Over 80 corporate CEO's call for tax increases & spending cuts

[actuarial]

The Laffer Curve argues the proposition that changes in the rates by themselves can affect govt revenues. This is different from other tax arguments, e.g., reduced rates increase demand because people have more after-tax dollars to spend.

Fern

I agree with the proposition, but disagree that it's different from other tax arguments. Yes, it's talking about changes in the rates themselves affecting revenues. But the reason the curve isn't linear is due to the assumption (and at least at the extremes the correct one IMO) that changes in the tax rate will affect the economy and therefore the tax base. From your link:

The "economic effect" assumes that the tax rate will have an impact on the tax base itself. At the extreme of a 100% tax rate, the government theoretically collects zero revenue because taxpayers change their behavior in response to the tax rate: either they have no incentive to work or they find a way to avoid paying taxes. Thus, the "economic effect" of a 100% tax rate is to decrease the tax base to zero.

Reduced rates increasing demand sounds like an an 'economic effect' to me.

Personally, I agree with the principle in general, but disagree on the curve's shape. I imagine it's much more like a linear graph with a slightly negative second derivative, but then precipitously drops at very high rates.

 

[Jhhnn]

Spending cuts never seem to materialize, unless by cuts you mean "smaller increases than were planned". Spending needs to be really cut before there is any discussion of raising taxes.

Too bad Repubs didn't think that way before cutting taxes, huh?

They're always willing to cut taxes, revenues & deficits be damned when they're running things.

When they're out of power, deficits are the devil incarnate, somehow... and their answer is always to cut spending, even in the face of the greatest financial contraction since the Great Depression...

They apparently think we can vanquish unemployment & boost demand by laying off govt workers & contractors... along with workers in companies that supply them with everything from asswipe to computers... that all we need is lower taxes on Job Creators for them to bust out with some jobs...

We've had the lowest taxes on the wealthy during the post WW2 period for a decade, so where are the jobs, the ones Mitt & friends haven't offshored to China? Where are they other than the same place as mythical Iraqi WMD's?

 

[Jhhnn]

The Laffer curve isn't serious economics- it's a construct in support of supply side economics. First, adopt an ideology, then concoct theoretical underpinnings for it, based on the assumption that top marginal rates are always on the wrong side of the curve.

Which is bullshit. The Laffer curve has never been demonstrated in real life- just the opposite, in fact-

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...be-70-percent/2011/08/25/gIQAHgM1lN_blog.html

Cue great raving & denial...

 

[MarkLuvsCS]

Seems ~40% is pretty darn close to the ~80% mark. Considering double the % only nets ~10% GDP growth. Would be interesting to see time factored in because that only tells half the story IMO.

 

[dmcowen674]

Over 80 corporate CEO's call for tax increases & spending cuts

Corporations even know it is best for the US. We need both, how long will the republicans keep arguing against it? Even when big corporations agree it is needed. The favorite line I see from the republicans on this board is usually about how it would stunt businesses... yet businesses themselves are saying it is needed.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203937004578076253372633058.html

They said this is rare for so many Rich Republican CEO's to come together like this and agree with Liberals.

They are still the evil 1%ers but at least they are recognizing and admitting they are the culprits unlike the 1%ers in here and the wanna bees.

 

[shira]

Since increasing income taxes for those in the highest corporate strata will be largely unaffected, why not? Aren't these also the same people who embrace outsourcing? Are they advocating higher business taxes?

It's another case of fixing the wrong problem with the wrong tool.

INVOKE POLICIES TO BRING BACK LONG TERM, STABLE, AND WELL PAYING JOBS AND INDUSTRY TO THE US

If it could have the text dancing and singing I would because the idea that taxing a group is going to fix things isn't going to work. Cutting the budget while people are losing ground financially isn't going to happen.

I've mentioned ways this might be done so it's not like there aren't any ideas other than conventional wisdom which is useless at best.

America, the unimaginative.

Your red text is specifying the desired effect, not what the specific needed policies are.

 

[Juror No. 8]

LOL. If a corporation says it, it must be true!

 

[the DRIZZLE]

If you read the full article you will see that they are supporting something similar to Simpson Bowles which is 3:1 spending cuts to tax increases. Despite the Republican pledge not to increase taxes, I would say that is much closer to the Republican position than the Democrats.

Furthermore, they do not support raising the marginal rates, but rather a comprehensive reform of the tax code which is also the much closer to the Republican position. My position on these issues is essentially the same as the CEO's which is why I won't be voting for any Democrats this year.

 

[bfdd]

You're more than welcome to quit whining about it and move to one of those low tax areas of the world.

I am already planning on moving, most likely to a freer lower income area of the USA. If the only way to avoid the tax man is to make almost no money, I will take less. Though I see no reason tonoeave my land of birth simply because you and everyone else views me as some sort of tax slave who owes the rest of you and your government money. I don't you, don't owe anyone either. Just allowing yourselves to be stolen from so you think it's OK t steal from others. I'm either moving to New Mexico or "m moving to the Republic of Lakotah and denouncing my US citizenship. I refuse to be a slave simply for being born and I refuse to subjugate myself to all of you wannabe slave owners.

Btw the "hick trash comment" was fantastic. Lol

 

[lotus503]

I am already planning on moving, most likely to a freer lower income area of the USA. If the only way to avoid the tax man is to make almost no money, I will take less. Though I see no reason tonoeave my land of birth simply because you and everyone else views me as some sort of tax slave who owes the rest of you and your government money. I don't you, don't owe anyone either. Just allowing yourselves to be stolen from so you think it's OK t steal from others. I'm either moving to New Mexico or "m moving to the Republic of Lakotah and denouncing my US citizenship. I refuse to be a slave simply for being born and I refuse to subjugate myself to all of you wannabe slave owners.

Btw the "hick trash comment" was fantastic. Lol

That's cool, just never use anything provided by that tax money.

Make some wings and fly roads are paid for with taxes so don't use them.

 

[bfdd]

That's cool, just never use anything provided by that tax money.

Make some wings and fly roads are paid for with taxes so don't use them.

vehicle registration fees and gasoline tax. I willingly participate in that market. No one should be forced to pay for roads they don't use. Sure there's the stupid argument that they still benefit so they have to pay, but fuck that. They don't want it or use it themselves and those others use it to make money off those who don't the whole thing of being forced to pay for shit at gun point is no different than a thief holding a knife to your throat for your wallet. You, like I said, are OK wth it because you believe you benefit from it. Oh the great scam.

 

[Engineer]

Btw the "hick trash comment" was fantastic. Lol

I didn't make a hick trash comment.

 

[bfdd]

I didn't make a hick trash comment.

I know you didn't, I added that in an edit after. Sorry for the confusion, I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth.

 

[Gunslinger08]

As I've posted several times, this is exactly what needs to happen. We can't depend on GDP growth anymore to continually increase revenues with the same tax rates. That means you need to balance the budget through spending cuts and/or tax increases. With a deficit that is over 50% of actual revenue, you're never going to get enough politicians to fall on the sword by just increasing taxes or cutting spending. That means you need a balance. Unfortunately, it seems like you pretty much can't do ANY of either. Want to cut spending? Get shit on by industries that will lose jobs (because logically, spending cuts = job cuts). Want to raise taxes? Get shit on by the demographic you raise taxes on and most fiscal conservatives as well. I don't think the problem is going to be solved until we have no other choice, which is never the best time to fix things.

 

[ElFenix]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...be-70-percent/2011/08/25/gIQAHgM1lN_blog.html

Cue great raving & denial...

marginal rates in a vacuum with no explanation or understanding of what those marginal rates apply to ftw!

 

[Engineer]

As I've posted several times, this is exactly what needs to happen. We can't depend on GDP growth anymore to continually increase revenues with the same tax rates. That means you need to balance the budget through spending cuts and/or tax increases. With a deficit that is over 50% of actual revenue, you're never going to get enough politicians to fall on the sword by just increasing taxes or cutting spending. That means you need a balance. Unfortunately, it seems like you pretty much can't do ANY of either. Want to cut spending? Get shit on by industries that will lose jobs (because logically, spending cuts = job cuts). Want to raise taxes? Get shit on by the demographic you raise taxes on and most fiscal conservatives as well. I don't think the problem is going to be solved until we have no other choice, which is never the best time to fix things.

Agree.

 

[bfdd]

Ask less and expect less from your Government, do some learning and fix your view on what our FEderal Government is supposed to be in terms of roles and we'll be able to pull it back by just not supporting tghe nonsense it is now. If you're looking for a candidate that will submit a balanced budget, Gary Johnson has that in his goals. Reps and Dems would hqve to come together and show their true colors if we could get ANY "Third" party candidate in. That they re opposite sides of tghe same coin, just assholish authoritarians who believe they know how to best run your life and believe their vision of the future is the true vision. They aren't divine, they aren't super human, they are idiots just like you and I.