Our Justice System at It's Very Best.

AaronP

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2000
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I think we need more vigilantes and less soft liberal judges. Here is an AP article from today.
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DUDLEY, Mass. ? Nancy Surprise left her 7-year-old son alone in the car one day while she ran into the post office, and returned to find a 280-pound man sitting on top of the boy.


But when the man was hauled into court, Surprise says, prosecutors insisted the best way to handle the case would be to make him go far, far away.

Prosecutors cut a deal in 1991 with the man, Nathaniel Bar-Jonah: no jail time, two years of probation, and he must keep his promise to move to Montana and live with his mother.

Bar-Jonah headed west. And it is there that he stands accused of crimes far more horrifying: He is suspected of butchering a little boy and serving the remains in dishes cooked up for his Montana neighbors.

"I wanted him locked up," Surprise says now. "If I knew then what I know now, I would have been arguing a lot more and made a lot more noise" about the plea bargain. She adds: "What could we do?"

That is a question that resonates as investigators wonder how Bar-Jonah -- a child predator who had already been convicted of attempted murder and locked up for a decade in a mental hospital -- was allowed to go free.

Montana officials say Massachusetts "dumped" Bar-Jonah on them without fully disclosing his history. Massachusetts denies that.

It was a history riddled with violence against children.

Bar-Jonah, 44, grew up as David P. Brown in the town of Webster. Neighbors described him as a strange boy fascinated by gore.

In 1974, a 17-year-old Brown, dressed as a policeman, ordered an 8-year-old boy into his car and beat and choked the youngster before driving him home. The boy later recognized his assailant working at a McDonald's. Brown pleaded guilty and received a year of probation.

In 1977, again dressed as a policeman, the 20-year-old Brown kidnapped two boys from a movie theater, ordered them to undress and began strangling them. One boy escaped. Brown was arrested after a chase, and authorities found the second boy in his trunk, handcuffed.

This time, Brown was sentenced to 18 to 20 years in prison for attempted murder and other charges. A psychiatrist pronounced him "dangerously disturbed," and in 1979 Brown was committed to Bridgewater State Hospital.

There, he changed his name to Nathaniel Benjamin Levi Bar-Jonah. He told friends he wanted a Jewish name so he would know how it felt to be persecuted. He also told therapists his fantasies.

"Mr. Brown's sexual fantasies ... outline methods of torture extending to dissection and cannibalism; he expresses a curiosity about the taste of human flesh," one therapist wrote in 1980.

In 1991, however, Superior Court Judge Walter E. Steele ruled that Bar-Jonah could leave without restrictions because the state had not proved that he was still dangerous. At that hearing, his family promised to take Bar-Jonah to Montana.

The judge, now retired, did not respond to requests for interviews.

Three weeks after Bar-Jonah's release from the state hospital, he walked to the Oxford post office and attacked Surprise's son.

The boy's mother dragged her son away and ran for help. Bar-Jonah was arrested on assault charges. He was freed without bail. Soon after, the Surprises reported seeing Bar-Jonah near their house, and prosecutors asked to have him returned to jail. A judge refused.

The next day, Dudley District Judge Sarkis Teshoian approved a deal sending Bar-Jonah to Montana and placing him on two years' probation.

The judge told The Associated Press that the deal was "an appropriate sentence based on the information" available to him at the time.

Worcester County District Attorney John Conte, whose office handled the Massachusetts cases against Bar-Jonah, said in response to written questions from the AP that prosecution "would have been difficult, if not impossible" because Surprise refused to let her son testify and because both failed to identify Bar-Jonah within hours of the incident.

"If Mrs. Surprise had been willing to permit her son to testify, I expect that the case would have gone to trial," Conte said. "We saw no cause to object to Mr. Bar-Jonah's transfer."

Surprise's lawyer, John W. Towns, disputed that account. He said Surprise was willing to testify but prosecutors wanted to make a deal.

Bar-Jonah's probation officer sent his file to Montana. But shortly after Bar-Jonah moved to Big Sky Country, Montana probation officer Michael Redpath sat down with him to review the file. He was stunned by what he heard.

"He divulged to me that he was in Bridgewater and all the other things," Redpath said. "I was taken aback by that, because it was not included in the packet of information."

Redpath's supervisor wrote to Massachusetts for more history and psychiatric records. But the Massachusetts probation office said it has no record of sending any additional information on Bar-Jonah.

In 1999, Bar-Jonah was arrested outside a Great Falls, Mont., elementary school, again dressed as a policeman. He was carrying a stun gun and pepper spray.

A search of his house yielded thousands of photographs of boys. Investigators also found encrypted writings, which the FBI decoded, about "little boy stew" and "lunch is served on the patio with roasted child," prosecutors said. Also found was a list of boys from Massachusetts and Great Falls.

Bar-Jonah was charged in December with kidnapping and murdering one of the Great Falls youngsters, 10-year-old Zachary Ramsay, who disappeared in 1996. He was also accused of sexually assaulting three other boys.

Prosecutors are seeking the death penalty. No trial date has been set in the murder case.

Don Vernay, one of Bar-Jonah's Montana attorneys, would not comment on the charges.

The gruesome case has led to interstate fingerpointing.

"Montana officials were unaware of what occurred in the Massachusetts courts and did not have a complete record to evaluate Bar-Jonah," the Montana Corrections Department said in a statement.

Coria Holland, spokeswoman for the Massachusetts Commissioner of Probation, countered: "If there were any problems, and the state of Montana felt that they didn't have adequate information, they wouldn't have accepted the case."

 

Tauren

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2001
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<<Nancy Surprise left her 7-year-old son alone in the car>>

You should have stopped there. The woman is obviously a dumb-ass and should not be allowed to propagate further.
 

AaronP

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2000
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this lady's parental ability is not the point of the article or the post.
 

Russ

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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Why am I not surprised that the genesis of this travesty is the state of Massachusetts?

Tauren,

Did the mother screw up? Yes. But, that's not the point of this thread.

Russ, NCNE


 

AppleTalking

Golden Member
Dec 15, 2000
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We definitely need stronger penalties for criminals. :|

Also, we need less finger-pointing and more efforts to stop incidents like this from ever happening. I hope they get the death penalty.

Nick
 

Buddhist

Golden Member
Jan 15, 2000
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&quot;<<Nancy Surprise left her 7-year-old son alone in the car>>

You should have stopped there. The woman is obviously a dumb-ass and should not be allowed to propagate further.&quot;

Actually I think the fact that you CAN'T leave your son alone in the car is the most f'ed up fact. What the hell is wrong with people? jesus.
 

Tauren

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2001
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I understand that, but I still find it disturbing that SHE was not reprimanded for her negligence and had the audacity to bitch about this man having access to her son. SHE is directly responsible for the safety of her son.
 

FiDo14DiDo

Senior member
Apr 7, 2000
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Incidents like these (and only these) make me glad that we have someone like Bush who push for the death penalty.
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
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<< Why am I not surprised that the genesis of this travesty is the state of Massachusetts?

Tauren,

Did the mother screw up? Yes. But, that's not the point of this thread.

Russ, NCNE
>>



Just curious what do you mean by that about Massachusetts?
 

AaronP

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2000
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ok GL, since about 1925.

its just a fact. A liberal judge is much more likely to make a decision like this than a conservative one.

Not to say that all liberal judges would do this, or that all conservative judges would lock the guy up forever. But that's just the way things shake out in our soceity.
 

GL

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Point me to the source for this fact other than some rhetoric that you've heard from fellow conservatives.
 

Tauren

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2001
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<<Actually I think the fact that you CAN'T leave your son alone in the car is the most f'ed up fact. What the hell is wrong with people? jesus.>>

The fact that you would consider yourself a decent parent if doing something like this, leads me to believe you either have no children or you are totally irresponsible in your parenting.

On the other hand I do agree with the sentiment of the statement. Society has alot of freaks running around.
 

Kosugi

Senior member
Jan 9, 2001
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Russ,


Seriously disturbed people can be found in any state. Look at the woman who today killed her 5 children in Texas. Or Dahmer in Wisconsin (or was it Minnesota).

The botched court systems of this nation are at fault. This guy should have been red flagged as deranged, but obviously their record keeping in Mass is not up to par.

But the same can be said for the FBI. I recently read a review of FBI documentation filing systems, and believe it or not, many of their cases exist in print alone, and not in electronic form. The goverment is going to pony up 350 million for an overhaul of the FBI information systems.

It sounds like Mass could use some of that money to overhaul their systems too!
 

frizzlefry

Golden Member
May 14, 2001
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<< I understand that, but I still find it disturbing that SHE was not reprimanded for her negligence and had the audacity to bitch about this man having access to her son. SHE is directly responsible for the safety of her son. >>



How is that negligence? Is leaving a god in your car while you run into the post office also considered negligence? Although the article doesn't state how long she was in the post office, this is not considered negligence.

The child was in no was neglected. Woman was only trying to run a quick errand.
 

Tauren

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2001
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<<How is that negligence? Is leaving a god in your car while you run into the post office also considered negligence? Although the article doesn't state how long she was in the post office, this is not considered negligence.>>

You are welcome to read the above post by me. If you think that is good parenting, I am completely appalled.
 

Buddhist

Golden Member
Jan 15, 2000
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&quot;The fact that you would consider yourself a decent parent if doing something like this, leads me to believe you either have no children or you are totally irresponsible in your parenting.&quot;

Firstly, i never implied nor indicated that that would be the action i would undertake. Secondly, i am not a parent.

Thirdly, where i grew up in, Japan, we never had to worry about these kinds of things happening except for in extremely rare cases. Parents do not have to go around in fear of their child being murderered or kidnapped as much as they do here in the US.

I still think its sad that anyone anywhere in the world would have to fear for their childs life if they had to leave them alone for five minutes. Just think about the implications of this fact in a child maturing, and what it also says about our society. :(
 

Russ

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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<< Seriously disturbed people can be found in any state. >>



Duh.



<< It sounds like Mass could use some of that money to overhaul their systems too! >>



Which was my point. Note the use of the word &quot;travesty&quot;, as in of justice, not the word &quot;tragedy&quot; as in inference that only MA could produce a psycho.

Massachusetts is one of the most liberal states in the country. This is just one more example of the manifestation and consequences of that liberalism.

Russ, NCNE
 

GL

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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All you armchair justices get off your high horses and read the facts. None of the judges even had all the facts available to them at the time. This is a failure of inter-judicial communication rather than political ideology.
 

AaronP

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2000
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ok GL, say you went on trial for murder, who would you rather have as the judge in your case, Antonin Scalia or Ruth Bader Gizburg?
 

GL

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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I suppose they're from different political persuasions? I wouldn't know, I'm Canadian and don't keep up with judges' political colours. And again, I ask you what does being liberal have anything to do with being leniant? Is it sort of like the equally idiotic liberal rhetoric that being conservative makes you a greedy bastard?
 

Texmaster

Banned
Jun 5, 2001
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The key word in that story is Massachusetts

The same state that used taxpayers money to give a city employee who was undergoing a sex change his/her/whatever bathroom because they didnt feel comfortable in either.
 

AaronP

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2000
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ITS NOT ABOUT THE DAMN MOTHER. JEEZ. THIS THREAD WAS NOT MEANT TO BE ABOUT PARENTING!