Outrage in Stanford Rape Case Over Light Sentence for Attacker and Stmt by His Father

[glenn1]

I'm just trying to get at the % of blame you want to push onto victims.

It's fascinating reading.

You're correct, we should encourage women (and anyone really) to get blackout drunk even more often because "blaming" them is unfair.

 

[jackstar7]

You're correct, we should encourage women (and anyone really) to get blackout drunk even more often because "blaming" them is unfair.

Your counterpoint is that I'm encouraging it?

Now we have to see at what point you notice the lack of solid ground under your feet, or if you just keep trying to run to the other side of this in spite of gravity.

 

[mikeymikec]

There are two different actors at play here (there could be more given situation) and the actions of both can be considered independently. One can fairly say "it was irresponsible of you to get blackout drunk" while still holding accountable someone who took advantage (criminally, morally, or in other ways) of the person in that state. While people screaming "victim blaming" do have a point that much more than a cursory look at the actions of the victim is rarely productive, it also shouldn't serve as an absolute shield from any criticism whatsoever of their actions and it certainly can and should inform public policy and perhaps how laws are written (the example of "what if both people are drunk and thus cannot be said to give complete and voluntary consent" is a good thought experiment).

I don't think anyone is talking about an "absolute shield" insofar as most people would regard it as utterly inappropriate to say berate a pedestrian for staring at their phone after a driver mounted the pavement and ran them over.

I don't see how the victim's actions in either case should be considered as even vaguely relevant when writing laws on drink-driving or sexual assault.

In your thought experiment scenario, I think it is unlikely that if two people are proven to be intoxicated that one could be considered as guilty of a sexual offence UNLESS witnesses attest to one blatantly ignoring the other's protestations (or the perpetrator is conscious while the victim is unconscious), at which point, coming back to my previous post, then the one instigating is clearly a risk to the other.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

In your thought experiment scenario, I think it is unlikely that if two people are proven to be intoxicated that one could be considered as guilty of a sexual offence UNLESS witnesses attest to one blatantly ignoring the other's protestations (or the perpetrator is conscious while the victim is unconscious), at which point, coming back to my previous post, then the one instigating is clearly a risk to the other.

Pretty sure that this has happened a good number of times- especially on college campus'

It's not hard to find feminist retards that say statements (and I quote) "Listen and believe". As if the statements from a woman are more valuable or more credible than a man's (bbbb-b-but equality!)

 

[jackstar7]

Pretty sure that this has happened a good number of times- especially on college campus'

It's not hard to find feminist retards that say statements (and I quote) "Listen and believe". As if the statements from a woman are more valuable or more credible than a man's (bbbb-b-but equality!)

The insecurity.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

The insecurity.

The lack of any legitimate arguments.

Entirely expected though.

 

[jackstar7]

The lack of any legitimate arguments.

Entirely expected though.

You've self-owned so hard in this thread, I don't need to present anything other than your own words.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Pretty sure that this has happened a good number of times- especially on college campus'

It's not hard to find feminist retards that say statements (and I quote) "Listen and believe". As if the statements from a woman are more valuable or more credible than a man's (bbbb-b-but equality!)

You get that because women has so often not been listened to that many now consider it better to error on the side of the women. The pendulum swings one way nearly as far as it went the other. Every time someone tries to victim blame they are pushing that pendulum a little, and it is going to swing back just as far. If you want to get it to stop in the center you have to stop pushing it.

 

[mikeymikec]

You get that because women has so often not been listened to that many now consider it better to error on the side of the women. The pendulum swings one way nearly as far as it went the other. Every time someone tries to victim blame they are pushing that pendulum a little, and it is going to swing back just as far. If you want to get it to stop in the center you have to stop pushing it.

And the last false rape allegation statistic I heard was from the UK at 0.5%.

 

[Viper1j]

You get that because women has so often not been listened to that many now consider it better to error on the side of the women. The pendulum swings one way nearly as far as it went the other. Every time someone tries to victim blame they are pushing that pendulum a little, and it is going to swing back just as far. If you want to get it to stop in the center you have to stop pushing it.

So, once upon a time no woman was believed, and in order to fix that, now EVERY woman must be believed..

Thank God for video.. And free passes for females.

http://www.fox4news.com/news/woman-...trooper-of-rape-won-t-face-additional-charges

Woman who falsely accused DPS trooper of rape won't face additional charges

The woman who made false rape allegations against a Texas DPS trooper will not face any additional charges.

The Ellis County District Attorney made the announcement Friday that no criminal charges will be filed against Sherita- Dixon Cole for “blatantly false and malicious allegations” since a formal complaint to an authorized officer was never made.

Dixon-Cole was pulled over on suspicion of drunk driving in Ellis County last Sunday. She claimed the trooper raped her during her arrest. However, body cam video of the arrest released on Wednesday disputed her claim.

While Dixon-Cole was in jail, officials say she made several phone calls in which she made detailed false allegations of criminal conduct against the trooper who arrested her. Officials say it is from those phone calls that the false claims against the trooper were made public.

During her stay in jail, investigators say Dixon-Cole made repeated outcries to a detention officer, who urged her to file a complaint with DPS. After she persisted with her complaint to jailers, she was taken to a hospital by Ellis County Sheriff's Office personnel. However, she refused to be examined or treated.

Dixon-Cole's lawyer Lee Merritt and activist Shaun King posted the officer's name and her false account of what happened. Merritt later apologized for the false claims while King admitted that Dixon-Cole lied.

The trooper who was falsely accused and another unrelated Waco trooper with the same last name have been targeted by people believing Cole's claims. One of the trooper's attorney says he's endured "substantial harassment and threats" and even had to make a "request for protection."

Ellis County District Attorney Patrick Wilson says he shares the outrage felt by the public for the false and malicious allegations made by Dixon-Cole. He considered two possible charges for her lies, but he says the facts in the case don't meet the guidelines for a criminal act.

The catch is only sworn peace officers can take a formal complaint. Dixon-Cole made her complaints to the jailers, who are not sworn peace officers. According to the DA’s office, it means she cannot be charged with filing a false report.

Dixon-Cole also did not make a false claim of being in imminent danger, which means she cannot be charged with what's referred to as “creating a false alarm.”

The Ellis County District Attorney Patrick Wilson released the following statement:

“The real harm, in this case, was caused when outside parties with no concern for the truth employed social media to ignite flames of malice and discontent. That bell, once rung, cannot be un-rung. Sadly, the situation that unfolded here in Ellis County over the past five days is being repeated in communities all across our country every day. In our fast-paced, social media-driven world, truth and justice too often take a back seat to misguided keyboard anger. As we know, there are tragic consequences for that behavior. Baseless digital rage can create real world, innocent victims. As things stand in our world today, there is no reason to think the problem will soon be solved.”

The Ellis County District Attorney’s Office says any other possible legal remedies are outside the scope of their office.

 

[mikeymikec]

So, once upon a time no woman was believed, and in order to fix that, now EVERY woman must be believed..

Thank God for video.. And free passes for females.

http://www.fox4news.com/news/woman-...trooper-of-rape-won-t-face-additional-charges

For your stupid assertions to be even vaguely conforming to fact, he would have been charged despite the bodycam footage and lack of any supporting evidence for her claim.

According to the article, here is the story: Woman makes a rape allegation. Bodycam footage is checked, no rape found. Man is not charged.

Let's break this down a bit further: A person claims that something unlawful has occurred. It is investigated and found not to be factual. Investigation is concluded. What about this scenario is upsetting to you? Would you have preferred for investigators to assume that she's lying without having investigated her claims?

 

[Viper1j]

No, the trooper wasn't charged.

 

[mikeymikec]

No, the trooper wasn't charged.

I'm not sure why you're stating something that isn't in dispute.

 

[Viper1j]

Without the bodycam, that cop would be sitting in jail or out on bail right now.

"Women would NEVER lie about rape.." -- Gloria Allred.

 

[mikeymikec]

Without the bodycam, that cop would be sitting in jail or out on bail right now.

Generally speaking, that's complete BS IMO. But as you've proven so well in this thread, you'll believe what you like regardless of evidence, for which there isn't even the vaguest suggestion that you could be correct from the available evidence.

But good job as usual in wanting to avoid any counterpoints to things you've said.

 

[SMOGZINN]

So, once upon a time no woman was believed, and in order to fix that, now EVERY woman must be believed..

No, it is that people believe, rightfully so, that more men will deny a true story of rape than women will claim a false rape. Knowing that it is better to believe the woman making the claim than the man denying it.

They will still have to prove it in court, and that will still require the same burden of proof of any other crime.

Without the bodycam, that cop would be sitting in jail or out on bail right now.

And I could claim that you murdered my Aunt Thelma and you would be sitting in a jail right now too. At least until they discovered that I did not have an Aunt Thelma. Being arrested is not punishment and does not require a burden of proof.

 

[mikeymikec]

And I could claim that you murdered my Aunt Thelma and you would be sitting in a jail right now too. At least until they discovered that I did not have an Aunt Thelma. Being arrested is not punishment and does not require a burden of proof.

Really?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probable_cause

 

[SMOGZINN]

Really?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probable_cause

Probably cause is a lower bar than burden of proof. Reporting a crime can give probable cause that a crime has been committed. I don't really agree with this either, but the courts have lowered the bar for probable cause quite a bit in the last few decades.

From your link:

Even hearsay can supply probable cause if it is from a reliable source or supported by other evidence, according to the Aguilar–Spinelli test.

 

[mikeymikec]

Probably cause is a lower bar than burden of proof. Reporting a crime can give probable cause that a crime has been committed. I don't really agree with this either, but the courts have lowered the bar for probable cause quite a bit in the last few decades.

From your link:

I just would have thought that for your scenario to work, he'd have to at least plausibly have encountered your aunt and she is known to be missing (ie. 'other evidence' / circumstantial evidence), and to bring it back to viper1j's article, had the woman undergone an examination and evidence had been found of sexual interaction then I would see why that might be sufficient cause to detain the guy pending further investigation.

 

[Vic]

Yaknow, I have to confess.. sometimes I read some of this victim blaming shit and think to myself, "that poster really needs a nice Hot Cosby."
But anyway..

 

[glenn1]

Yaknow, I have to confess.. sometimes I read some of this victim blaming shit and think to myself, "that poster really needs a nice Hot Cosby."
But anyway..

Maybe if we didn't attempt to shield victims from any amount of blame whatsoever then perhaps some of them (and even some other people) might learn something and we'd have less victims in the future.

 

[Viper1j]

Maybe if we didn't attempt to shield victims from any amount of blame whatsoever then perhaps some of them (and even some other people) might learn something and we'd have less victims in the future.

It's Friday! I'm going to go out, and get blasted. I'm going to run into a school bus full of nuns, and just blame it on the bossa nova.

Hopefully, I'll get a free pass.

 

[jackstar7]

Maybe if we didn't attempt to shield victims from any amount of blame whatsoever then perhaps some of them (and even some other people) might learn something and we'd have less victims in the future.

Yeah. And maybe if we really punish people who use drugs they'll see the consequences and stop their damaging behavior... that's always worked in the past.

 

[Vic]

Maybe if we didn't attempt to shield victims from any amount of blame whatsoever then perhaps some of them (and even some other people) might learn something and we'd have less victims in the future.

Or maybe some people like to blame the victim in order to shield the perpetrator.

 

[mikeymikec]

Maybe if we didn't attempt to shield victims from any amount of blame whatsoever then perhaps some of them (and even some other people) might learn something and we'd have less victims in the future.

Wow. You don't honestly think that when women in particular read about a rape in the news, that they're reminded yet again that there are men out there who will literally do anything to get in their pants. You don't honestly think that most women will have given some thought and taken the time to discuss with others ways of minimising the chance of them being attacked. As if to most adult women that this topic is somehow new to them.

Also, how can you never have heard of anyone who has had something bad to them and trying to come up with reasons why/how they should have done things differently in hindsight (it's so well known that it's referred to as 'bargaining', the third stage of grief, look it up), despite the fact that there's often no direct cause/consequence to be found in their actions.

Your ignorance is staggering. Maybe you should actually talk to some women in say their twenties or thirties and actually learn what it's like to be at far higher risk of sexual assault than you are. Or read up about the aftermath experiences of sexual assault victims. Or you know, carry on ranting here like you have even the slightest fucking idea what you're talking about.