Outsourcing is Evil!!!!

MrYogi

Platinum Member
Mar 15, 2003
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Text

There are so many people in this country without jobs. How can companies outsource the projects to other countries?

WTH?? :|:| How can the state government outsource their projects? WTF are we paying the taxes for?
:|:|
Federal govt and the State govt should discontinue giving loans, discounts, etc., to the companies that outsource.
 

ReiAyanami

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2002
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because u can hire like a billion of their workers for the price of one of ours. its called freemarket economy. our goverment should guarantee a job to every american along with universal healthcare, food rations, and ironed curtains....
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: MrYogi
Text

There are so many people in this country without jobs. How can companies outsource the projects to other countries?

WTH?? :|:| How can the state government outsource their projects? WTF are we paying the taxes for?
:|:|
Federal govt and the State govt should discontinue giving loans, discounts, etc., to the companies that outsource.
The US state of Indiana has cancelled a $15.2 million contract with an Indian company in what is being seen as a blow to outsourcing jobs to India.

Justifying the cancellation of the four-year contract, Kernan said the agency's request for competitive proposals had been designed and advertised in such a way that it "virtually knocked Indiana companies out of the running."

Top aides to the then governor, Frank O'Bannon, had signed off on the politically sensitive, four-year contract before his September 13 death. State officials got a number of letters and phone calls complaining about the contract after The Indianapolis Star wrote about it on September 29.

William Walder, a computer programmer from Fort Wayne who's looking for work, hailed Kernan's decision.

"That's excellent. I'm elated," Walder said. "That, hopefully, will open up the doors to Indiana people."

During the project, as many as 65 contract employees were to work in the Indiana Government Center alongside 18 state workers.

Tata had said it would hire local subcontractors and do some local recruiting, but most workers were to come from India.

Lt. Gov. Kathy Davis, who leads the state's economic development efforts, said Thursday that the state government needs to do a better job of giving Indiana companies lead time on major projects.

She and Kernan said a new initiative, "Opportunity Indiana," will be launched to ensure the state buys even more goods and services within Indiana.

"As leaders, we have an obligation to build the capacity of our businesses here at home.

Senator Jeff Drozda said he still plans to proceed with a December 1 hearing on Senate Bill 4 that would require that contracts for services entered into by a state agency must specify that only US citizens authorised to work in the United States can be hired.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is obvious the State of Indiana hid this from it's citizens. Now that this whole "Outsourcing of everything" has been coming to forefront for all to see the under handed crap that people like this dead Politician did that the citizens of this Country are fighting back.

Viva La America!!!



 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
because u can hire like a billion of their workers for the price of one of ours. its called freemarket economy. our goverment should guarantee a job to every american along with universal healthcare, food rations, and ironed curtains....
You think it is Ok to fly foreigners here to replace Americans? You should live in India, bye.

 

Ldir

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2003
2,184
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0
Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
because u can hire like a billion of their workers for the price of one of ours. its called freemarket economy. our goverment should guarantee a job to every american along with universal healthcare, food rations, and ironed curtains....
Why is it wrong for our government to protect the employment of its citizens? How do we serve the public interest by letting millions of Americans lose good jobs? How is pushing families into poverty good for America? Do you plan to keep raising taxes on the shrinking pool of middle class employees to pay welfare to the growing pool of impoverished families?
 

Shad0hawK

Banned
May 26, 2003
1,456
0
0
Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
because u can hire like a billion of their workers for the price of one of ours. its called freemarket economy. our goverment should guarantee a job to every american along with universal healthcare, food rations, and ironed curtains....
socialism never works.

 

Crimson

Banned
Oct 11, 1999
3,809
0
0
Originally posted by: MrYogi
Text

There are so many people in this country without jobs. How can companies outsource the projects to other countries?

WTH?? :|:| How can the state government outsource their projects? WTF are we paying the taxes for?
:|:|
Federal govt and the State govt should discontinue giving loans, discounts, etc., to the companies that outsource.
Companies do this because you aren't willing to pay $900 for your ATI 9800 Pro, and $250.00 for a 256meg stick of DDR.. or $80 for a pair of jeans..

Put your money where your mouth is, start buying American products for twice the price.. then you will see jobs remain here. When foreign people can do the same work for 1/10th the cost.. why should they stay here? Especially if you will go and buy the $25 pair of jeans over their $80 pair.

Makes sense to me.. it sucks, but it makes sense..

And, unemployment is 6%, its not like the whole country is out of work.. and I am willing to bet our unemployment rate is better than most other countries.
 

DarkKnight

Golden Member
Apr 21, 2001
1,197
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Also, american companies are sending companies in other countries out of business, it's not like we're the only one's hurting
 

daniel1113

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
6,448
0
0
Originally posted by: MrYogi
Text

There are so many people in this country without jobs. How can companies outsource the projects to other countries?

WTH?? :|:| How can the state government outsource their projects? WTF are we paying the taxes for?
:|:|
Federal govt and the State govt should discontinue giving loans, discounts, etc., to the companies that outsource.
Also, the government can't just stop giving loans, discounts, etc. to companies that outsource. These companies make up a HUGE part of the U.S. economy. Punishing them will only make them outsource more. In fact, small businesses aside, I doubt there are any corporations that don't outsource.

Outsourcing isn't evil. It is the reason we have all the goods we have now at such low prices. As many have mentioned before, do you really think you could buy a complete computer for system for under $1000 if everything was made here in America? I don't think so.
 

ReiAyanami

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2002
4,466
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we're the biggest proponents of a freemarket economy and that's the way it works. u want "job security" and 1 year unemployment benefits, move to europe. let's make job security so strict that corporations will stop hiring all together.

if u don't wanna be replaced, make urself irreplaceable
 

daniel1113

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
6,448
0
0
Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
we're the biggest proponents of a freemarket economy and that's the way it works. u want "job security" and 1 year unemployment benefits, move to europe. let's make job security so strict that corporations will stop hiring all together.

if u don't wanna be replaced, make urself irreplaceable
You mean, take personal responsibility?!? GASP!
 

Genesys

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2003
1,536
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Originally posted by: Ldir
Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
because u can hire like a billion of their workers for the price of one of ours. its called freemarket economy. our goverment should guarantee a job to every american along with universal healthcare, food rations, and ironed curtains....
Why is it wrong for our government to protect the employment of its citizens? How do we serve the public interest by letting millions of Americans lose good jobs? How is pushing families into poverty good for America? Do you plan to keep raising taxes on the shrinking pool of middle class employees to pay welfare to the growing pool of impoverished families?
because the society shouldnt lean on the govt to function, the govt should lean on society.
 

daniel1113

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
6,448
0
0
Originally posted by: Genesys
Originally posted by: Ldir
Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
because u can hire like a billion of their workers for the price of one of ours. its called freemarket economy. our goverment should guarantee a job to every american along with universal healthcare, food rations, and ironed curtains....
Why is it wrong for our government to protect the employment of its citizens? How do we serve the public interest by letting millions of Americans lose good jobs? How is pushing families into poverty good for America? Do you plan to keep raising taxes on the shrinking pool of middle class employees to pay welfare to the growing pool of impoverished families?
because the society shouldnt lean on the govt to function, the govt should lean on society.
"In this sense it is that your union ought to be considered as a main prop of your liberty, and that the love of the one ought to endear to you the preservation of the other? [A]nd remember, especially, that for the efficient management of your common interests, in a country so extensive as ours, a government of as much vigor as is consistent with the perfect security of liberty is indispensable. Liberty itself will find in such a government, with powers properly distributed and adjusted, its surest guardian. It is, indeed, little else than a name, where the government is too feeble to withstand the enterprises of faction, to confine each member of the society within the limits prescribed by the laws, and to maintain all in the secure and tranquil enjoyment of the rights of person and property."
 

xyyz

Diamond Member
Sep 3, 2000
4,331
0
0
sometime the states don't know.

i consult for a group out here... they are an american based corporation, who have their development house in India. as far as the state is concerned, they are selecting an american company that can fullfill the requirements laid out in the RFQ at a much lower cost.
 

xyyz

Diamond Member
Sep 3, 2000
4,331
0
0
Originally posted by: Ldir
Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
because u can hire like a billion of their workers for the price of one of ours. its called freemarket economy. our goverment should guarantee a job to every american along with universal healthcare, food rations, and ironed curtains....
Why is it wrong for our government to protect the employment of its citizens? How do we serve the public interest by letting millions of Americans lose good jobs? How is pushing families into poverty good for America? Do you plan to keep raising taxes on the shrinking pool of middle class employees to pay welfare to the growing pool of impoverished families?
honestly, they only way for this guy to actually feel the burn is when he/she loses his/her job because it can be done much cheaper overseas.

 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
we're the biggest proponents of a freemarket economy and that's the way it works. u want "job security" and 1 year unemployment benefits, move to europe. let's make job security so strict that corporations will stop hiring all together.

if u don't wanna be replaced, make urself irreplaceable
You mean, take personal responsibility?!? GASP!
Scoff now boys, but your jobs (or job prospects) may be next. No one is irreplacable. Almost every profession is vulnerable. The exceptions are those professions that require local, face-to-face or hands-on personal service. This includes a few high-paying professionals like doctors and lawyers (though much of their work could be sent off-shore too.) Mostly, it includes retail and service-sector jobs, i.e., jobs with low wages and limited benefits. There simply isn't enough need for doctors and lawyers to offset the loss of high-quality jobs.

There is another, more subtle effect that I fear will be more damaging to the American way of life. As the number of high-paying jobs shrinks, there will be more and more competition for the jobs that remain. When you have more sellers than buyers, the price drops. Over time, most high-paying American jobs will no longer be high-paying. We are already seeing this effect in IT.

In short, the ultimate equilibrium may be the U.S. standard of living dropping to meet our third-world competitors. We will have a very few very wealthy people, and the vast majority living in poverty. America may have already seen the highest overall standard of living it will ever see. Your children or grandchildren may long for the days when they didn't have to share a house and a car with two or three other families.


 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Scoff now boys, but your jobs (or job prospects) may be next. No one is irreplacable. Almost every profession is vulnerable. The exceptions are those professions that require local, face-to-face or hands-on personal service. This includes a few high-paying professionals like doctors and lawyers (though much of their work could be sent off-shore too.) Mostly, it includes retail and service-sector jobs, i.e., jobs with low wages and limited benefits. There simply isn't enough need for doctors and lawyers to offset the loss of high-quality jobs.

There is another, more subtle effect that I fear will be more damaging to the American way of life. As the number of high-paying jobs shrinks, there will be more and more competition for the jobs that remain. When you have more sellers than buyers, the price drops. Over time, most high-paying American jobs will no longer be high-paying. We are already seeing this effect in IT.

In short, the ultimate equilibrium may be the U.S. standard of living dropping to meet our third-world competitors. We will have a very few very wealthy people, and the vast majority living in poverty. America may have already seen the highest overall standard of living it will ever see. Your children or grandchildren may long for the days when they didn't have to share a house and a car with two or three other families.
/me ducks under my desk waiting for the fluffy clouds to fall from the sky.


PS look at Denver's need for Health professionals....I do believe they are even offering signing bonuses. Read up on it.

CkG
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Scoff now boys, but your jobs (or job prospects) may be next. No one is irreplacable. Almost every profession is vulnerable. The exceptions are those professions that require local, face-to-face or hands-on personal service. This includes a few high-paying professionals like doctors and lawyers (though much of their work could be sent off-shore too.) Mostly, it includes retail and service-sector jobs, i.e., jobs with low wages and limited benefits. There simply isn't enough need for doctors and lawyers to offset the loss of high-quality jobs.

There is another, more subtle effect that I fear will be more damaging to the American way of life. As the number of high-paying jobs shrinks, there will be more and more competition for the jobs that remain. When you have more sellers than buyers, the price drops. Over time, most high-paying American jobs will no longer be high-paying. We are already seeing this effect in IT.

In short, the ultimate equilibrium may be the U.S. standard of living dropping to meet our third-world competitors. We will have a very few very wealthy people, and the vast majority living in poverty. America may have already seen the highest overall standard of living it will ever see. Your children or grandchildren may long for the days when they didn't have to share a house and a car with two or three other families.
/me ducks under my desk waiting for the fluffy clouds to fall from the sky.


PS look at Denver's need for Health professionals....I do believe they are even offering signing bonuses. Read up on it.

CkG
And?

Unless they have several million openings, this is just more partisan noise to distract us from a growing problem.


 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Scoff now boys, but your jobs (or job prospects) may be next. No one is irreplacable. Almost every profession is vulnerable. The exceptions are those professions that require local, face-to-face or hands-on personal service. This includes a few high-paying professionals like doctors and lawyers (though much of their work could be sent off-shore too.) Mostly, it includes retail and service-sector jobs, i.e., jobs with low wages and limited benefits. There simply isn't enough need for doctors and lawyers to offset the loss of high-quality jobs.

There is another, more subtle effect that I fear will be more damaging to the American way of life. As the number of high-paying jobs shrinks, there will be more and more competition for the jobs that remain. When you have more sellers than buyers, the price drops. Over time, most high-paying American jobs will no longer be high-paying. We are already seeing this effect in IT.

In short, the ultimate equilibrium may be the U.S. standard of living dropping to meet our third-world competitors. We will have a very few very wealthy people, and the vast majority living in poverty. America may have already seen the highest overall standard of living it will ever see. Your children or grandchildren may long for the days when they didn't have to share a house and a car with two or three other families.
/me ducks under my desk waiting for the fluffy clouds to fall from the sky.


PS look at Denver's need for Health professionals....I do believe they are even offering signing bonuses. Read up on it.

CkG
And?

Unless they have several million openings, this is just more partisan noise to distract us from a growing problem.
And?

Seems to me that things are looking up and comparatively weren't as bad as it's been in the past, but maybe the "the sky is falling" rants are just more partisan noise to distract us from the truth that things are looking and getting better daily.

CkG
 

ReiAyanami

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2002
4,466
0
0
one thing's for sure: protectism won't work.

take europe for example. labor party strongholds created laws to protect jobs:

1) 1-yr unemployment benefits: this gives everybody enough time to find a new job after those evil corporations downsized you for being inefficient. furthermore your enemployment benefits are locked in at the income you were making when you got fired, unlike here where it is a small fraction of when most ppl make...

2) 6-week, even multiple month long vacations: cuz companies have to hire a temp to replace you while ur gone, more more jobs (even if temporary)!!

3) 6-hour working days, by forcing ppl to work less, it forces companies to hire more ppl, thereby spreading out the jobs to more ppl!!

4) laws make it hard to fire workers because downsizing and outsourcing is evilll!!!

With these powerful laws protecting worker rights in Europe, surely it must be a worker's paradise over there. Then why are taxes and unemployment sky high? (ex: germany 11%, dresden 13%)

Because this is what protectism actually does:
1) 1-yr unemployment benefits: when you give ridiculously long benefits, ppl take advantage of them, why would anybody find a job when they get paid the exact same amount for doing nothing for a full year?! real productive huh. it has been long well known that unemployed on unemployment benefits magically "find a job" right as their benefits expire. this has been noted by economists in the US despite our unemployment benefits being rather paltry.

2) 6-week, even multiple month long vacations: always a great way to increase productivity by giving them an entire month to recharge their "wally work battery"... you can make a worker more productive by giving a 2-3 week paid vacation, but a month long or 6 weeks and the loss in productivity outweighs by far.

3) 6-hour working days, when you decrease hours by 25% that means less productivity per worker, no matter what! furthermore that would mean a greater proportion of time is spent travelling to and from work. also less wages means each worker has less buying power which means factories produce less which means less jobs

4) laws make it hard to fire workers so most companies now don't even bother to hire new workers. why hire somebody when it will be very hard to fire them later, even if your business is bleeding money. if you make it that hard to fire, nobody will even hire.

as you can see not a single protectorism law actually generated any new permanent job, but instead caused many to be lost. so to those who dislike outsourcing, how do you propose solving this problem? (preferably not thru legislative means because as you can see it only aggravates the problem)
 

ReiAyanami

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2002
4,466
0
0
i actually dislike outsourcing, but i don't see any clear solutions.

according to Cnet survey
80% of companies that outsourced abroad are dissatisfied with the results
20% actually do not save any money (the lose money by outsourcing)


feasible solutions:
1) invest in education "make our workers irreplaceable..."
2) offer tax incentives for companies to stay here
3) set up an anti-outsourcing organization that highlights companies that have outsourced so consumers can make the choice to not buy there products "made in america"
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Seems to me that things are looking up and comparatively weren't as bad as it's been in the past,
Only the very recent past, i.e., the term of the Bush-lite administration.


but maybe the "the sky is falling" rants are just more partisan noise to distract us from the truth that things are looking and getting better daily.

CkG
No, they really aren't. Yes, we are finally gaining back a few hundred thousand of the several million jobs lost in the last three years. Unfortunately, all jobs are NOT created equal. If you look at the big picture, there has been a steady drop in the number of "good" jobs. This overall loss has not been offset by the increasing number of mediocre jobs at places like Wal-Mart and McDonalds.


(And before you begin another of your knee-jerk partisan rants, this loss of good jobs began long before the Bush-lite administration. I am NOT claiming it is entirely his fault. However, the trend has accelerated under Bush's watch, Bush is in a position where he could try to do something about it, and he has failed to do so. In short, I hold Bush responsible for not doing anything to fix the problem, but not exclusively for creating the problem.)
 

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