Overclocking client boxes before shipping - who does it?

[VirtualLarry]

Just curious. Mostly speaking of NON-BUSINESS boxes, like the type you build for friends/family/accquantances/craigslist/etc.

I just couldn't resist the urge. Built a budget gaming rig for someone with an E5200, couldn't help pushing it to at least 3Ghz (on stock voltage). Prime95 testing now, but I'm pretty sure it will be stable. Most E5200 have no problem hitting 3Ghz on stock voltage.

Highest temps with stock (half-height) heatsink are 61C and 57C, 70F ambient.

Edit: Gigabyte G31-ES2L mobo. Has a bunch of voltage adjustments, and memory ratios from 2.66, 3.33, and 4.00.

 

[WT]

Larry, what board are you using ?? I bought a 5200 as well but haven't popped it into a board yet. I have a CM Hyper TX2 tower cooler to use with it, so that's a dead giveaway I am not running it stock.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I built a rig for a friend with an E5200 M0 step, on an IP35-E. Hit 3.75Ghz no problem at 1.425v (BIOS), 1.4v (load CPU-Z). Seems to have slightly degraded though, was no longer prime95 small FFT stable 6-12 months in, had to lower to 3.6Ghz. Still rocking though.
Has a 9600GSO dual-slot EVGA card, slightly overclocked as well.

 

[WT]

Sweet, you are using the G31 GB board that I have on my Newegg wishlist !! That seems to be the best combo for an mATX board available, so I'm trying to find out what I would use the PC for if I do indeed build it.

 

[aigomorla]

Larry...

NEVER give a client an overclocked machine, unless you set warrenty information with such client before head.

Its a PAIN in the ass to promise the client that the machine will run at X mhz, even if its a simple overclock, vs telling your client it will run stock settings.

Also if you overclock the system, and your client monkeys with it, most likely you wont know if he monkeyed with it.

However if everything was left on default, and he was playing with bios, and you notice someone changed the voltage from auto to a set number, you have an excuse to say you voided your warranty.

 

[VirtualLarry]

What if I don't tell them it's overclocked?

 

[bob4432]

Larry...

NEVER give a client an overclocked machine, unless you set warrenty information with such client before head.

Its a PAIN in the ass to promise the client that the machine will run at X mhz, even if its a simple overclock, vs telling your client it will run stock settings.

Also if you overclock the system, and your client monkeys with it, most likely you wont know if he monkeyed with it.

However if everything was left on default, and he was playing with bios, and you notice someone changed the voltage from auto to a set number, you have an excuse to say you voided your warranty.

i 2nd this - i only o/c my own stuff because of the unknown variables - in the summer what will ambient temp be? will the client keep the machine clean from dust?

unless the client is doing some decent rendering, then they will not know the difference between stock and o/c'd speeds anyway and if they need more cpu, they should pay for it.

fwiw, i am still running a e2160 for 23mos @ 3.0GHz and it is still at least 12hrs stable in all prime95 and memtest tests , but again, this is my own personal machine.

 

[VirtualLarry]

This particular client box is being built because the previous box that I built, originally to the client's specs, will not play Sims 3. (Previous computer was P4 2.8 with onboard video.)

http://www.thesims3.com/game/systemreq

After reading that, I guess I don't need to overclock this rig any. I thought that the Sims was more demanding than that. I've seen it running on a Pentium D (dual-core) 2.8Ghz, with a 7600GT video card, and it didn't seem like very playable framerates to me. And that machine is way above the minimum specs. So I figured a 3Ghz C2D with an overclocked 9600GSO might be able to do it justice.

I might be able to just stick a video card into the older box though, it has a PCI-E x16 slot, but it's a Via chipset, so it's very testy when it comes to video cards. I tried a generic PCI-E 6600, but it wouldn't boot. In fact, I had to clear the CMOS just to get it to boot again with the onboard video, that's how incompatible it was.

The other PCI-E video card I have handy is a 128MB X1300 Pro, which, if it boots, would probably work. Then I could OC this new rig to the max, and try to sell it on CL as a decent gaming rig.

 

[Tristor]

I overclock, lap CPUs, lap heatsinks, do case mods, and all sorts of other custom work for my clients. Rule #1 is to establish what is and isn't covered under any sort of service you contractually obligate yourself to. I make it clear up front that any number of these activities void the manufacturers warranty and depending on specific circumstances may greatly reduce the overall lifespan of the system.

As long as you are up front with your clients, and get agreement IN WRITING, you are good to go. Don't promise any specific overclocks unless you know you can meet it or be prepared with multiple CPUs to guarantee you get one that's cherry.

 

[Idontcare]

What if I don't tell them it's overclocked?

Isn't there a question of ethics involved when you wander down that path?

 

[ShawnD1]

What if I don't tell them it's overclocked?

That would hurt your reputation. You're selling a system with decreased stability and it looks like the computer is crashing for no reason at all. Conclusion: computers built by this guy suck because they crash all the time.

If you were a hard core business man (and a douchebag) you would underclock the system so it's more stable. Yeah it's slow as balls but look how stable it is! Best computer ever!


Article related to this thread:
http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2005/04/12/407562.aspx

Since the failure rate for this particular error was comparatively high (certainly higher than the one or two I was getting for the failures I was looking at), he requested that the next ten people to encounter this error be given the opportunity to leave their email address and telephone number so that he could call them and ask follow-up questions. Some time later, he got word that ten people took him up on this offer, and he sent each of them e-mail asking them various questions about their hardware configurations, including whether they were overclocking. [- Continuing from above aside: See? Obviously overclocking was considered as a possibility.]

Five people responded saying, "Oh, yes, I'm overclocking. Is that a problem?"

The other half said, "What's overclocking?" He called them and walked them through some configuration information and was able to conclude that they were indeed all overclocked. But these people were not overclocking on purpose. The computer was already overclocked when they bought it. These "stealth overclocked" computers came from small, independent "Bob's Computer Store"-type shops, not from one of the major computer manufacturers or retailers.

 

[DominionSeraph]

Agree with Bob4432 -- clients should pay for their performance. There's really no upside to you to overclocking. You are saving them money only to increase your own headaches.

 

[Zap]

Agree with Bob4432 -- clients should pay for their performance. There's really no upside to you to overclocking. You are saving them money only to increase your own headaches.

This. If the client wants something faster, they can pay for something faster. Simple.

The only computers that I've built and overclocked for other people have been local gamers I know who request it. Sometimes they don't even know why they want it, except that their buddy has it. For them I'll just do a really nominal OC and call it a day. 5%, 10%, whatever, it is overclocked and they can now brag about it. ^_^

 

[BushLin]

The PCs I give to my Dad to use nearly always use old parts and I give them a safe overclock and he get's decent performance, but always do OCCT and Prime 95 for 24 hours and check temps relative to ambient...The Athlon XP-m 2500+ (default clock 1.8Ghz) I used at 2.6Ghz on water now runs at 2.2Ghz using lowest available volts on air.

If you can make it super stable at low temps I don't see much of a danger, however if it's a paying customer they need to know what they're getting. If you can stick to default voltage (or lower) with low temps then I'd say you're doing them a favor. If you can't be sure of stability on a hot summer day/during long heavy loads then don't do it.

 

[ShawnD1]

The PCs I give to my Dad to use nearly always use old parts and I give them a safe overclock and he get's decent performance, but always do OCCT and Prime 95 for 24 hours and check temps relative to ambient..

You should do this with stock speeds as well. One of my computers is not prime-stable at stock speeds, so I had to underclock the ram just for the computer to run properly. It's not an old computer.

 

[21stHermit]

The only computers that I've built and overclocked for other people have been local gamers I know who request it. Sometimes they don't even know why they want it, except that their buddy has it. For them I'll just do a really nominal OC and call it a day. 5%, 10%, whatever, it is overclocked and they can now brag about it. ^_^

I think this is the essence of most overclocking!

The only application, a text to binary compiler, that I regularly run that benifited from OCing was modified such that stripping out the text code now takes longer than the compile. How the application author made it compile 10X faster is a mystery to me.

My puny Atom 330 can just about do it all. Hence I'm now on a low power quest.

 

[Idontcare]

I think this is the essence of most overclocking!

I don't know how one would even go about collecting statistics representing the entire range of the distribution of overclockers but it is a poll/study that I would actually pay money to read and digest (if I were convinced it had been conducted properly of course).

What do people do with their overclocked rigs? Or a different question might be what do they do that could not have been done with their rigs clocked at stock?

I know my usage patterns justify overclocking but I also have a gut feeling that my usage patterns are very much in the minority compared to the rest of the distribution of reasons/motivations for overclocking.

As a hobby/past-time I totally get the intrigue and interest people have to tinker with their computers. To explore is to be human. And even the folks who buy souped-up rigs, I get that. Plenty of lambo owners out there who couldn't change the oil if their life depended on it. No problem there.

But what do people do with their rigs once they are overclocked? And are they doing anything that actually takes advantage of the higher clockspeed? (I'd venture to estimate 5% can say yes to that)

 

[BushLin]

I think you have a fair point "Idontcare", for how things are currently. My e8200 stays at stock until I have a rare video transcode to do and see a benefit in going from 2.66Ghz (8x333) to 4Ghz (7.5x533), even for games at 1920x1080 with full detail I find stock CPU speed more than adequate.

On older systems it can speed up things like booting and browsing but most modern systems are waiting for the disks alot of the time.

 

[jvroig]

And are they doing anything that actually takes advantage of the higher clockspeed? (I'd venture to estimate 5% can say yes to that)

Shaving database tasks a few seconds, compilation time also goes down a few seconds, report generation with colorful 2D/3D charts and graphs also gets a few seconds faster? Using GIMP / Photoshop also becomes slightly faster, I hope that counts.

I tried being conservative with the estimates. But all those things add up, especially in either development, testing, QA, or QC phases. Shaving 5 seconds from a run that would have taken 40 - 50 seconds can mean a lot when that particular run has to be repeated several times (anywhere from 10 to who knows how much more) during test cycles or even just plain old boring development.

Anyway, boring dev stuff aside, isn't the answer to your question almost always yes? I thought it was mostly gamers who overclock their rigs, hence the higher clockspeed is not wasted? Although, now that I think about it, that depends on the CPU in question and the game being played.

 

[jvroig]

On older systems it can speed up things like booting and browsing but most modern systems are waiting for the disks alot of the time.

I have to agree, seeing as to how many reviewers and users (through article comments and forum posts) swear by their new SSD.

 

[elconejito]

Just curious. Mostly speaking of NON-BUSINESS boxes, like the type you build for friends/family/accquantances/craigslist/etc.

For me, it always depends on the "who" it is for.

I've only ever overclocked one machine for a business and that was a very mild OC (stock voltage, temps low) for a photo/video editing rig. For them, it was all about saving the $$$ for a faster chip. I always stress test the rig way more than I do my own, so I'm not worried about instability on their end.

All other business comps I've built have been stock speed, and stress tested.

For friends/family, it also depends. My brother is fairly savvy, his was overclocked (actually I guided him thru it via IM). My parents, stock. My god-daughter, stock. My best friend, OC'd. A friend/former co-worker OC'd****. Those I overclock for are people I know can google and will occasionally dust the machine. Those that can't/won't do that sort of maintenance get stock, all the way.

****When I told him it was time to upgrade cuz the Q9550 was onsale at microcenter, he said "Hell no. This is the FASTEST machine I have EVER had in my LIFE". e8400 running at 3.8Ghz or thereabouts.

 

[aigomorla]

if its someone who paid me real money for a working machine , i will never overclock it.

I will prime test it on stock for at least 24 hours, b4 i send it to the client.
I dont build machines for people anymore but that was my policy.

If its for a friend, i offer overclocking lessons, but i dont overclock it.
Because in the middle of something, the system will die.
All OC machine's die for some reason after a year or so of use.
(sometimes its just a hickup, but no machine (unless enterprise) can be left on for 1 yr straight and not have it reboot.)

So, your friend better DAYAM know where the cmos reset it, and how to reset the system, otherwise your phone will explode every 10 min with a 4 letter bad word followed by HELP.

So use your judgement. If you think your service ends the moment the client turns the machine on, your sadly wrong.
They will keep coming to you, but i guess that's what known as business practice.

 

[deimos3428]

But what do people do with their rigs once they are overclocked?

I can't speak for everyone, but I generally curse and reboot the machine.

 

[ShawnD1]

What do people do with their overclocked rigs? Or a different question might be what do they do that could not have been done with their rigs clocked at stock?

You'd be surprised how CPU limited a modern system can be. Yesterday I went into add/remove Windows components and the process of installing those additional components had one of my CPU cores pinned. If my CPU was overclocked by 30%, maybe that task of installing stuff would finish 30% faster.

In my older laptop, the CPU is the slowest component in the system. When it boots up, the hard drive is grinding away but the CPU is at 100% the whole time. The CPU goes back down to nothing when it's fully booted.

 

[ZipSpeed]

What do people do with their overclocked rigs? Or a different question might be what do they do that could not have been done with their rigs clocked at stock?

For myself, whether my Q9550 is at stock or 3.4 GHz probably won't matter for the majority of the applications I use. The reason I overclock is the free performance I can get and that in itself is quite tantalizing. I'm not a serious overclocker though so I kept the CPU clock increase relatively modest (running at stock VID) and the NB, SB and RAM at the lowest voltages possible.