OT: "New" cruncher - working again with old CPU, still need advice

ProviaFan

Lifer
Mar 17, 2001
14,993
1
0
29-Jan-2003: Edit for a different question - see my latest post at the end
28-Jan-2003: Edit for yet another question - see the end of the thread.

See post below...

:(

Edit for new question: How the **** do you get thermal pads off old heatsinks. I am going to reinstall my old processor, but the thermal pad that is/was on the corresponding heatsink is not coming off with plain ol' isoprophyl (sp?) alcohol. My mom has some "Goo Gone" stuff that she thinks might work, but I'm not sure if it's safe to use on the heatsink. Any suggestions?
 

Swanny

Diamond Member
Mar 29, 2001
7,456
0
76
Good luck lapping. Maybe call some friends to see if they have extra sandpaper?
 

ProviaFan

Lifer
Mar 17, 2001
14,993
1
0
Originally posted by: Swanny
Maybe call some friends to see if they have extra sandpaper?
Good idea, if only I had any friends who were computer geeks like me, let alone ones who might have sandpaper. :(

Anyway, I decided to move on to 600 grit, and now I'm finishing up with the 800. It's still got these teeny little sanding marks from the 800 grit, but those should go away once I start with the 1500 here in a minute. :)
 

mastertech01

Moderator Emeritus Elite Member
Nov 13, 1999
11,875
282
126
I started and finished with 2000 grit. It takes a while but that shine! Like a Jar head's, err I mean a Marine's belt buckle. ;)
 

ProviaFan

Lifer
Mar 17, 2001
14,993
1
0
Originally posted by: mastertech01
I started and finished with 2000 grit. It takes a while but that shine! Like a Jar head's, err I mean a Marine's belt buckle. ;)
LOL. :)

I don't think I'd have the patience to go all the way through with 2000 grit sandpaper (or the money, for that matter! the stuff isn't cheap). Right now I'm half of the way through my 5 pack of 1500 grit sandpaper, and this sucker is starting to look like it's going to be a decent mirror. :p
 

deerslayer

Lifer
Jan 15, 2001
10,153
0
76
I've never lapped a heatsink....does it make that much difference? My SLK800 came today along with a YS Tech Adjustable 80mm fan :) Dropped my full load temps to 40C from about 51 or 52C with the GC68, and it's pretty warm in my room :D

Also finished throwing together another cruncher. Put my old duron back to work, but only oc'ed to 800 this time. I don't think the ECS mobo will handle 150fsb with the cheepo bios :( Might have to get me one of those 1700 tbreds soon if they stay so cheap!!!!!! :D
 

ProviaFan

Lifer
Mar 17, 2001
14,993
1
0
Well, I got the heatsink lapped ok, and everything seemed to be fine as I installed it (it was my first time putting on a heatsink on a Socket A processor, so I might have screwed it up, but I don't think so). Anyway, I set the jumper to 133MHz, made sure all cables were properly connected, and tried to boot. The system would turn on, but there was no power LED (though the HDD LED was constantly on), and the CDRW and DVDROM drive lights would flash as they normally do when the computer first starts, but there would be no signal from the monitor. There were no beeps from the speaker, either. I tried resetting the CMOS, but it still won't boot. Do you have any more suggestions? Thanks.
 

ProviaFan

Lifer
Mar 17, 2001
14,993
1
0
Originally posted by: mechBgon
More system information please :)
LOL, you could just look in my system rig profile..oh well. ;)

AMD Athlon XP 1700+ (formerly Duron 800MHz)
Gigabyte GA-7ZXE (with BIOS that supports Athlon XP chips)
512MB PC/133 SDRAM
2 IDE hard disks
IDE CD-RW and DVD-ROM
ATI Radeon SDR PCI 32MB
Creative Labs Sound Blaster Live! Value
SIIG PCI IDE controller (for zip drive)
D-Link DFE-530TX+ (ethernet)
Plus all the other usual peripherals that a system could have (keyboard, mouse, floppy, monitor, CF card reader)
 

RustyNale

Platinum Member
Apr 14, 2001
2,220
0
0
Try setting the jumper to 100mhz, see if it boots. Is yours one of those that needs a fan hooked up to the mobo to enable it to run?
 

mechBgon

Super Moderator<br>Elite Member
Oct 31, 1999
30,699
1
0
Oops, didn't realize it was in the rigs list already :D What's the heatsink/fan unit, by the way?

Firstly: thermal contact. One hangup that people are having a lot is that they put on their heatsinks backwards. On an older board without rapid shutdown circuitry, you can fry your CPU this way. Look at Figures 7, 13 and 14 of this illustrated PDF and note the step in the CPU base, and the reason that it's got a step in it. The heatsink shouldn't make contact with anything but the CPU core and the compressible cornerpads or you're in Big Trouble :Q

Second: power supply. You're running quite a bit of gear, so hopefully it's at least a quality-name AND recent-model 300W or higher? :) I mean like an Antec SL300 or Antec TruePower, Sparkle Power FSP300 or 350 series, Enermax 365-series or higher, Heroichi 300W+, something like that. Generics... eeek! :Q
 

ProviaFan

Lifer
Mar 17, 2001
14,993
1
0
Rusty: the first time I attempted to boot the system, I mistakenly had the jumper set for 100MHz.

MechBgon: I'm using a Thermaltake Volcano 7; the plug for the fan power goes to a connection from the power supply, and the separate single-wire fan speed monitor cable goes to the CPU fan plug on the motherboard. Yes, the heatsink is going on the right way, and I didn't hear any big cracks when applying it, or smell any smoke when the system was booted, so I think that part is ok.

At this point the first thing I'm going to try is unplugging "unnecessary" stuff (CDRW, Zip, DVDROM, etc.) to see where that gets me.
 

ProviaFan

Lifer
Mar 17, 2001
14,993
1
0
Ok, I unplugged the CDRW, DVDROM, and Zip drives, to no effect. If you have any more suggestions, I'd love to hear them. At this time, however, I'm getting tired, so I'll check back in the morning to see if there's anything new.

Thanks again, team mates, for all the suggestions you've offered so far. :)
 

RustyNale

Platinum Member
Apr 14, 2001
2,220
0
0
Stupid question here, have you made sure that you have the correct # of standoffs for your mobo? And that they're placed correctly?

And some ramdom thoughts...
You could try laying the mobo w/ cpu, and ram outside the case, hooking up the psu and seeing if it started.

Doublecheck that the jumper for your bios is set correctly---I say this as the epox 8kha+ came through with the manual showing the bios jumper set the wrong way from what it should be...

Make sure your ram is seated completely---you could even try starting the mobo without it, see what beep codes you get.

Take a look at your psu mobo connector--see if any of the ends look wrong (color, shape, etc)

Last but not least, stick your Duron back in, if it starts you may have a bad cpu :(
 

mechBgon

Super Moderator<br>Elite Member
Oct 31, 1999
30,699
1
0
Originally posted by: jliechty
Rusty: the first time I attempted to boot the system, I mistakenly had the jumper set for 100MHz.

MechBgon: I'm using a Thermaltake Volcano 7; the plug for the fan power goes to a connection from the power supply, and the separate single-wire fan speed monitor cable goes to the CPU fan plug on the motherboard. Yes, the heatsink is going on the right way, and I didn't hear any big cracks when applying it, or smell any smoke when the system was booted, so I think that part is ok.

At this point the first thing I'm going to try is unplugging "unnecessary" stuff (CDRW, Zip, DVDROM, etc.) to see where that gets me.

Volcano 7's come disassembled IIRC, and so it's possible to put the clip into the heatsink backwards with nearly as bad an effect as reversing the 'sink itself. With reference to the clip's pressure point, the longer leg should be toward the end of the heatsink which has the step cut into the base (the top end, on your board). This ensures that the clip's pressure point coincides with the physical location of the CPU core, especially important for a smaller core like the Thoroughbred.

Once you're sure that's as it should be, the next thing I would do is unplug all fans that plug into the motherboard. Some boards get :confused: by variable-rpm or low-rpm fans. Unfortunately, some boards also will refuse to power up if they're not seeing a certain level of RPM's on the CPU fan! :p So also try plugging an RPM-sensing 3-pin fan into the CPU_FAN header below the CPU socket, if you haven't. Did I just contradict myself? YES! :confused: It's the slow and/or variable fans that are the troublemakers, so if all you have is your V7 fan, crank it up to max and stick it on there.

You didn't mention removing the video card so I assume it and the motherboard are just as they were when the Duron was in there (and working). But it wouldn't hurt to try taking the board out of the case like RustyNale suggests. Also, push down hard on the AGP card to make sure it's down into both rows of contacts in the AGP slot.

I'm sure you did it already, but you might try clearing the CMOS again (unplugged from wall, pull battery, punch power button, threaten computer with final doom, put battery back). Sorry not to have any better insights... from what Gigabyte has to say, it should work. I do feel strongly about power supply quality and if you have any major-name 300W+ units around, you might want to try them.


 

muttley

Senior member
Jun 2, 2001
760
0
0
Just a few comments from the peanut gallery.

I in the question of the lapped heatsink. A mirrored heatsink isn't what you want for 2 reasons one of which is that the thermal compound needs a place to get into. Second a mirror refelects heat. For more heat ina roast you keep the shiney side facing the roast. (The time you place the shiney side is when you don't want stuff to stick with some of the newest anti-stick foils.)
Lapping actually applies to the CPU to get a faster surface/heat transfer from the cpu.
A reason that you would sand a heatsink is to get it flat cause many are not flat, but concave.
I personally do enough heatsinks that I use a orbital sander. Also I have arthritice in my body.

I test out my parts before hand a couple of days when possible before extreme usage. Sometimes I will find boards or processors or memory that won't overclock.

I would suggest on your board problem that perchance the memory is bad? I had some PC-2700 512meg samsung chips and I put it in a 2600 (333) CPU and motherboard and windows wouldn't load and give page falt errors and other errors. Maybe your having the same problem but different symptoms cause your not loading windows. (I could load DOS and you might try that but windows wouldn't take it in my case.)

Also what about CPU voltage as something to look into. (ballpark suggestion)
or put the duron back in and see if that works.

good luck.
muttley
 

Insidious

Diamond Member
Oct 25, 2001
7,649
0
0
funny LED display on case? Won't boot? Sounds like you may have accidentally
ferked up the display/switch connections. Double check!

Also, no beeps will happen if you have no keyboard plugged in, but that wouldn't explain
the LEDs.
 

ProviaFan

Lifer
Mar 17, 2001
14,993
1
0
Edit: bump for new question. And thanks for the additional suggestions, guys. I'll try them out as soon as possible (probably this afternoon).
 

RustyNale

Platinum Member
Apr 14, 2001
2,220
0
0
Yes, goo gone will work, just clean the hs off with alcohol afterwards--before you apply the thermal paste. You can also use a knife to carefully scrape off the old thermal pad--easy does it so you don't scratch the bottom.
 

mgpaulus

Golden Member
Dec 19, 2000
1,112
0
0
I use Goof Off. In fact, down in my workshop, I have a bottle of Isopropyl 91%, Goof Off, a package
of Cotton Makeup removal squares, a package of cotton swabs, a box of toothpicks and a roll of blue
shop papertowels (The real HEAVY DUTY kind. Great for wiping off that nasty Thermal Goop of choice). All
handy and nice to have right at hand, instead of having to run all over the house looking for them.

 

Slaughter

Senior member
Mar 27, 2002
296
0
76
I use a shop rag and gasoline to wipe off thermal paste. Works good...and the fumes are nice if you're into that kind of thing. :confused:
 

ProviaFan

Lifer
Mar 17, 2001
14,993
1
0
Well, I tried taking out the Athlon CPU, memory, and PCI cards, and blowing the board off well to make sure there was no dust in any of the sockets. I re-seated the CPU, and put the HSF back on it, only after cleaning both with the alcohol and re-applying the Arctic Silver 3. And yes, MechBgon, I have been putting the HSF on correctly - the little "step up" on the one end goes toward the raised little "platform" on the "top" of the socket, and the clip is in correctly. The heatsink is also contacting the processor properly. :)

One theory I had about why it might not be working is that it might have been a problem with a little bit of arctic silver getting on the surface-mounted resistors, but I cleaned those off with the alcohol while I had the processor out, and that didn't seem to help.

Also, I double-checked the switch and LED connections, and all were fine there. The PSU to motherboard connector appears to be fine, the jumper is set correctly (it is only to set the FSB between 100MHz and 133MHz; I have tried both), and I have not changed the number nor rearranged the little metal standoffs for the motherboard.

MechBgon: I see that you're a big fan of brand name top-quality PSUs (and I agree with you, they're great), but I only have what I have, and don't just have many extra "spare" parts lying around. The only other PSU that I have as a spare is a 250watt AT PSU that's in my closet. :eek:

Next, I will try taking out some RAM and PCI cards and unplugging some disk drives to see what that does, and then putting the old processor back in if all else fails. If the old processor works, I guess it will be time to initiate RMA proceedings on the Athlon. If not, I guess I must have FUBARed my motherboard (not sure how that could have happened, because nothing got scratched or cracked, AFAIK).

Edit: Let me clarify something else; the computer appears to come to life when I push the power button (all drives and fans spin up), but the power LED doesn't come on, and nothing ever appears on the screen, so simply changing the OS won't help here.
 

bunker

Lifer
Apr 23, 2001
10,572
0
71
I used mineral spirits on my old processor followed up by alcohol to remove the pad.

I'd be a little leary of using goo gone. I've used that stuff and it's kinda greasy isn't it?
 

ProviaFan

Lifer
Mar 17, 2001
14,993
1
0
Originally posted by: bunker
I used mineral spirits on my old processor followed up by alcohol to remove the pad.

I'd be a little leary of using goo gone. I've used that stuff and it's kinda greasy isn't it?
I used Goo Gone (the orange smelling stuff) to get the old thermal pad off the Cooler Master HSF unit that was cooling my Duron. After that, I wiped the surface well with a cotton swab and alcohol. I will use a lint-free lens cloth with more alcohol again before installing the HSF unit.