Outsourcing the Picket Line

[CADsortaGUY]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...R2007072302011_pf.html

Although their placards identify the picketers as being with the Mid-Atlantic Regional Council of Carpenters, they are not union members.

...paid $1 above minimum wage and receive no benefits...

Two thoughts on this.

1) It's good to see these people who are down on their luck doing something to "earn" some money. However, IMO if they have enough motivation to stand outside all day "picketing" for an organization they can't/don't belong to, then why don't they use that motivation to get a real job that will probably pay more than the $1 over minimum wage?

2) Unions paying non-union day laborers to picket companies that use non-union employees? Uhhh - say what? Doesn't this go against what they are supposedly fighting for? Do the members of the union realize how much of their dues money is going to people their union does not even represent?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...R2007072302011_pf.html

Although their placards identify the picketers as being with the Mid-Atlantic Regional Council of Carpenters, they are not union members.

...paid $1 above minimum wage and receive no benefits...

Two thoughts on this.

1) It's good to see these people who are down on their luck doing something to "earn" some money. However, IMO if they have enough motivation to stand outside all day "picketing" for an organization they can't/don't belong to, then why don't they use that motivation to get a real job that will probably pay more than the $1 over minimum wage?

2) Unions paying non-union day laborers to picket companies that use non-union employees? Uhhh - say what? Doesn't this go against what they are supposedly fighting for? Do the members of the union realize how much of their dues money is going to people their union does not even represent?

They are paid a dollar over minimum wage and no benefits so they will unionize.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...R2007072302011_pf.html

Although their placards identify the picketers as being with the Mid-Atlantic Regional Council of Carpenters, they are not union members.

...paid $1 above minimum wage and receive no benefits...

Two thoughts on this.

1) It's good to see these people who are down on their luck doing something to "earn" some money. However, IMO if they have enough motivation to stand outside all day "picketing" for an organization they can't/don't belong to, then why don't they use that motivation to get a real job that will probably pay more than the $1 over minimum wage?

2) Unions paying non-union day laborers to picket companies that use non-union employees? Uhhh - say what? Doesn't this go against what they are supposedly fighting for? Do the members of the union realize how much of their dues money is going to people their union does not even represent?

They are paid a dollar over minimum wage and no benefits so they will unionize.

:laugh: Perfect :thumbsup:

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...R2007072302011_pf.html

Although their placards identify the picketers as being with the Mid-Atlantic Regional Council of Carpenters, they are not union members.

...paid $1 above minimum wage and receive no benefits...

Two thoughts on this.

1) It's good to see these people who are down on their luck doing something to "earn" some money. However, IMO if they have enough motivation to stand outside all day "picketing" for an organization they can't/don't belong to, then why don't they use that motivation to get a real job that will probably pay more than the $1 over minimum wage?

2) Unions paying non-union day laborers to picket companies that use non-union employees? Uhhh - say what? Doesn't this go against what they are supposedly fighting for? Do the members of the union realize how much of their dues money is going to people their union does not even represent?

They are paid a dollar over minimum wage and no benefits so they will unionize.

You think the Carpenter's union would still hire them if they tried to unionize? The picketer's union?

 

[EagleKeeper]

There are some stores here in Las Vegas that have non-union picketers.

The same payscale happens.

Union people do not seem to want to walk the streets to picket a non-union place

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...R2007072302011_pf.html

Although their placards identify the picketers as being with the Mid-Atlantic Regional Council of Carpenters, they are not union members.

...paid $1 above minimum wage and receive no benefits...

Two thoughts on this.

1) It's good to see these people who are down on their luck doing something to "earn" some money. However, IMO if they have enough motivation to stand outside all day "picketing" for an organization they can't/don't belong to, then why don't they use that motivation to get a real job that will probably pay more than the $1 over minimum wage?

2) Unions paying non-union day laborers to picket companies that use non-union employees? Uhhh - say what? Doesn't this go against what they are supposedly fighting for? Do the members of the union realize how much of their dues money is going to people their union does not even represent?

They are paid a dollar over minimum wage and no benefits so they will unionize.

You think the Carpenter's union would still hire them if they tried to unionize? The picketer's union?

So should the picketer's union picket the non-union picket line (which is sponsored by a union)? Oh, the dilemmas!!

 

[BoomerD]

This is nothing new. The unions have been paying people to picket for YEARS...I remember when I was a kid and on my first picket line (as an apprentice)...there weren't enough people willing to walk the picket line, so the union hired a bunch of people through the local State employment office.

 

[Genx87]

Isnt it ironic these unions cry about outsourcing, then outsource their criers?

 

[Lemon law]

Hey them Union carpenters are highly skilled-----and get probably 6 times minimum wage when some not yet bankrupt fool can afford to hire them at Union Rates.

And then they go out on strike----and why not find some more rational type who will pay them 3 times minimum wage and no benefits---so they can be an employed scabs
against their own union---and have money left over to have someone walk the picket line.

And that solidarity forever if why this nation used to have a significant part of its work force unionized. And now its solidarity for temporary convince---and the unions are only a
single digit percentage of the work force--- and real wages are falling as the rich grub up a larger share of national wealth.

 

[mfs378]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

So should the picketer's union picket the non-union picket line (which is sponsored by a union)? Oh, the dilemmas!!

Too funny.

 

[MonkeyK]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...R2007072302011_pf.html

Although their placards identify the picketers as being with the Mid-Atlantic Regional Council of Carpenters, they are not union members.

...paid $1 above minimum wage and receive no benefits...

Two thoughts on this.

1) It's good to see these people who are down on their luck doing something to "earn" some money. However, IMO if they have enough motivation to stand outside all day "picketing" for an organization they can't/don't belong to, then why don't they use that motivation to get a real job that will probably pay more than the $1 over minimum wage?

2) Unions paying non-union day laborers to picket companies that use non-union employees? Uhhh - say what? Doesn't this go against what they are supposedly fighting for? Do the members of the union realize how much of their dues money is going to people their union does not even represent?

Fine form CAD, carpenters form a union, so they must think that all possible forms of work should be unionized. :roll:
The union carpenters could spend all of their time picketting, or they could hire someone to do it for them while they try to show that they make a good product.
I do agree with the article pointing out that the lack of union members at the picket line does reduce the impact of the protest. Without them, the picketers are nothing more than human billboards.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...R2007072302011_pf.html

Although their placards identify the picketers as being with the Mid-Atlantic Regional Council of Carpenters, they are not union members.

...paid $1 above minimum wage and receive no benefits...

Two thoughts on this.

1) It's good to see these people who are down on their luck doing something to "earn" some money. However, IMO if they have enough motivation to stand outside all day "picketing" for an organization they can't/don't belong to, then why don't they use that motivation to get a real job that will probably pay more than the $1 over minimum wage?

2) Unions paying non-union day laborers to picket companies that use non-union employees? Uhhh - say what? Doesn't this go against what they are supposedly fighting for? Do the members of the union realize how much of their dues money is going to people their union does not even represent?

You mean union members make enough money to be able to hire others to do some of their work for them??

Shocking!!

Where can I sign up for this Union?

 

[ProfJohn]

Ez and Monkey seem to miss the point?

The union is protesting low wages and no benefits in order to do so they hire people and pay them low wages and no benefits.

If it is so important, as the union says, to pay people livable wages and provide them benefits then why doesn?t the union do it themselves?
Maybe they realized that they can hire people and pay them a lower wage and still get the same results as the higher paid union members.

This is exactly what the businesses they are picketing have learned. Hire a non-union company and get the same results for less money.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Ez and Monkey seem to miss the point?

The union is protesting low wages and no benefits in order to do so they hire people and pay them low wages and no benefits.

If it is so important, as the union says, to pay people livable wages and provide them benefits then why doesn?t the union do it themselves?
Maybe they realized that they can hire people and pay them a lower wage and still get the same results as the higher paid union members.

This is exactly what the businesses they are picketing have learned. Hire a non-union company and get the same results for less money.

LOL, they are too busy practicing their skills and making their wages so they take a page out of the "Evil corporations that don't care about their employees Handbook" and you tightie righties are all over them. Don't do as we do, do as we say!!!!

People like you would have them wait until they're so poor they can't afford to strike. I guess maybe they aren't as dumb as you guys think.

The really funny part is if it was a corporation doing it you'd be defending it as "creating jobs"

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Ez and Monkey seem to miss the point?

The union is protesting low wages and no benefits in order to do so they hire people and pay them low wages and no benefits.

If it is so important, as the union says, to pay people livable wages and provide them benefits then why doesn?t the union do it themselves?
Maybe they realized that they can hire people and pay them a lower wage and still get the same results as the higher paid union members.

This is exactly what the businesses they are picketing have learned. Hire a non-union company and get the same results for less money.

Except it's hard to find good non Union Carpenters. Sure there are some but the vast majority of "Good" Carpetners are Union.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: MonkeyK

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...R2007072302011_pf.html

Although their placards identify the picketers as being with the Mid-Atlantic Regional Council of Carpenters, they are not union members.

...paid $1 above minimum wage and receive no benefits...

Two thoughts on this.

1) It's good to see these people who are down on their luck doing something to "earn" some money. However, IMO if they have enough motivation to stand outside all day "picketing" for an organization they can't/don't belong to, then why don't they use that motivation to get a real job that will probably pay more than the $1 over minimum wage?

2) Unions paying non-union day laborers to picket companies that use non-union employees? Uhhh - say what? Doesn't this go against what they are supposedly fighting for? Do the members of the union realize how much of their dues money is going to people their union does not even represent?

Fine form CAD, carpenters form a union, so they must think that all possible forms of work should be unionized. :roll:
The union carpenters could spend all of their time picketting, or they could hire someone to do it for them while they try to show that they make a good product.
I do agree with the article pointing out that the lack of union members at the picket line does reduce the impact of the protest. Without them, the picketers are nothing more than human billboards.

Huh? Where did I say they think(or should think) all forms of work should be unionized? The point(2) is about the union itself out there whining about people not using unions when they can't be bothered to use union employees to picket. Meaning, THEY the whining carpenter's union should be out there - not giving away their member's dues to people not in the union.

 

[MonkeyK]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Ez and Monkey seem to miss the point?

The union is protesting low wages and no benefits in order to do so they hire people and pay them low wages and no benefits.

If it is so important, as the union says, to pay people livable wages and provide them benefits then why doesn?t the union do it themselves?
Maybe they realized that they can hire people and pay them a lower wage and still get the same results as the higher paid union members.

This is exactly what the businesses they are picketing have learned. Hire a non-union company and get the same results for less money.

You have to understand a position before you can claim inconsistencies in it.

The carpenters have unionized. These picketers have not and are being paid prevailing rates for what they do. If you think that's unfair, please go and try to organize them. If the union tries to stop you or won't deal with your picketer's union, feel free to call them hippocrites.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Ez and Monkey seem to miss the point?

The union is protesting low wages and no benefits in order to do so they hire people and pay them low wages and no benefits.

If it is so important, as the union says, to pay people livable wages and provide them benefits then why doesn?t the union do it themselves?
Maybe they realized that they can hire people and pay them a lower wage and still get the same results as the higher paid union members.

This is exactly what the businesses they are picketing have learned. Hire a non-union company and get the same results for less money.

LOL, they are too busy practicing their skills and making their wages so they take a page out of the "Evil corporations that don't care about their employees Handbook" and you tightie righties are all over them. Don't do as we do, do as we say!!!!

People like you would have them wait until they're so poor they can't afford to strike. I guess maybe they aren't as dumb as you guys think.

The really funny part is if it was a corporation doing it you'd be defending it as "creating jobs"

Say what? Wait till they are poor?

I swear some of you union slurpers lose all rationality when someone dares expose what unions do.

Edit - removed portion not directed at me

 

[MonkeyK]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: MonkeyK

Fine form CAD, carpenters form a union, so they must think that all possible forms of work should be unionized. :roll:
The union carpenters could spend all of their time picketting, or they could hire someone to do it for them while they try to show that they make a good product.
I do agree with the article pointing out that the lack of union members at the picket line does reduce the impact of the protest. Without them, the picketers are nothing more than human billboards.

Huh? Where did I say they think(or should think) all forms of work should be unionized? The point(2) is about the union itself out there whining about people not using unions when they can't be bothered to use union employees to picket. Meaning, THEY the whining carpenter's union should be out there - not giving away their member's dues to people not in the union.

Same as to John, if they won't hire from a picketers union, they I will take your argument seriously. In the mean time, it is their business to decide how to do their PR. I am sure that they would be shooting themselves in the foot if they would rather picket than complete the jobs that show what union carpenters are capable of doing.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Ez and Monkey seem to miss the point?

The union is protesting low wages and no benefits in order to do so they hire people and pay them low wages and no benefits.

If it is so important, as the union says, to pay people livable wages and provide them benefits then why doesn?t the union do it themselves?
Maybe they realized that they can hire people and pay them a lower wage and still get the same results as the higher paid union members.

This is exactly what the businesses they are picketing have learned. Hire a non-union company and get the same results for less money.

Except it's hard to find good non Union Carpenters. Sure there are some but the vast majority of "Good" Carpetners are Union.

Not really. It really depends on the location and how it's politics are. Unions who have gov't backing usually are able to run most non-union competition off due to getting building contracts written with union clauses.

Also, I've seen my share of ***** union carpenters(not to mention the other trades).

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: MonkeyK

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: MonkeyK

Fine form CAD, carpenters form a union, so they must think that all possible forms of work should be unionized. :roll:
The union carpenters could spend all of their time picketting, or they could hire someone to do it for them while they try to show that they make a good product.
I do agree with the article pointing out that the lack of union members at the picket line does reduce the impact of the protest. Without them, the picketers are nothing more than human billboards.

Huh? Where did I say they think(or should think) all forms of work should be unionized? The point(2) is about the union itself out there whining about people not using unions when they can't be bothered to use union employees to picket. Meaning, THEY the whining carpenter's union should be out there - not giving away their member's dues to people not in the union.

Same as to John, if they won't hire from a picketers union, they I will take your argument seriously. In the mean time, it is their business to decide how to do their PR. I am sure that they would be shooting themselves in the foot if they would rather picket than complete the jobs that show what union carpenters are capable of doing.

You'd have a point if my post was specifically about them not using a picketing union. However there is much more to this than that. If you were a union member, would you want your dues spent on paying people who do not necessarily care about your cause or represent your interests? What does it gain the union worker by having their union spend money on this? Why not have actual members do this picketing(for no apparant reason) if it works so well. You'd think it's be tons more effective if REAL union carpenters were out there - no?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...R2007072302011_pf.html

Although their placards identify the picketers as being with the Mid-Atlantic Regional Council of Carpenters, they are not union members.

...paid $1 above minimum wage and receive no benefits...

Two thoughts on this.

1) It's good to see these people who are down on their luck doing something to "earn" some money. However, IMO if they have enough motivation to stand outside all day "picketing" for an organization they can't/don't belong to, then why don't they use that motivation to get a real job that will probably pay more than the $1 over minimum wage?

2) Unions paying non-union day laborers to picket companies that use non-union employees? Uhhh - say what? Doesn't this go against what they are supposedly fighting for? Do the members of the union realize how much of their dues money is going to people their union does not even represent?

You mean union members make enough money to be able to hire others to do some of their work for them??

Shocking!!

Where can I sign up for this Union?

No, the union forces members to give up a cut of their check which means the Union has enough money to hire others.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Ez and Monkey seem to miss the point?

The union is protesting low wages and no benefits in order to do so they hire people and pay them low wages and no benefits.

If it is so important, as the union says, to pay people livable wages and provide them benefits then why doesn?t the union do it themselves?
Maybe they realized that they can hire people and pay them a lower wage and still get the same results as the higher paid union members.

This is exactly what the businesses they are picketing have learned. Hire a non-union company and get the same results for less money.

LOL, they are too busy practicing their skills and making their wages so they take a page out of the "Evil corporations that don't care about their employees Handbook" and you tightie righties are all over them. Don't do as we do, do as we say!!!!

People like you would have them wait until they're so poor they can't afford to strike. I guess maybe they aren't as dumb as you guys think.

The really funny part is if it was a corporation doing it you'd be defending it as "creating jobs"

Say what? Wait till they are poor?

I swear some of you union slurpers lose all rationality when someone dares expose what unions do.

Say what? Slurping? WTF are you slurping about?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...R2007072302011_pf.html

Although their placards identify the picketers as being with the Mid-Atlantic Regional Council of Carpenters, they are not union members.

...paid $1 above minimum wage and receive no benefits...

Two thoughts on this.

1) It's good to see these people who are down on their luck doing something to "earn" some money. However, IMO if they have enough motivation to stand outside all day "picketing" for an organization they can't/don't belong to, then why don't they use that motivation to get a real job that will probably pay more than the $1 over minimum wage?

2) Unions paying non-union day laborers to picket companies that use non-union employees? Uhhh - say what? Doesn't this go against what they are supposedly fighting for? Do the members of the union realize how much of their dues money is going to people their union does not even represent?

You mean union members make enough money to be able to hire others to do some of their work for them??

Shocking!!

Where can I sign up for this Union?

No, the union forces members to give up a cut of their check which means the Union has enough money to hire others.

Your not even making since your slurping so badly. :laugh:

 

[MonkeyK]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: MonkeyK

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: MonkeyK

Fine form CAD, carpenters form a union, so they must think that all possible forms of work should be unionized. :roll:
The union carpenters could spend all of their time picketting, or they could hire someone to do it for them while they try to show that they make a good product.
I do agree with the article pointing out that the lack of union members at the picket line does reduce the impact of the protest. Without them, the picketers are nothing more than human billboards.

Huh? Where did I say they think(or should think) all forms of work should be unionized? The point(2) is about the union itself out there whining about people not using unions when they can't be bothered to use union employees to picket. Meaning, THEY the whining carpenter's union should be out there - not giving away their member's dues to people not in the union.

Same as to John, if they won't hire from a picketers union, they I will take your argument seriously. In the mean time, it is their business to decide how to do their PR. I am sure that they would be shooting themselves in the foot if they would rather picket than complete the jobs that show what union carpenters are capable of doing.

You'd have a point if my post was specifically about them not using a picketing union. However there is much more to this than that. If you were a union member, would you want your dues spent on paying people who do not necessarily care about your cause or represent your interests? What does it gain the union worker by having their union spend money on this? Why not have actual members do this picketing(for no apparant reason) if it works so well. You'd think it's be tons more effective if REAL union carpenters were out there - no?

I do have a point. You would have a point if you were in the union that decided to hire picketers. The union decided that their best interests were served by continuing to to carpentry while they hired picketers. I agree that the point is more effective if a union carpenter or several were picketing and able to fully represent the union's viewpoint, however the union is in the best position to decide how to best balance effectiveness of the picketting and showcasing their vocation (something that they cannot do if they are not working).

Try turning your thought experiment around: what would you think of the union carpenters if they left their contracted jobs or refused new ones so that they could picket some non-union jobsite?