Our health care system delivers another fantastic metric.

[senseamp]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015...ncy-idUSKCN0T10LO20151112#fE4cLCCbtrgVEwhu.97

Women are twice as likely to die from causes related to pregnancy or childbirth in the United States than in Canada, a new global survey of maternal mortality published by the United Nations and the World Bank showed on Thursday.
The United States was also one of only 13 countries to have worse rates of maternal mortality in 2015 than in 1990 - a group that also includes North Korea, Zimbabwe and Venezuela.

"Socialist" health care twice as good as "Capitalist" at keeping pregnant women from dying for half the price.

 

[Indus]

People often say they have to wait longer under socialism to see doctors.

But I experienced this in the United States.. I needed an endocronologist and I was put on an 8 month wait.

Also my friend who is in Canada needed CABG surgery. He went in on a Monday for a checkup, they found the problem, told him to stay in the hospital, operated on him Tuesday and he was back home on Friday.

Not to mention prescription drugs are much cheaper in Canada than they are in the USA.

Thank you capitalism and price gouging.

 

[Newell Steamer]

Imagine that; paying an arm and a leg for health care, and they can't even keep you alive.

 

[rudder]

Wow.... that link is so chocked full of data I could easily see where you would draw your conclusion.

Care to include the possible reasons behind this data or is that too troublesome? I would say it is a safe bet to say that any pregnant woman who listens to her ob/gyn, goes to regularly scheduled appointments, etc will have near zero issues with her pregnancy (not factoring in genetic predispositions). Now on the flip side you have the pregnant woman who smokes, drinks, or takes who knows what will likely have a harder pregnancy. I missed the part of the article that factored this and other details into the equation.

The only thing I can think of that would otherwise have a negative effect on the health of a pregnant woman has more to do with litigation. In some areas due to malpractice rates you may be hard pressed to find an ob/gyn. Lack of specialized care could be in an issue. Ob/Gyn's have some of the highest malpractice premiums in the industry... throw in the shit reimbursment rates that is obamacare and these doctors simply go out of the baby delivery business.

 

[senseamp]

So you are saying American women are just worse than Canadian ones, and it's not the health care system? Even American woman who listens to her OB/GYN will result in a bill that is several times more than what it costs in Canada.

 

[MajinCry]

In my experience, as a guy that's had chronic nausea since the age of late 14, for five years now, socialist healthcare is pretty damn sweet.

It's no surprise that when a Pay4Treatment approach is taken towards healthcare, people will suffer much worse. Especially when everybody's poor, 'cept for the vocal rich.

 

[michal1980]

data needs to be normalized to account for diversity, and obesity, and other factors, otherwise you are comparing two different groups of people.

 

[senseamp]

Twice the death at at least twice the cost. That's the result. You can blame the people instead of health care system if you want to. Between this and the middle aged white death rate rising, we are starting to see indicators of a failed health care system. This is something that post-Soviet republics experienced in the 90s. Death rates in young and middle aged people are not supposed to increase if the health care system is functioning.

 

[michal1980]

Twice the death at at least twice the cost. That's the result. You can blame the people instead of health care system if you want to. Between this and the middle aged white death rate rising, we are starting to see indicators of a failed health care system. This is something that post-Soviet republics experienced in the 90s. Death rates in young and middle aged people are not supposed to increase if the health care system is functioning.

USA women obesity rates are roughly 50% higher then Canada, fatter women have more problems in giving birth. fatter people also require more care.

 

[Exterous]

So the washington post did a story related to this last year with some more worthwhile reporting:

The United States is one of just eight countries to see a rise in maternal mortality over the past decade, said researchers for the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington

One reason for the rise is an improvement in how maternal deaths are reported, though Kassebaum said the numbers are still likely underreported and mischaracterized in the codings included on death certificates.

Equally significant is an increase in the number of pregnant women who have diseases that contribute to a higher-risk pregnancy, such as hypertension and diabetes, said Kassebaum. He said there also has been an increase in mothers whose pregnancies are riskier because of conditions like heart or neurological diseases who might have died in an earlier era but who now are surviving into adulthood.

In the world as a whole, fully half the maternal deaths happen more than 24 hours after childbirth — up to a year later. It’s a little higher in the United States, 55 percent.

Kassebaum said that is because of improved American techniques for treating conditions that cause maternal deaths during childbirth itself, such as obstructed labor and hemorraging.

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(14)60696-6/fulltext

I also couldn't find any data on way or the other but I wonder if the increase in using specialized fertilization techniques has increased the numbers as we try and enable older\people with other complications to be able to have children

People often say they have to wait longer under socialism to see doctors.

But I experienced this in the United States.. I needed an endocronologist and I was put on an 8 month wait.

Also my friend who is in Canada needed CABG surgery. He went in on a Monday for a checkup, they found the problem, told him to stay in the hospital, operated on him Tuesday and he was back home on Friday.

And I went in for a stomach ache and went from the Dr. office straight to the ultrasound techs at the hospital and then right in to surgery for an appendectomy. Damn those capitalist wait times! I mean its super cool that you use anecdotal evidence and all but statistics are more helpful to meaningful discussion

 

[Meghan54]

Also my friend who is in Canada needed CABG surgery. He went in on a Monday for a checkup, they found the problem, told him to stay in the hospital, operated on him Tuesday and he was back home on Friday.

I don't think your friend had a CABG done and got released 3 days after the surgery....open heart surgery is a bit more intensive to allow a 3 day release time after surgery. Maybe you're talking about a stint being put in place, perhaps?

From my experience working as an RN in several cardiovascular/open heart surgical ICU's, it takes at least a day to wean a fresh CABG post-op patient off the ventilator, much less get their vitals stable. We kept fresh post-ops in the ICU for 3 days typically, then stepped them down to our "step down ICU", where they spent about a week before getting moved to the floor.

I cannot fathom how it could be done in 3 days. They're waaaay too unstable for the first few days to move anywhere.

 

[who?]

I worked with a guy who arrived at the hospital at 3pm with chest pains and twelve hours later had had an ekg, an angiogram and an emergency bypass which he woke up from at 3am. In Arkansas.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I don't think your friend had a CABG done and got released 3 days after the surgery....open heart surgery is a bit more intensive to allow a 3 day release time after surgery. Maybe you're talking about a stint being put in place, perhaps?

From my experience working as an RN in several cardiovascular/open heart surgical ICU's, it takes at least a day to wean a fresh CABG post-op patient off the ventilator, much less get their vitals stable. We kept fresh post-ops in the ICU for 3 days typically, then stepped them down to our "step down ICU", where they spent about a week before getting moved to the floor.

I cannot fathom how it could be done in 3 days. They're waaaay too unstable for the first few days to move anywhere.

3 days does sound extreme, however I had OHS in 1994, with a atrial pacer put in. The surgery was on a Monday and I was released that Friday. But I did feel really good and was more than ready to get home. I was 30 at the time, and in prime physical condition, not pro-athlete, but I was 'in-shape' and that shape was not round.

 

[glenn1]

In my experience, as a guy that's had chronic nausea since the age of late 14, for five years now, socialist healthcare is pretty damn sweet.

It's no surprise that when a Pay4Treatment approach is taken towards healthcare, people will suffer much worse. Especially when everybody's poor, 'cept for the vocal rich.

Yeah, fancy that someone getting way more than they put in under a socialist healthcare would think it was "pretty damn sweet." Those that are on the receiving end of the loot always think it's a great system. Funny how those who aren't in a socialist system but want to be, never pony up the money for it unless and until absolutely forced to by law because "collective action problem." Which means if they can't collectively impose action on rich people to pay for all of it, that's a problem because they sure as shit aren't going to volunteer.

 

[Phynaz]

USA women obesity rates are roughly 50% higher then Canada, fatter women have more problems in giving birth. fatter people also require more care.

Uh-oh, now you brought logic into this. That is strictly forbidden in P&N.

 

[MajinCry]

Yeah, fancy that someone getting way more than they put in under a socialist healthcare would think it was "pretty damn sweet." Those that are on the receiving end of the loot always think it's a great system. Funny how those who aren't in a socialist system but want to be, never pony up the money for it unless and until absolutely forced to by law because "collective action problem." Which means if they can't collectively impose action on rich people to pay for all of it, that's a problem because they sure as shit aren't going to volunteer.

...Socialist healthcare is where everybody chips in. Naturally, those with greater affluence give a larger sum (though not a much bigger pecentage of their income) to benefit those who have little to spare.

The alternative is capitalist healthcare, where those with little to spare die. Can't afford treatment? Tough luck. Can't afford the cure? Sucks to be you. Broke and diseased? Suck it up.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Uh-oh, now you brought logic into this. That is strictly forbidden in P&N.

I gotta say, this is a first, someone claiming that michy1980 is bringing logic into any argument.

 

[glenn1]

...Socialist healthcare is where everybody chips in. Naturally, those with greater affluence give a larger sum (though not a much bigger pecentage of their income) to benefit those who have little to spare.

The alternative is capitalist healthcare, where those with little to spare die. Can't afford treatment? Tough luck. Can't afford the cure? Sucks to be you. Broke and diseased? Suck it up.

Everyone dies eventually whether rich or poor. Why should I pay you for the privilege when your bad choices were likely a huge factor in your health to begin with? If you can't afford payment, ask for charity from those progressives who are sympathetic to your plight and could choose to donate without the coercion of tax law but choose not to.

 

[Meghan54]

3 days does sound extreme, however I had OHS in 1994, with a atrial pacer put in. The surgery was on a Monday and I was released that Friday. But I did feel really good and was more than ready to get home. I was 30 at the time, and in prime physical condition, not pro-athlete, but I was 'in-shape' and that shape was not round.

Putting in a pacemaker, which I've assisted in several times, is much less invasive a surgery vs. a CABG in which your chest is literally split wide open, you're essentially killed (heart completely stopped while you're kept alive on a heart bypass machine, which itself can cause serious complications, not to mention post-pump psychosis) then revived, your leg is split open from groin to ankle to harvest the saphenous vein deep inside for the CABG graft(s).

Very, very different surgeries and lengths of recovery. Vastly different.

 

[senseamp]

Healthy, uncomplicated birth costs 2+ times more in the US than it does in Canada. So there is more to this than just unhealthy Americans.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

People often say they have to wait longer under socialism to see doctors.

But I experienced this in the United States.. I needed an endocronologist and I was put on an 8 month wait.

Not really starting an argument here - but when people say "How long it takes to see a doctor", I believe they are referring to seeing a doctor that will fix their open wounds (e.g. Emergency-Room, Intensive Care, etc...). They aren't referring to your typical "doctor visits"/consultations that are scheduled. So I don't really think that's a fair comparison.

Though I will definitely admit, I have to schedule doc visits with my neurologist ~4+ months in advance, and that's only for a crappy appointment. If you want a free choice of open time to freely pick you have to schedule ~6 months out.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Putting in a pacemaker, which I've assisted in several times, is much less invasive a surgery vs. a CABG in which your chest is literally split wide open, you're essentially killed (heart completely stopped while you're kept alive on a heart bypass machine, which itself can cause serious complications, not to mention post-pump psychosis) then revived, your leg is split open from groin to ankle to harvest the saphenous vein deep inside for the CABG graft(s).

Very, very different surgeries and lengths of recovery. Vastly different.

Well they did split my chest to get to the hole between my ventricles. Hence the OHS in my post. I've had TGV, and OHS 2x, just had my first ablation this year. My Mustard was done in 1965, still a relatively new procedure at that point. OHS in 1970 and again in 1994. So my chest has been split open a few times for surgery.

 

[cbrunny]

Single-Payer Universal for the win! Again! As usual!



Hospitals with shareholders - makes no sense.

 

[cbrunny]

Healthy, uncomplicated birth costs 2+ times more in the US than it does in Canada. So there is more to this than just unhealthy Americans.

Giving birth... everyone (female) does it, pretty much. It's the only thing that you're basically GUARANTEED to do. No point in being price competitive. That doesn't make your hospital's shareholders any money. Charge 20,000 to give birth, and literally everyone will be forced to pay it (or insurance - either way, shareholders get their dough).

For-profit healthcare makes no sense.

 

[sm625]

Could it be that women in the US are so zombied out by Candy Crush that they forget to go to the hospital when they go into labor until it is too late and too many complications result from this?