Ouch! Car and driver rips the Audi TT a new one.

[StageLeft]

I hope NFS4 didn't post this already :| link

350Z vs Mach 1 (mustang) vs TT vs Honda S2000.

The 350z won, Mach1 got 2nd, followed by S2k and TT.

Not surprisingly the 180 TT got put down at every corner (pun intended by skoorb). I laughed reading it. Some nice quotes:

The TT's internally combusted laziness shows up in other ways. Blip the throttle during a downshift, for example, and the engine gives a half-hearted answer...The sloping roofline is such that rear-seat riders will have to visit the guillotine first to be comfortable...The nifty aluminum beams of the center console were also cited by name in the logbook. They intrude enough to be constantly polished by the driver's right leg. After a few hours, numbness sets in...Convex consoles present an ergonomic problem we've noted in other Audis, especially the A4. Perhaps Audi's seat testers have an extra joint between their knees and ankles that lets their legs bend around obstructions.

Lows: Not enough go, stop, or steer.

The Verdict: An exercise in artistry that loses out to real cars.

Then we had some nice quotes for the S2000:

The hardtop also bottles up the S2000's considerable mechanical racket, noise that normally vents to the atmosphere like so much greenhouse gas. Clutch slipping, gears gnashing, rear end singing, tires moaning, wind noise from an imperfect header seal ? the accumulated decibels rattle around inside doing a Gene Krupa riff on your eardrums...Heck, a few runs up and down the S2000's digital rev counter is the next best thing to being trackside at a World Superbike race. But pull five hours on the freeway with that DOHC 16-valve 2.0-liter beehive turning 4500 to 5000 rpm, and the S2000 becomes a fuel-injected prescription for Advil...Our own 0-to-60 time of 6.3 seconds was set with a hole shot just south of the redline on a car with only 369 miles on the odo, but that's behavior reserved for people who can do clutch changes on their lunch hour. Regular Joes can expect 60 mph to arrive closer to the 7.6 seconds of the S2000's 5-to-60-mph time, the second-slowest rolling start ahead of the Audi.

 

[Lonyo]

I despise the Audi TT, its looks and everything it is. It should be stopped from production

On another note, didn't they have to redesign it with rear 'wings' because of problems they had?

 

[StageLeft]

I don't know a heck of a lot about it. I'm sure the drive is nice, but $30+k for a little "sports car" with a woefully inadequate 180 HP is not my idea of a good time.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I think the TT is beautiful, but it is definitely more show than go, and I am too tall even to sit in one, so . . . I thought it was especially silly that, in MI:2, they had a chase scene with Tom Cruise and Thandie Newton in, respectively, a 911 and a TT - tough to see how that would be much of a race.

 

[BigSmooth]

I'm surprised they even included the TT in that group - it seems woefully out of place as it is more of a "style" car than a pure sports car like the other 3. And then they use a model with the base engine...? I guess the 225hp engine would have raised the price too much.

However, even with the bigger engine it would have looked woefully slow and soft next to the other 3 cars.

 

[teddymines]

Reading C&D always makes me laugh: "The view forward will be familiar to operators of a machine-gun pillbox."

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: bigsmooth
I'm surprised they even included the TT in that group - it seems woefully out of place as it is more of a "style" car than a pure sports car like the other 3. And then they use a model with the base engine...? I guess the 225hp engine would have raised the price too much.

However, even with the bigger engine it would have looked woefully slow and soft next to the other 3 cars.

Agreed, the TT is woefully outclassed (performance wise) by the other three.

Gorgeous car, but in base/stock form it has no balls.

Now swap in a twin turb VR6...

One damn fast Audi



Viper GTS

 

[loup garou]

Originally posted by: Lonyo
On another note, didn't they have to redesign it with rear 'wings' because of problems they had?

Yep, the design of the car acts like a big wing, providing enough lift to actually cause the driver to lose control at high speeds. After the first year, TTs came with a spoiler (actually several, IIRC). My roomate has a first year 180hp one, and Audi installed an underbody spoiler for him so as not to ruin the smooth lines of the car with a tail spoiler.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: werk

Originally posted by: Lonyo
On another note, didn't they have to redesign it with rear 'wings' because of problems they had?

Yep, the design of the car acts like a big wing, providing enough lift to actually cause the driver to lose control at high speeds. After the first year, TTs came with a spoiler (actually several, IIRC). My roomate has a first year 180hp one, and Audi installed an underbody spoiler for him so as not to ruin the smooth lines of the car with a tail spoiler.

So who the hell came up with that bright idea about designing the car to look like a freaking wing?!

 

[Lonyo]

The Audi TT looks so disgusting. Why do people think all these new look cars look nice? What happened to decent looks? Nissan Skyline GTR, old style Totota MR2, Ford Capri, BMW M5, Lister Storm. What happened to classic, nice looking designs?!

 

[arcain]

Originally posted by: Lonyo

On another note, didn't they have to redesign it with rear 'wings' because of problems they had?

The voluntary recall added a small spoiler on the tail, and replaced the front control arms with new ones that have a plastic bushing to make it less responsive. The problems were generally attributed to user error at high speeds. The changes made dumbed down the car. The MK1 control arms are hard to find and highly covetted. They certainly would have given it more "steer".

 

[rayma2]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: bigsmooth
I'm surprised they even included the TT in that group - it seems woefully out of place as it is more of a "style" car than a pure sports car like the other 3. And then they use a model with the base engine...? I guess the 225hp engine would have raised the price too much.

However, even with the bigger engine it would have looked woefully slow and soft next to the other 3 cars.

Agreed, the TT is woefully outclassed (performance wise) by the other three.

Gorgeous car, but in base/stock form it has no balls.

Now swap in a twin turb VR6...

One damn fast Audi



Viper GTS

I would enjoy driving that..

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Lonyo
The Audi TT looks so disgusting. Why do people think all these new look cars look nice? What happened to decent looks? Nissan Skyline GTR, old style Totota MR2, Ford Capri, BMW M5, Lister Storm. What happened to classic, nice looking designs?!

This is totally subjective, and I can't see calling any particular design "disgusting," especially not one as widely acclaimed as the TT. I like some of the cars you have mentioned, but you are on your own on the Skyline GTR, which to me is a rather bloated, generic-looking Japanese pony car (albeit one that performs well), and the Lister Storm, which looks to me like something penned by a sexually-frustrated junior high school student during detention.

To each his own, and you have every bit the same right to like these cars as I have to like the 360 Modena, Porsche 993, and TT.

 

[arcain]

Originally posted by: werk

Originally posted by: Lonyo
On another note, didn't they have to redesign it with rear 'wings' because of problems they had?

Yep, the design of the car acts like a big wing, providing enough lift to actually cause the driver to lose control at high speeds. After the first year, TTs came with a spoiler (actually several, IIRC). My roomate has a first year 180hp one, and Audi installed an underbody spoiler for him so as not to ruin the smooth lines of the car with a tail spoiler.

The car has always had aerodynamic related underbody panels. Chances are no additionally underbody spoiler was added, and only his control arms were changed out.

 

[Hammer]

boo audi!

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: arcain

Originally posted by: Lonyo

On another note, didn't they have to redesign it with rear 'wings' because of problems they had?

The voluntary recall added a small spoiler on the tail, and replaced the front control arms with new ones that have a plastic bushing to make it less responsive. The problems were generally attributed to user error at high speeds. The changes made dumbed down the car. The MK1 control arms are hard to find and highly covetted. They certainly would have given it more "steer".

The wing is definitely a shame, and ruins the lines of the car more or less completely. Ah well.

 

[arcain]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: werk

Originally posted by: Lonyo
On another note, didn't they have to redesign it with rear 'wings' because of problems they had?

Yep, the design of the car acts like a big wing, providing enough lift to actually cause the driver to lose control at high speeds. After the first year, TTs came with a spoiler (actually several, IIRC). My roomate has a first year 180hp one, and Audi installed an underbody spoiler for him so as not to ruin the smooth lines of the car with a tail spoiler.

So who the hell came up with that bright idea about designing the car to look like a freaking wing?!

A wing has a larger surface area on the top side than the bottom side, thus causing the air to travel a greater distance when moving over the top surface compared to the bottom surface. The vast majority of cars follow that description and produce lift. The lift produced is also proportional to the speed of the wing. Thus the faster you go, the more lift you create. Most cars don't go fast enough to create a problematic amount of lift.

More obviously, all TTs get a small rear spoiler mounted to the decklid in a move aimed at reducing lift on the rear axle at high speeds. The TT has 148 pounds of lift at the rear axle at 125 mph without the spoiler, but only a 53-pound lift when the spoiler is fitted. By comparison, the BMW Z3 coupe generates 64 pounds of lift at 125 mph; the Mercedes-Benz SLK, 104 pounds of lift; and the Porsche Boxster, 68 pounds of lift.

http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/features/2000/February/200002_feature_audi_tt.xml

Spoilers and wings can reduce lift. A spoiler reduces lift by generating drag, and a car wing reduces lift because it is an "upside down" plane wing and actively generates negative lift.

 

[Chadder007]

Originally posted by: Lonyo
The Audi TT looks so disgusting. Why do people think all these new look cars look nice? What happened to decent looks? Nissan Skyline GTR, old style Totota MR2, Ford Capri, BMW M5, Lister Storm. What happened to classic, nice looking designs?!

Hey man...all I can say is sh!$ happens.

 

[Zipp]

As far as looks goes,I would take the TT over the Honda.

Of those four though,if I had a choice to own one of them...I would take the Stang.

 

[NFS4]

The only thing I like about the TT is the interior...droooool

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Originally posted by: Lonyo
The Audi TT looks so disgusting. Why do people think all these new look cars look nice? What happened to decent looks? Nissan Skyline GTR, old style Totota MR2, Ford Capri, BMW M5, Lister Storm. What happened to classic, nice looking designs?!

Skyline GTR is ugly (Silvia model is another story). M5 is awesome. MR2 is okay. Audi TT is ugly as hell, despite the artistic awards it gets. It's avant garde and that's it.

 

[BigSmooth]

Originally posted by: NFS4
The only thing I like about the TT is the interior...droooool

It looks awesome, but according to C&D it's uncomfortable as all hell.

 

[geno]

Just cause it's an Audi doesn't mean it's godlike

 

[arcain]

Originally posted by: bigsmooth

Originally posted by: NFS4
The only thing I like about the TT is the interior...droooool

It looks awesome, but according to C&D it's uncomfortable as all hell.

There are certain "quirks", I guess but it isn't "uncomfortable as hell" for me. The C&D excerpt is pretty one sided.

1. Rear-seat headroom. Like many other 2+2 coupes there is very little headroom in the back. In fact the manual says it is only for those under 4 foot 11. Realistically it probably wouldn't be used much. But probably lowers insurance, and if in a pinch have 2 cramped seats is better than none.
2. Aluminum beams on center console. They do protude out, and my right knee does lean against it. But I don't really find it problematic. It's not wearing a hole in my pants and I find myself using it as support when making hard left turns.
3. Convex consoles. Haha.. this one I'm amused by. If your knee is bumping into the console, scoot the seat back. If you're not going to put anybody in the back seat anyways(that hole guillotine thing), you might as well scoot the seat all the way back.

None of those points are (really) problems for me. My only "uncomfortable interior" complaint is that the front seats don't have as much lumbar support as I would like sometimes.

Originally posted by: Don_Vito
I think the TT is beautiful, but it is definitely more show than go, and I am too tall even to sit in one, so . . .

Have you tried? There is a surprising amount of headroom in one. The curved roof gives it more room inside (once you get in through the low door). It has more headroom than the S4 (and I'd guess the last gen A4). My friend who is 6' 5" has no problems in the passenger seat.

 

[NFS4]

WAIT A SEC!!!!!!

They test the BASE Audi TT with the BASE 180HP instead of the TURBO 225HP version with AWD and they have the NERVE to call it slow and porky???

I call foul on this one!!!:|

The '03 model ONLY comes with the 225HP engine anyway. I say C&D f*&ked up big time with this one.