Over the ear audiophile-light headphones for $300?

fuzzybabybunny

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I've always worn cheapo IEM headphones like the JVC Marshmallows and I like them for most of my mobile music listening. But sometimes I just want to sit back and have some luxurious listening.

I've heard extremely good speaker sets before, and the difference to me is almost orgasmic.

I want a good over the ear headphone, as good as I can get for $300 or so. Accurate, crisp, huge range, etc. Something I can keep and be happy with forever. Driven through my laptop headphone jack. I want one where the main wire can be disconnected. In my experience, it is always the wire that ends up breaking somewhere, making headphones useless.

Maybe something like this?

Bowers & Wilkins P5 Mobile HiFi Stereo Headphones

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...cm_cr_asin_lnk

PSB M4U 2 Active Noise-Cancelling - I like these because they have a built-in amplifier.

http://www.amazon.com/PSB-M4U-Noise-.../dp/B007TTD7VO

V-MODA Crossfade M-100

http://www.amazon.com/V-MODA-Crossfa.../dp/B00A39PPDK

I also went to Fry's and tried these - they have a sort of audiophile-feel to them, but something was still missing. I'm also not sure if it was lacking due to the fact that it was at Fry's and probably had been abused or something.

Munitio PRO40

http://www.amazon.com/Munitio-PRO40-...pr_product_top
 
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hans030390

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I know that many were disappointed by the M-100.

You should also consider the Sennheiser Momentum. I have heard very good things about them, and I imagine they'd be better all-rounders than the headphones you listed.

The built-in amp means nothing and should not sway your purchasing decision. If anything, I'd recommend staying away from headphones with such integrated electronics (unless you are specifically needing sound cancellation in that form). Generally built-in amps and noise cancellation make for a worse frequency response (in measurements I've seen for such headphones), but if you need it, you need it.
 

SithSolo1

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The laptop jack is not gonna have enough power to really drive decent headphones. I'd recommend aiming more in the $180-220 range for cans and spend the rest on an external dac/amp combo.

The FiiO E10 and E11 are two good budget options.
E10($80ish) for amp and dac combo, E11($60ish) if you just want the amp.

As far as cans take a look at the Sennheiser HD 518 and HD 598 models.
 
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fuzzybabybunny

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Have you guys looked into the PSB M4U 2?

It gets amazing reviews.
 

Chapbass

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I'm assuming you know this, but you know theres excellent sounding IEM's at that range too, right? I'm not trying to be insulting, just making sure you know that if you like the IEM style you can keep that and get something decent :)
 

fuzzybabybunny

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I'm assuming you know this, but you know theres excellent sounding IEM's at that range too, right? I'm not trying to be insulting, just making sure you know that if you like the IEM style you can keep that and get something decent :)

I thought IEMs couldn't have that "sitting in the middle of an open room listening to a $10,000 set of speakers" feel?
 

Gintaras

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I thought IEMs couldn't have that "sitting in the middle of an open room listening to a $10,000 set of speakers" feel?

I bought HiFiMan RE-262 that does sound like a few thousand $$$ speakers...

Dunno, what to get next, to get "better" sound...

OP mentioned Bowers & Wilkins P5, I listened to those @ New York Audio Show...
$299 - simply not worth...good thing I didn't buy these

I dunno what to try next yet, I'm simply satisfied with what I have now - RE-262.
And 3 players: HiFiMan 601, HifiMan 802 and Astell & Kern AK-100....
 
Mar 11, 2004
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My first thought was the Sennheiser Momentum.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/innerfidelitys-wall-fame is a good resource. It might help if you have an idea of what sound signature you like.

Golden Ears .net (not sure the exact address) is decent too as they have more Audio-Technica models than Tyll does (I think they're located in Asia maybe, so that's one reason). The ATH-ESW9 might be worth checking out although it is supra aural and doesn't have a removable cable (and the cable is a bit flimsy for a portable).

Head-Fi is ok, but you'll have to sort through a billion pages, then you have to consider the people posting (there's a ton of paid posters there, that's not necessarily all bad, but you have to know what their frame of reference is, as some hate IEMs, some hate closed, some hate this or that, and so on), and its just frankly not that much worth the hassle in my honest opinion. Only thing I'd recommend them for is the FS/T section where you might be able to nab some interesting deals, although last several times I've checked it seems like people are asking for nearly new if not new prices for used stuff.

I thought IEMs couldn't have that "sitting in the middle of an open room listening to a $10,000 set of speakers" feel?

You're not going to get that with headphones either, sorry (well with a really good setup with one of the top tier headphones you will but you'll end up spending around that much to get there). They might give a better headstage than IEMs, but its still limited on most. Of course other qualities of the presentation more than make up for it in my opinion.

Not saying you won't enjoy them like you're wanting, but there's give and take. I personally prefer headphone presentation over most speakers, some people can't stand headphones at all (although a lot of them change their tune after listening to quality headphones even if they do still prefer speakers).

Shame more don't do headphone focused recordings as that'd help a lot with the drawbacks.
 
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Mar 11, 2004
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I bought HiFiMan RE-262 that does sound like a few thousand $$$ speakers...

Dunno, what to get next, to get "better" sound...

OP mentioned Bowers & Wilkins P5, I listened to those @ New York Audio Show...
$299 - simply not worth...good thing I didn't buy these

I dunno what to try next yet, I'm simply satisfied with what I have now - RE-262.
And 3 players: HiFiMan 601, HifiMan 802 and Astell & Kern AK-100....

Custom IEMs, or possibly one of the new high tier universals or a full home setup. Even then the sound signature might be the biggest issue.
 
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hans030390

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Have you guys looked into the PSB M4U 2?

It gets amazing reviews.

Have you looked into most headphone reviews? For every headphone, no matter how bad or how bad of a deal, you can usually find a sizeable group of people that rave about it. Very few people actually recognize objectively good sound, though most like to think otherwise. (It's OK if your tastes are not objectively "good" so long as you recognize this.)

Not saying that particular headphone is bad, as I haven't heard it, nor does anything about it interest me enough to look further into it. But just keep the above point in mind when researching headphones.

Be careful about Head-Fi. Most people on there are a tad off and know relatively little about audio. It's basically hype city over there for any headphone you can find. Innerfidelity is a good source of reviews, and he has tons of measurements (frequency response, distortion, etc.) on there. Learning how to read his measurements is another story. Golden Ears also has measurements, but I've heard some other experts that do their own measurements claim GE's techniques aren't quite right. I still think there's some valuable information you can get from them, but I use it more as a light supplement to other measurements (keep in mind that measurements can't be directly cross-compared with different sources due to different measurement rigs and techniques).

Once you've been into the audio, especially headphone, hobby for a few years, you'll quickly pick up that at least 90% of the people discussing it don't really know what they're talking about (even more true when it comes down to reviews). Be VERY skeptical...yes, this includes being skeptical of anything I've said as well.

Also, it's BS that your laptop jack can't power decent headphones. Well, unless your laptop is junk or has a junk HPO jack. Yes, a lot of higher-end headphones almost require a good DAC and amp to reach their full potential. I, at least, have been giving you advice and a recommendation around the fact that you do not have such gear. There is a much larger variety of headphone to pick from around the $300 price point if you have the dedicated gear to support it. But you can find headphones for $300 or less that still reach most of their potential on lower end gear.
 
Sep 29, 2004
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Why do people never ask the OP what kind of music they listen to? Instead people are eager to prove that they know something about headphones.

Recomending the same headphones for orchestral music and rap is idiotic.

Spending $300? I recomend you join and ask here instead:
http://www.head-fi.org/
 
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fuzzybabybunny

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Well, I got the cheapo MonoPrice 108320 after I read the IEM roundup on HeadFi:

http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-1083.../dp/B007VEQ2UU

Compared to my JVC Marshmallows, the sound is AMAZING. The highs and mids are so so clear. But the big downside:

There is no bass because the fit isn't right. If I press the headphones into my ears, the bass is amazing, but as soon as I release pressure the bass disappears.

The problem is that I'm already using the foam ear pieces that come with the JVC Marshmallow. The stock silicone ones I didn't even try.

Considering that I'm already using a set of foam earpieces, what are my options for getting a tighter seal? It's SO close to being an amazing IEM.
 

hans030390

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Why do people never ask the OP what kind of music they listen to? Instead people are eager to prove that they know something about headphones.

Recomending the same headphones for orchestral music and rap is idiotic.

Spending $300? I recomend you join and ask here instead:
http://www.head-fi.org/

You should buy based on your sound signature preferences, not the music you listen to (though the music you listen to can influence your SS preferences). I find going for gear that trends neutral-ish to be best, as most everything sounds at its best when you listen to it as it was meant to be presented.
 

richaron

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FBB: Yeah seems to be the tips. I have no idea of the quality or different ones, I've avoided IEMs so far, but I assume they take a while to mould to your brain? And therefore can also be miss-moulded? For the price I guess you can try some others.

Or... To compliment your new IEMs you could get some over ear Sennheiser Momentums as mentioned above (not the on-ear version). After looking for portables at your original price that's what I chose, and they perform swimmingly. Just dandy.
 

fuzzybabybunny

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Well, I no longer need or want expensive headphones.

The Monoprice ones are amazing. I went and bought a sampler pack of eartips (Monster SuperTips) for $20 and the largest foam tips work perfectly for sealing in everything and giving an incredibly full yet crisp sound. The sound isolation is also unmatched.

The old JVC Marshmallows simply don't stand a chance in the sound department. Night and day. The difference is just stupid.

Unfortunately, the microphonics on the Monoprice cables are the worst I've ever experienced. I'm thankful I don't exercise with these things or else it would be misery. The lack of a microphone is also a bummer.

These things have amazing highs. To the point where I'm concerned that the highs are too crisp and pronounced at times, leading to lots of ear fatigue.
 

hans030390

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Good. Keep it that way. One less hobby to drain your bank account. ;)

However..."These things have amazing highs. To the point where I'm concerned that the highs are too crisp and pronounced at times, leading to lots of ear fatigue."

Ah, yes. I used to be like that. Then that treble started to become more noticeable. Then it started to get annoying. Then my ears started to hurt from it. Now it is becoming easier and easier for me to detect elevated, uneven (peaks, mostly), and "ringing" treble (resonating, especially in thin frequency bands). This happened over a few years as I sampled many headphones and continued to research the subject.

It is my experience that one generally has to spend a good chunk of money to get a really balanced sound with treble that isn't too uneven or harsh on the ears. You can usually get smooth treble at the expense of the rest of the sound spectrum, but it's much harder to find headphones that are objectively great across the entire spectrum. Or, rather, it's more expensive, and the products aren't too numerous in the sea of audio gear.
 

Whirlwind

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Nov 4, 2006
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Good. Keep it that way. One less hobby to drain your bank account. ;)

However..."These things have amazing highs. To the point where I'm concerned that the highs are too crisp and pronounced at times, leading to lots of ear fatigue."

Ah, yes. I used to be like that. Then that treble started to become more noticeable. Then it started to get annoying. Then my ears started to hurt from it. Now it is becoming easier and easier for me to detect elevated, uneven (peaks, mostly), and "ringing" treble (resonating, especially in thin frequency bands). This happened over a few years as I sampled many headphones and continued to research the subject.

It is my experience that one generally has to spend a good chunk of money to get a really balanced sound with treble that isn't too uneven or harsh on the ears. You can usually get smooth treble at the expense of the rest of the sound spectrum, but it's much harder to find headphones that are objectively great across the entire spectrum. Or, rather, it's more expensive, and the products aren't too numerous in the sea of audio gear.

Grab you a tube amp for it....or just EQ the treble
 

fuzzybabybunny

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Grab you a tube amp for it....or just EQ the treble

Just a general question not concerning the treble - would an amp really help out the overall sound? I thought that IEMs are super easy to drive as it is....

I thought larger headphones benefited most from amps since things like phones don't have enough power to drive them optimally.
 

richaron

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All amps change the "sound signature", or "color" the sound. In general solid state amps are faster & brighter (more responsive & higher frequency). Tube amps are slower & warmer (less responsive & lower frequency), so they are often combined with equipment considered naturally bright; hence the suggestion.

Larger more traditional headphones are much higher impedance for a number of reasons & are harder to drive properly, so yes an amp can make a big difference.
 

Chapbass

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Just a general question not concerning the treble - would an amp really help out the overall sound? I thought that IEMs are super easy to drive as it is....

I thought larger headphones benefited most from amps since things like phones don't have enough power to drive them optimally.

All depends on the headphones. For example, the Etymotic ER-4P is designed to be run without an amp, but the 4S is designed to be run with an amp (the impedance is different).

I'm not positive about the monoprice ones
 

fuzzybabybunny

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Ok, but I'm guessing that since the Monoprices already sound so good that I don't need an amp? I mean, if all an amp does is change the sound signature and I happen to be happy with the current sound signature, there's no reason to pay extra and have an extra piece of equipment around, right?
 

richaron

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Ok, but I'm guessing that since the Monoprices already sound so good that I don't need an amp? I mean, if all an amp does is change the sound signature and I happen to be happy with the current sound signature, there's no reason to pay extra and have an extra piece of equipment around, right?

That's not all an amp does, it's the primary reason a tube amp was suggested earlier.

Yes, an amp could still give improvements. Even if the headphones go super loud, your dynamic range and frequency response curves might not be 100% what the headphones can reproduce. Having more headroom with the power can help sound because every speaker/headphone/iem has different resonances & impedance curves/spikes as frequency changes. Another plus for an amp is that they are often designed to have a lower output impedance which effects the damping factor (a signal response doobie); though I assume with the growing trend of portable headphones this is more often taken into account with design.

That being said, it would be insane to buy an amp for $10-20 headphones. Most of the time amps are a placebo even for headphones which are many times that price.
 
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