outdoor cat5 run and lightning

[fender strat]

Hey guys,

I want to run my existing internet connection from my house to my garage and I don't want to use wifi. I'm looking at about a 60 foot burial run.

At first I tried a test run by splitting the normal RG6 cable using a splitter and an old modem I had laying around. Unfortunately (and I didn't know this) my cable company (Charter Cable) will not allow 2 modems to be run from the same cable drop.

They wanted me to add a second account and charge me a second line, which I am not willing or able to do. I am disabled and on a fixed income so I decided to look for ways around this.

Since I can't use the RG6 (which would have been the easiest and safest) I now am now thinking about running Cat5 from the house router, all the way to the garage and buying a cheap router to connect inside there.

I have done some research and I think I will be ok using the regular (non-burrial) cat5 indoor cable, run through a garden hose and burried. The direct burrial cat5 is just too expensive for me and I already have a spool of regular indoor run cat5 to use so I am just going to use what I have here.

I think that running through the garden hose will be just fine as far as the elements are concerened, however I have been reading a lot about lightning strikes and this has me wondering how safe this will be...

Can anyone tell me how I can ground this cat5 cable, or is this something I don't really need to worry about?

I have my boys ready to come over and trench the run for me, but I am on hold for the moment due to worrying about lightning.

Any help/advice would be most appreciated, ty all.

 

[Harvey]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe cat5e and cat6 connectors are physically interchangeable, and the only difference between the cables is that cat6 is spec'd to allow greater bandwidth. You should be able to use cat6 cable in the setup you describe.

If you want to prevent damage from lightning (or gophers), you could bury the cable in grounded metal conduit.

This page may answer any other questions you have.

And my electric is a Les Paul.

 

[Gryz]

I think the OP is talking about RG-6, a type of coaxial cable. Not about cat-6, which is a type of twisted pair cable.

When I hear "coax cable" I always immediately think about Thin Ethernet. Thin Ethernet is 10 Mbps ethernet over coaxial cable. But when I read the wiki, it seems Thin Ethernet uses a different type of coax. Also, it would probably be very hard to find the right connectors and/or transceivers these days. And on top of that, 10 Mbps is a bit slow.

I'm afraid I don't have a real answer. I don't know much about electronics.
But I have a few thoughts.

When the cat-5 cable is inside a rubber/plastic hose, wouldn't the hose function as isolation ? Telephone lines and other wiring that is underground doesn't have special protection either, does it ? (Edit: Actually I am wrong. I just checked. My telephone line does have a special coating with metal around it. Like I said, I don't know much about electronics).

A couple of years ago, when working on my house, I did something very similar. I laid plastic electrical pipe between my house and my shed. With cat-5 cable in it. I never even thought about lightning. But then, my shed is only 8 meters or so from the house. And my house is high (8-10m or so) and has a lightning rod on it. And the pipe is burried ~1m deep. I really can't see that as a problem. But your situation (60 foot) might be different ?

 

[dave_the_nerd]

You can do this just fine - I have a couple rural friends that buried anywhere from 50-100 feet of Cat5 in a PVC pipe of something in order to get ethernet out in the barn, outbuilding, etc.

I've never thought about lightning. That would fry your networking gear pretty good. The way I see it, you could either:

1) Plug each end into a disposable $20 switch and uplink that into the rest of your network so the switch gets fried out instead.

2) use a surge protector with Ethernet surge protection.

3) Use fiberoptic instead of Cat5. (it's not conductive.)

Number 3 would be most expensive, but you can probably get some old commercial grade stuff for cheap on eBay.

When I was in preschool, my dad's Commodore got nuked in a lightning storm. We were playing F-15 Strike Eagle and smoke started coming out of the (external) power supply. One motherboard swap later, my dad became very, very paranoid about leaving computers plugged in during lightning storms. Still is.

 

[JackMDS]

http://www.l-com.com/surge-protector-cat6-data-line-lightning-surge-protectors

 

[notposting]

Also, Cat-5/6 hardware is not really interchangeable, the gauge is slightly thicker in 6...though I'm sure if you really worked at it, things could work for a bit.

Hose should work, assuming you have it already, otherwise some PVC conduit would be better. Water *will* get in no matter what, eventually the cable will probably break down, the true outdoor type stuff is "flooded" with water resistant goop.

But in general...yeah, the plan should work. I think if you get a direct lightning hit, your troubles will surpass the wire and whatever it's plugged into

 

[drebo]

Unless you plan to use a conduit, you'll need some gel-filled cable rated for direct burrial. If the cable is not exposed to the outside (it enters and exits the house under ground) you shouldn't need to worry about lightning. If it is a big concern, you should use shielded cable and ends and make sure it's grounded properly.

Honestly, I'd recommend a couple Nanostation M2s and just make a wireless bridge.

 

[mammador]

Superficially, there is no difference in Cat 5E, Cat 6 or Cat 6a cabling. RJ45 is RJ45, and it's only NIC capability that will prevent specific use.

Regarding the solution, outdoor Ethernet cabling can be used, which is weather resistant. You can also obtain special Ethernet cabling for underground/burial use. Fibre is an option, but it will be expensive.

 

[Mixolydian]

Since I can't use the RG6 (which would have been the easiest and safest)

MoCA?

 

[imagoon]

Superficially, there is no difference in Cat 5E, Cat 6 or Cat 6a cabling. RJ45 is RJ45, and it's only NIC capability that will prevent specific use.

Regarding the solution, outdoor Ethernet cabling can be used, which is weather resistant. You can also obtain special Ethernet cabling for underground/burial use. Fibre is an option, but it will be expensive.

Define "superficial." If you mean "8 wires in some cladding a with plastic ends" ill give that to you. Any more than that then I wouldn't agree.

In this case it would matter what he pulls because he has to terminate it on both ends. Using cat5e with cat6a terminations would be a problem in most cases. Fiber is more expensive but generally not excessively so if you get the older 100meg cable converter stuff. That flood cable is just mean. Getting that crap off your hands is fun...

 

[Mixolydian]

MoCA?

MoCA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_over_Coax_Alliance

http://www.amazon.com/Actiontec-Ethe...&keywords=MoCA

 

[mammador]

Define "superficial." If you mean "8 wires in some cladding a with plastic ends" ill give that to you. Any more than that then I wouldn't agree.

In this case it would matter what he pulls because he has to terminate it on both ends. Using cat5e with cat6a terminations would be a problem in most cases. Fiber is more expensive but generally not excessively so if you get the older 100meg cable converter stuff. That flood cable is just mean. Getting that crap off your hands is fun...

At first glance, can one tell the difference between a Cat 5E, Cat 6 and Cat 6a cable?

 

[Harvey]

Define "superficial."

Sorry. Couldn't resist. We now return you to the thread.

 

[frowertr]

Generally, linking two buildings should be done with fiber if possible. You can use fiber converters to convert the link (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...irtualParent=1) That will negate any lightning issues. If you can't do that, then you really need to use STP Cat5e/6 and use the appropriate shielded connectors. You will need to ground one end of the link if going this route as STP won't help without an earth ground.

Why do you want to use a garden hose instead of the normal Sch 40 gray PVC conduit which is what is used when electrical conductor is to be run outdoors? Ten foot lengths of Sch 40 is about $1.10 at your local home improvement box store so it can't be because of costs.

 

[Eug]

Here's what I did. I am not a network person, just a n00b DIYer.

1. I bought a 1000' spool of cheap direct burial CAT6 for much less than $100. I think I paid $60 or $80 or something, years ago. This is just the double sheathed stuff, and yeah it's low end Chinese stuff, but hey, it works. I've had mine buried for a couple of years now, and it's working fine. It has a regular inner sheath and then a thick UV-resistant outersheath that is also burial rated. It's not gel flooded though, since that's stuff is much more expensive (and flammable). However, since yours is only a 60 foot run, you could even do flooded for less than $100. (I had bought some once for a different spot. The gel in it is really gooey, but otherwise the cable is basically is the same as regular Ethernet cable.)

2. I used a Gigabit network surge protector, which cost $25, at the entry point to the house. I put a cheap switch behind it too. Dunno how much that will help, but that's what I did.

3. CAT6 is not necessarily thicker gauge than CAT5e. Like I said I'm no network guru, but AFAIK, there is no specified gauge actually. I know that some CAT6 is 23 AWG, but most of the stuff I've seen is actually 24 AWG, which is the same as most CAT5e.

 

[imagoon]

At first glance, can one tell the difference between a Cat 5E, Cat 6 and Cat 6a cable?

Yes most definitely.

Cat5(e) is the smallest of the bunch and is fairly flexible. Cat6 is about the size of an RJ59 cable typically and harder to bend because of the tighter twist/inch requirements and typically the center divider. Cat6a is about the size of RJ6, is much harder to bend because of the internal organizer.

 

[wirednuts]

At first glance, can one tell the difference between a Cat 5E, Cat 6 and Cat 6a cable?

yes

cat5e is moderately twisted

cat6 is very tightly twisted

cat6a is very tightly twisted with a plastic star pattern separator in the middle to keep the colors away from eachother, preventing alien crosstalk.

 

[drebo]

yes

cat5e is moderately twisted

cat6 is very tightly twisted

cat6a is very tightly twisted with a plastic star pattern separator in the middle to keep the colors away from eachother, preventing alien crosstalk.

CAT5E can have the riser "star" in it as well. It provides extra strength in the cable, for use when it goes long vertical distances.

CAT5E can also be the thicker gague (though it typically isn't.)

Also, the twists aren't really relevant either (the whole 5 twists per inch vs. 6 twists per inch thing). Really, the best way to tell the difference is to read the category rating on the sheath. Every brand will be slightly different.

Some brands have two of the four pairs a thicker gague...some have all. Some have the riser support, some don't. Some have a thick outer sheath, some don't.

Visually, it's extremely difficult to tell the difference, simply because there are so many variations between brands and styles.

The reality is that the price is so similar that for business use, using anything but CAT6 doesn't make sense. CAT6A can be good in a datacenter environment, but the fact is that 10GbE copper SFP+s are very rare and most of the ones around are not modular. And for access runs, they're generally too long for 10GbE over copper so no point. For home use, CAT5E is more than fine...very rarely will a home run be so long that gigabit will be difficult to achieve.

Regardless, I'd still recommend a wireless bridge in this case.

 

[Eug]

CAT5E can have the riser "star" in it as well. It provides extra strength in the cable, for use when it goes long vertical distances.

CAT5E can also be the thicker gague (though it typically isn't.)

Also, the twists aren't really relevant either (the whole 5 twists per inch vs. 6 twists per inch thing). Really, the best way to tell the difference is to read the category rating on the sheath. Every brand will be slightly different.

Some brands have two of the four pairs a thicker gague...some have all. Some have the riser support, some don't. Some have a thick outer sheath, some don't.

Visually, it's extremely difficult to tell the difference, simply because there are so many variations between brands and styles.

Heh. Yeah, every time I've bought CAT6 (not 6A) in bulk, it's included the plastic + shaped separator. One eBay guy I've dealt with only sells 23 AWG CAT6, and but I've only ever bought 24 AWG, from elsewhere.

IOW, the CAT6 I get is 24 AWG with the plastic separator. I wonder if it's easier/cheaper to achieve a CAT6 rating this way without having to resort to using more copper.

Also, this way I don't have to worry about getting connectors for 23 AWG wire for my DIY home use, as my house is a mix of CAT5e, CAT6, and even a bit of CAT5, all at 24 AWG.

The reality is that the price is so similar that for business use, using anything but CAT6 doesn't make sense. CAT6A can be good in a datacenter environment, but the fact is that 10GbE copper SFP+s are very rare and most of the ones around are not modular. And for access runs, they're generally too long for 10GbE over copper so no point. For home use, CAT5E is more than fine...very rarely will a home run be so long that gigabit will be difficult to achieve.

I wonder how bad cheap Chinese no-name CAT6 is. I'm convinced my Belden CAT5e is better than my no-name CAT6, but I have no data to base that on.

BTW, I note that Mellanox specs minimum CAT5e for 10GigE over short runs. Non-standard, but nonetheless, they support it.

 

[Cabletek]

Hey guys,

I want to run my existing internet connection from my house to my garage and I don't want to use wifi. I'm looking at about a 60 foot burial run.

At first I tried a test run by splitting the normal RG6 cable using a splitter and an old modem I had laying around. Unfortunately (and I didn't know this) my cable company (Charter Cable) will not allow 2 modems to be run from the same cable drop.

They wanted me to add a second account and charge me a second line, which I am not willing or able to do. I am disabled and on a fixed income so I decided to look for ways around this.

Since I can't use the RG6 (which would have been the easiest and safest) I now am now thinking about running Cat5 from the house router, all the way to the garage and buying a cheap router to connect inside there.

I have done some research and I think I will be ok using the regular (non-burrial) cat5 indoor cable, run through a garden hose and burried. The direct burrial cat5 is just too expensive for me and I already have a spool of regular indoor run cat5 to use so I am just going to use what I have here.

I think that running through the garden hose will be just fine as far as the elements are concerened, however I have been reading a lot about lightning strikes and this has me wondering how safe this will be...

Can anyone tell me how I can ground this cat5 cable, or is this something I don't really need to worry about?

I have my boys ready to come over and trench the run for me, but I am on hold for the moment due to worrying about lightning.

Any help/advice would be most appreciated, ty all.

Cat5 is normally unshielded cable so you would not bond it to a ground point.
IF you bought shielded cable, you can bond the shield to the power ground point if you have it available or you need to have an electrician install them to bond to.

Bonding to power in telecommunications wires has nothing to do with lightning protection however. It is done for the unlikely power violation [surge or wires rub through] to protect the house or in a poorly wired house to protect the plant [floating neutral, reverse wiring, etc..]. The the main reason it is done is to provide a path to ground for noise that gets on the shielding [this improves communication]. Neither of these are about a LIGHTNING strike which is substantially more power than the average power surge from power company. It may help in the case of lightning or it may not. Lighting will generally melt the RG6/Cat5 conductors lickedy split though, so any bonding will be minimally useful once the conductor to it is melted.

 

[frowertr]

Bonding to power in telecommunications wires has nothing to do with lightning protection though it is there for the unlikely power cable violation to protect the house or bad wired house to protect the plant. And the main reason its done is to provide a path to ground for noise that gets on the shielding. Neither of these are about a LIGHTNING strike which is substantially more power than the average power surge on power company plant. It may help in that case it may not. Lighting will generally melt the RG6/Cat5 conductors lickedy split though, so any bonding will be minimally useful once the conductor to it is melted.

Agreed. Bonding should take care of induced voltage due to lightning strikes in close proximation to the Cat5e.