 35C and load at 50C with a room temperature around 23C and good case airflow. However, I am using a Freezer 7 Pro instead of the stock Intel HSF, which is rather inefficient. Still, I highly recommend cleaning the CPU and heatsink and reapplying thermal paste. Consider lapping *if* you want to spend the time and energy to do it right.

EDIT 1: I use Intel TAT, which I recommend, as my temperature monitoring tool.

EDIT 2: You can check the efficiency of your cooling solution by running all cores under full load (in Prime95's large FFT torture test, for example) and then stopping the test abruptly to see how quickly your CPU's temperature drops. Mine drops like 5-7C instantly...then 10-15C in a few seconds. If your temperature drops much more slowly, you have a problem.

 

[MarcVenice]

Heh DEFINATELY reapply the thermal grease dude, it will make a difference.

 

[Ararat]

Thanks guys, wow, I didn't realise how big the difference would be (I figured 1-2 degrees at most). Temps have dropped like 10-15 degrees, and that's using some cheap crap I found lying around in my drawer. The only two things I found in there were some grey stuff which resembles Arctic Silver (but isn't), and some stuff called silicon thermal compound. I wasn't sure about the silicon stuff, so I went with the silver compound.
The result? Overclocked (@2.8GHz) idle temps are around 55ish (but this is measured from in Windows, using RMClock, will dl Intel TAT tmrw), and 69-71 with both cores under max load (using AutoGK/VirtualDub, whereas previously I had been using Prime95's torture test - the second one which says max temp and power consumption - but both had previously been exceeding 80 degrees). This still seems high compared with what some ppl say (don't exceed 65 degrees), but much better than 80. My room temps aren't reaching 20degrees btw. I hope my one day of bad temps hasn't damaged my cpu?
Also, do you recommend getting some Arctic Silver or another high quality thermal compound, or is what I'm using fine? (ie, will it make a diff of more than, say, 5 degrees?)
Thanks again.

 

[nullpointerus]

Arctic Silver may make some difference, but I'd say it would be 3-5C at the most, if there's any improvement at all.

If you are still using the stock HSF, try an aftermarket one. Even the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro that I am using (for ~$32 shipped in the U.S.) solidly outperforms the stock HSF. You don't even need to remove the motherboard to install the Freezer 7 Pro.

Depending on where you shop, you could add some Arctic Silver to your shopping cart for like $7 or so.
EDIT: I just remembered: the Freezer 7 Pro comes with its own comparable paste preapplied.

How is your case airflow?
Do you use wire ties for cable management?
What case/fan configuration do you have?

Again, you can measure overall case/cooling effectiveness by getting the processor to its maximum load temp. and then stopping the stress testing software. How fast do your temperatures cool down?

 

[Ararat]

OK, so I bought some Arctic Silver 5 (is this better than ceramicque?), and applied it. It made no difference over my old thermal paste.
I am still at 72-73C under load (@2.8GHz), and about 63C idle. Even at stock speeds, it's 65-68 under load, and 58C idle. Is 72-73C a dangerous temp? Will it shorten the life of my cpu (and if so, more like 10% or more like 50%?).
My friends comp has an E6600 (non-overclocked, using stock cooler), which is 45C idle. Same cooler, same paste (and I built it too, so same builder), why is mine so hot?
Should I get a case fan? he has a few of those, and i have none, will that make a difference?
Thanks.

 

[nullpointerus]

Case fans will definitely make a difference. What model of case do you have?

 

[Ararat]

It's just a generic case I got YEARS ago. In fact, I think it is narrower than standard (ie, depth from the front face to the back, while I doubt this matters to heat, it's annoying when changing parts).
It doesn't have ANY case fans, though I am thinking of adding one (or more?). I think I may have to modify the case to allow it, but so be it. It has on the back spots for 2 fans (I think they are for 8cm fans though, not 12, but again, I think I can poke some holes with a drill.
I have to admit I am a TOTAL newbie when it comes to the thermal and ventilation aspects of a PC, hence I have to ask what must seem like totally stupid questions: How many fans should I get, and where should I put them. Should they be blowing air into, or out of the case? ATM, the only fans are the graphics card, the stock Intel HSF, and my power supply which has 3 fans in it (one of which is a HUGE one on the bottom - right above the cpu - which I believe is blowing INTO the psu). Also, it seems my options are either $5 for a generic 120mm case fan, or $10 for a Coolermaster (does brand make a difference for something that's just blowing air?).

Will a case fan drop the temp by more than 5 or 10C?

As for CPU cooling, this costs money, and I'd avoid it if case cooling suffices. However, I have found the Freezer 7 Pro that Nullpointerus spoke of (is it really sideways like that?) for $39AUD. There is also a Zalman CNPS7700-AlCu for $35 (although I believe that the Zalman is inferior as far as cooling goes.

Your choice of cooler seems very good, as it is rated at 0.17C/W compared to 0.23C/W for the stock cooler. Going mathematically, does this mean that my 73C temps should drop to 54C with the Arctic Cooling?

Thanks for putting up with my long post!

 

[Diogenes2]

Did anyone mention 1:1 is not a divider ?

( ducks, covers head )

 

[nullpointerus]

Originally posted by: Ararat
It doesn't have ANY case fans, though I am thinking of adding one (or more?). I think I may have to modify the case to allow it, but so be it. It has on the back spots for 2 fans (I think they are for 8cm fans though, not 12, but again, I think I can poke some holes with a drill.

From your description, I'd say a new case w/ 12cm fans would reduce your temperatures more than a better HSF. The HSF is just a means of exchanging heat with the ambient air in the case. If you do not have good airflow through the case, the case's heat will build up because there is nothing to exchange the case's heat with the room's ambient air. In any case, buying two 8cm fans should definitely make *some* difference--the question is how much.

I have to admit I am a TOTAL newbie when it comes to the thermal and ventilation aspects of a PC, hence I have to ask what must seem like totally stupid questions: How many fans should I get, and where should I put them.

If you go this route, please measure the holes so that you know the fans should really be 8cm. There are 9.2cm fans and fan holes, which can appear similar to the 8cm fans (but obviously do not fit). It's really irritating to order the wrong kind of fans.

Should they be blowing air into, or out of the case?

Generally, the rear fans should be for exhaust, and the front fans should be for intake.

For case fans, the label side indicates the direction towards which the air will flow. So if you are standing with a case fan in your hands, and the label side is towards you, then the air would flow towards you, too.

Putting these two things together, the labels of ALL case fans will point toward the rear of the case. There are some novel designs which are radically different (i.e. back-to-front airflow), but they are nothing you need to worry about right now.

ATM, the only fans are the graphics card, the stock Intel HSF, and my power supply which has 3 fans in it (one of which is a HUGE one on the bottom - right above the cpu - which I believe is blowing INTO the psu).

3 fans? Is the air coming out of the power supply hot or just warm?

I'm guessing you may have an older/proprietary kind of case in which the PSU did double-duty as the case fan housing. This approach is used by OEMs sometimes but is not exactly very efficient. The best desktop/tower cases have: (a) 120mm intake blowing through the front hard drive bays, and (b) 120mm exhaust blowing air out of the CPU area, and (c) the PSU has a 120mm fan exhausting only its own warm air.

Given your 3-fan PSU, I recommend asking the people in the cases & cooling fan to give you advice before you buy anything.

Also, it seems my options are either $5 for a generic 120mm case fan, or $10 for a Coolermaster (does brand make a difference for something that's just blowing air?).

Brand sometimes makes a difference, but the fan's model is more important. Some fans are made for silence and some are made for massive airflow. And then there are some cheapo fans that push little airflow but are extremely loud/annoying.

The best thing for you to do would be to get a digital camera, take a pic of your case, and create a new topic in the cases & cooling forum with a link to this old topic. Those people are generally much more knowledgeable about this sort of thing and will likely be able to supply you with links to the best cases/fans for your money.

Will a case fan drop the temp by more than 5 or 10C?

I can't give you a definite answer--only an educated guess--but you could easily answer this yourself by running your computer with the side panel off and pointing some type of fan (e.g. floor fan or desk fan?) to blow air into the case. If there's a huge difference in temperatures, then better case airflow will make a substantial difference.

As for CPU cooling, this costs money, and I'd avoid it if case cooling suffices.

I definitely agree. :thumbsup:

However, I have found the Freezer 7 Pro that Nullpointerus spoke of (is it really sideways like that?) for $39AUD. There is also a Zalman CNPS7700-AlCu for $35 (although I believe that the Zalman is inferior as far as cooling goes.

Yes, the most efficient CPU coolers face sideways. That's the path the air is naturally traveling through the case anyway, so... But some people prefer more traditional coolers for cooling the power-related components located near the CPU on the motherboard.

Your choice of cooler seems very good, as it is rated at 0.17C/W compared to 0.23C/W for the stock cooler. Going mathematically, does this mean that my 73C temps should drop to 54C with the Arctic Cooling?

When I switched from the stock HSF to the Freezer 7 Pro, I saw a drop of about 10C. The result of your upgrade depends on case airflow and the room's ambient temperature. For example, if your friend's computer is in an air-conditioned room and yours is not, then your PC will still be much warmer even with the same cooling setup (i.e. case, fans, HSF).

Bottom line: do the side panel test I mentioned earlier and post the results here or (preferrably) in a new topic at the cases & cooling forum.

Good luck!

 

[VirtualLarry]

What is the proper direction to face, when mounting the Freezer 7 Pro? I have one (unopened), that I figured I'd use on my upcoming quad-core build. (I decided to leave the stock cooler on my E4400, temps are fine @ 2.8Ghz.)

 

[firewolfsm]

Blowing (lol?) to the exhaust.

 

[nullpointerus]

The Freezer 7's fan should face towards the front of the case so that air is blown towards the back of the case.

(The fan label tip I spoke of earlier only applies to case fans, not the fans on CPU heatsinks.)

 

[Ararat]

OK, I did the side panel test, and while the temperature did drop, it was only by around 2-3C, so I don't think it's fan ventilation - and ambient temperature was about 17C, one upside of Melbourne weather - hence I haven't posted in the cases and cooling section. I think this points to a CPU fan inadequacy, so unfortunately I will have to shell out some money (after I already bought the case fans, but they were only $3 each.
I am somewhat comforted by this article http://www.pureoverclock.com/article642-3.html (that's page 3, the comment is on page 1), which suggests that the core temps i am getting from my c2d are not equivalent to the temps i am used to getting from previous cpu's, and i needn't necessarily soil myself at 74C, but perhaps i should err on the side of caution.
I think I'll end up purchasing the Arctic Cooling unit (too bad none of the cheap stores in australia carry this brand).
One final question I have is about orientation: as my PSU sucks are upwards (from right above my cpu), (and btw, I purchased this PSU seperately, so it's not an OEM thing, and nor is my case), should I thus orient the HSF to blow air upwards in the same direction as that fan (as there is no other active airflow in the case), or should I point it in the standard direction anyway?

 

[nullpointerus]

Point it up if possible; otherwise, back.

 

[Mir96TA]

I was able to clock my E4400 to 3 Gig with Temps off43c
Memory Running 1:1 Ratio at 300 Mhz with Low Cas
Here is Core Clock speed Running at Low or vairable Pwr saving mode