OS Question

[Stg-Flame]

Reading through a different topic brings up a question I have been trying to resolve. With my new gaming rig (specs below) that I will be building, I have not been able to decide if I should get Vista or stick with XP. From what I have read on several gaming forums, there are numerous games that have a great deal of trouble running on Vista.

Since I am short on time, I must make this quick and just copy/paste the specs. When I return from my meeting, I shall elaborate on anything, if required.

Hanns G 22" Monitor
Intel C2D e8400 3.0GHz Wolfdale CPU (Planning on OCing to 3.8)
eVGA/XFX GeForce 8800GT 512MB
Corsair 520W PSU
GigaByte P35 Mobo
G Skill 4GB RAM
Samsung 750GB HDD
Antec 900 Case
Tuniq Tower Heatsink
NEC Floppy Drive
Sony NEC Optiarc DVD Drive

So, if anyone sees any type of conflicts that might arise from this setup mixed with Vista, let me know. Also, feel free to post your experiences with gaming on Vista - which games work, which don't, which you have had trouble with, etc.

**Note**
I picked all of these parts out about two months ago when my finances were in better order. Due to some unforeseen events, I was not able to buy my PC.

EDIT: I just thought to ask this. Would I require more cooling than just the stock fans (Antec 900 is a damn good case for gaming) and the Tuniq Heatsink if I overclock my CPU to 3.8 or higher? I have never OC'd anything other than my GPU before and I am unsure if I will need additional cooling. If I will require liquid, I must wait to OC. Let me know what you think.

 

[Blain]

I would stick with XP.

 

[Zap]

Those parts should work fine with Vista. I've seen people use it at the LAN parties I go to. This past weekend one person had some issues, so he had to fiddle with a game for it to work (I think run it in compatibility mode). Generally speaking if the game is recent, should work fine without issues or in compatibility mode.

For overclocking, the Tuniq cooler is fine. Whether you get to 3.8GHz or not is pure luck. There is absolutely ZERO guarantee of any particular overclock. Of course, with your particular choices you are very, very LIKELY to hit that speed, but don't shed any tears (or complain here 😛 ) if you don't actually hit that speed.

I'm not sure there's a 512MB 8800GTX. Do you mean a 512MB 8800GTS, or a 512MB 9800GTX?

If you're having budget problems, you can do three things to trim a bit off the cost of your build without hugely affecting performance. First, get 2GB RAM instead of 4GB, and get the cheapest DDR2-800 you can find that runs at 1.8v. Second, get a cheaper PSU. You can get a Corsair that isn't modular like the 520W for a bit cheaper. Just put some twist ties around the spare cables and they'll be out of your way. Third, get an 8800GT (or 512MB 8800GTS). Very, very close to top end performance for around $160-200.

 

[Tempered81]

stick with xp.

Tried and True. Still faster in crysis as of last week (xp sp3 vs. vista sp1)

All you're going to hear about vista gaming is problems problems problems. This is what i see in other forums as well. Vista should be better off after the next service pack, no telling if it will be significantly faster at that time.

 

[Stg-Flame]

Originally posted by: Zap
Those parts should work fine with Vista. I've seen people use it at the LAN parties I go to. This past weekend one person had some issues, so he had to fiddle with a game for it to work (I think run it in compatibility mode). Generally speaking if the game is recent, should work fine without issues or in compatibility mode.

For overclocking, the Tuniq cooler is fine. Whether you get to 3.8GHz or not is pure luck. There is absolutely ZERO guarantee of any particular overclock. Of course, with your particular choices you are very, very LIKELY to hit that speed, but don't shed any tears (or complain here 😛 ) if you don't actually hit that speed.

I'm not sure there's a 512MB 8800GTX. Do you mean a 512MB 8800GTS, or a 512MB 9800GTX?

If you're having budget problems, you can do three things to trim a bit off the cost of your build without hugely affecting performance. First, get 2GB RAM instead of 4GB, and get the cheapest DDR2-800 you can find that runs at 1.8v. Second, get a cheaper PSU. You can get a Corsair that isn't modular like the 520W for a bit cheaper. Just put some twist ties around the spare cables and they'll be out of your way. Third, get an 8800GT (or 512MB 8800GTS). Very, very close to top end performance for around $160-200.

I meant the 8800GT. No idea why I added an X to the end of that. Maybe I typed the list after the hours of searching through countless different GPUs.

As it stands, I need to go back and recheck the prices. I know when I first compiled the list, the CPU was nearly $400 and the RAM was $160. The RAM is now down to $80 (probably only limited time) and the CPU has dropped in price a considerable amount.

As for the OS, it looks like I am going to stick with XP like I had originally planned. My roommate is fairly technically handicapped when it comes to PC hardware, and he has been adamant about Vista and how much better it is than XP. His argument: "It's new, therefore it must be better for gaming."

Thanks for the information. I shall check the prices and update my list to see how that compares to my bank account.

 

[Stg-Flame]

Updated list:

Total price - $1,232.90

Total price two months ago - $1,636.57

In two months, the price dropped $400.

One last question. Can I use my old XP disks from this computer, or will I have to buy a new XP OS? Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I have only had to buy one OS and that was three years ago.

 

[Jax Omen]

If your old XP is a retail/upgrade copy, yes, you can use the old disc.

If it was an OEM copy, no, you can't.

 

[Jax Omen]

Dupe, sorry.

 

[Stg-Flame]

Originally posted by: Jax Omen
If your old XP is a retail/upgrade copy, yes, you can use the old disc.

If it was an OEM copy, no, you can't.

Well, I lost a lot of things when my house burned down and the package that my disks came in was destroyed. The disks I kept in my CD Case along with all of my other installation disks. I bought the OS off of Newegg, so is there any way to tell if it is OEM by that?

 

[Jax Omen]

There's a fairly good chance you bought an OEM disc, then, but there's an easy check. You have a newegg account that you used to order the stuff, right? Check your order history.

 

[Stg-Flame]

Originally posted by: Jax Omen
There's a fairly good chance you bought an OEM disc, then, but there's an easy check. You have a newegg account that you used to order the stuff, right? Check your order history.

I used my friend's account since we bundled our PCs together to cut down on the S&H cost. He e-mailed me the invoice, but that was three years ago when I cared about Yahoo Mail. I shall try to remember my old password and check my accounts. If all else fails, I will just have him check for me when he gets his PC back up and running (he didn't clean his water cooling and it leaked).

 

[Urtho]

You should be able to use the XP disk even if it's an OEM version. Just call up Microsoft when you have to activate and tell them your motherboard died and had to be replaced. 99% of the time they'll give you a verrry long activation code without any further questions and you're all set.

 

[Stg-Flame]

Originally posted by: Urtho
You should be able to use the XP disk even if it's an OEM version. Just call up Microsoft when you have to activate and tell them your motherboard died and had to be replaced. 99% of the time they'll give you a verrry long activation code without any further questions and you're all set.

I shall try this. However, my mobo died about a month ago to which I had to do a Windows Repair. During the repair, a I was prompted to submit some information to Microsoft. A prompt that I was unable to bypass to continue with the repair and recover the data from my HDD. Would submitting that information disrupt the process of getting a new Activation Code from Microsoft?

 

[Stg-Flame]

Damn! I keep thinking of more and more questions to ask now that I am almost able to build my new rig.

My technically handicapped roommate has been telling me that certain graphical options (namely Anti-Aliasing) are not available for XP users and that they are only available for use on Vista. Since I did not care enough to believe him on any number of the occasions where he parroted that to me, I come to you for an answer to this. He has been listing the games one-by-one and which graphical options will not be available to me if I stick with XP and how much better the games will look on his PC than on mine.

Also, if you have not figured it out by now, he is an ignorant ass. Either way, I wish to find out if there is any truth in his ramblings.

EDIT: Two of the games that he listed are Hellgate London and Crysis. Honestly, I could care less if I played the full game of Crysis. The demo was sufficient for me to see how pretty and repetitious it is. He was also telling me that the newer games that will be released (Unreal 2, STALKER: Clear Skies, Spore, etc.) will only feature AA and FSAA on Vista.

 

[chinaman1472]

I haven't played Crysis on Vista, but other games I've played have had no trouble running on either XP SP2 or Vista SP1. AA should be supported on both, but I believe Direct X 10 is only supported on Vista.

Also, I wouldn't buy a floppy disk drive unless it's absolutely necessary. I'd rather put that $5-10 bucks for gas money in my car.

 

[Blain]

Originally posted by: Urtho
You should be able to use the XP disk even if it's an OEM version. Just call up Microsoft when you have to activate and tell them your motherboard died and had to be replaced. 99% of the time they'll give you a verrry long activation code without any further questions and you're all set.

1. If he doesn't have a COA for OEM or a product code for retail, he won't be able to install the OS.
2. Even if he has an OEM version, he is longer has the hardware that was sold with the OEM purchase.
3. If he uses a code from someone elses PC, he's priating.
4. He should just bite the bullet and simple buy a fresh OS.
5. Insurance should pay for replacement of the OS.

6. AA has been a feature of graphics cards since well before XP or Vista came along.

 

[j0j081]

With a pc like that there really is no reason to stay with XP. The performance increase you get from it while gaming wouldn't even be noticeable. If you are keeping XP because you can't afford Vista that's one thing but if you have the option go with Vista 64 now for sure.

 

[Stg-Flame]

Hmm, it seems that people are fairly split when it comes to XP or Vista for gaming. I had heard that only DX10 was available on Vista, but I was unsure if that was true. If so, I am going with Vista. No sense in buying a DX10 card if I cannot run any games in DX10.

As for the insurance, we didn't have any. It was a 32-year-old single-wide trailer that was delapidated anyways. Nobody would insure us even if we had the money to buy insurance.

Anyways, I wish there was a way to dual-boot XP and Vista on separate HDDs. My roommate is upgrading to Vista as well and said if I stick with XP, I can have his old OS. No idea if that will work, but when he upgrades his PC, that OS will no longer be in use. Regardless, I would love to keep my older games and work for college on XP and have the newer games installed on Vista. Probably not doable and would require a lot of work (so it seems), but if all else fails, I might just get Vista and see how that fares.

 

[Jax Omen]

All the good GPUs are DX10 cards anyway. They're way better than the available DX9 cards, even in DX9 mode.

I'm currently Dual-booting XP and Vista, it's easy to do. Install XP, then install Vista on the other HDD. You're done. Seriously.



There ARE a few games that only allow AA in the options menu if you're in DX10 mode. IIRC it can still be forced in the driver.

 

[Stg-Flame]

Alright, it looks like I am going with Vista Home Premium.

However, I did go speak with a guy at our local computer store (since he can order the parts) and we spoke about my list. Some things I might change, some I might not. He seems to have his own opinions about certain brands that differ from mine.

Anyways, here is what we came up with.

Retail

Hanns G 22" Monitor - $280
Intel C2D e8400 3.0GHz Wolfdale CPU - $230
eVGA GeForce 8800GT 512MB - $289
NSpire 670W PSU - $90
GigaByte P35 Mobo - $120
Crucial 4GB RAM - $75
Samsung 750GB HDD - $145
Antec 900 Case - $138
Golden Orb Heatsink - $40
Sony NEC Optiarc DVD Drive - $40
Vista Home Premium - $140
Logitech MX518 Gaming Mouse - $55

Total - ~$1,560 (with S&H included)

All of his products that he sells (even if he orders them) come with a three year warranty unless the product itself has a better one. For example, eVGA GPUs come with a lifetime warranty as long as you register them online.

From Newegg

Hanns G 22" Monitor - $230
Intel C2D e8400 3.0GHz Wolfdale CPU - $190
eVGA GeForce 8800GT 512MB - $209
NSpire PSU - Not Available
GigaByte P35 Mobo - $100
G Skill 4GB RAM - $102
Samsung 750GB HDD - $120
Antec 900 Case - $140
Golden Orb - Not Available
Sony NEC Optiarc DVD Drive - $18
Vista Home Premium - $222
Logitech MX518 Mouse - $40

Total - $1,404.85 (with S&H included)

Now here is what I am unsure about. The monitor, OS, GPU, DVD Drive and CPU are much cheaper at Newegg compared to retail. For the GPU, eVGA comes with a lifetime warranty anyways, but the OS, CPU, DVD Drive, and monitor do not. As it stands, the OS has the biggest price difference in comparison and with retail, it comes with a three-year warranty.

Now here is my predicament. I currently do not have enough money to buy this rig. I just finished my last finals today and I am going to go find a job ASAP; which won't be hard. The hard part is going to be gathering enough money before Memorial Day. Also, within the two weeks, the truckers could go on strike like they have been threatening to do.

As it stands, there seem to be about forty (exaggeration) different possible scenarios conspiring against me, but I think I should be able to pull it off. I currently have about $400 in the bank and I need over $1,000 in two weeks. This seems doable, but it won't be easy.

New List (mainly for me so I know what I am buying and from where it will be bought)

Newegg

Hanns G 22" Monitor - $230
Intel C2D e8400 3.0GHz Wolfdale CPU - $190
eVGA GeForce 8800GT 512MB - $209
Samsung 750GB HDD - $120
Sony NEC Optiarc DVD Drive - $18
Logitech MX518 Gaming Mouse - $40

Total - $830.91 (with S&H included)

Retail

NSpire 670W PSU - $90
Crucial 4GB RAM - $75
GigaByte P35 Mobo - $120
Antec 900 Case - $138
Golden Orb Heatsink - $40
Vista Home Premium - $140

Total - ~$603 (without S&H)

Grand Total - ~$1,433.91

All-in-all, I think the extra $50 or so is a good bargain considering I will be getting a good warranty on all of the items I selected for retail. So, if someone actually took the time to go over this list/post and has any comments, feel free to post them. I am always looking for more insight upon my build and where it could be improved.

EDIT: I knew I would forget something. The guy at the computer store gave me a lecture on overclocking and how unnecessary it is. Since I have never really overclocked anything in hopes of getting better performance, I am unsure if what he said, made any sense. He was saying that regardless of the speed on the CPU (dual core of 3GHz is 6GHz), overclocking it to 4GHz would be pointless.

So, if someone could be so kind as to list some of the verified benefits of overclocking, it would be greatly appreciated. Note that I have never overclocked a CPU before, only my GPU. All I achieved there was getting my GPU to run at 91°C. I saw no change in performance after I overclocked it.

 

[Urtho]

Originally posted by: Chaoticpenguin666


eVGA GeForce 8800GT 512MB - $209

???

Save yourself $50. Or there's a better card in an ECS 8800GTS here for $10 more.

NSpire 670W PSU - $90

Better choice - $70 AR

GigaByte P35 Mobo - $120

DS3L - $90

Vista Home Premium - $140

Nope - $100

Total savings = $140

EDIT: I knew I would forget something. The guy at the computer store gave me a lecture on overclocking and how unnecessary it is. Since I have never really overclocked anything in hopes of getting better performance, I am unsure if what he said, made any sense. He was saying that regardless of the speed on the CPU (dual core of 3GHz is 6GHz), overclocking it to 4GHz would be pointless.

He's on crack.

Serious crack.

Yes there start to be diminishing returns when it comes to overclocking once you get to the higher levels as other things start to bottleneck you but even minimal amounts of increased CPU speed can lead to tangible benefits in many applications. Run far and fast from that "techie" as he doesn't have a clue.

 

[coreyb]

Use Vista x64 so you can get full use of your ram. I don't know where all these people are who are having problems with this OS. I havn't had ANY problems with it yet and I have over 20 games installed. I also have 3-4 friends that have similar setups with the same experience.

 

[Stg-Flame]

Originally posted by: Urtho

Originally posted by: Chaoticpenguin666


eVGA GeForce 8800GT 512MB - $209

???

Save yourself $50. Or there's a better card in an ECS 8800GTS here for $10 more.

That isn't the card I had in mind from Newegg and I don't want a GTS since I am planning on going SLi in the future. I would much rather stick with dual GTs than dual GTSs since the GTS is fairly expensive.

Originally posted by: Urtho

Originally posted by: Chaoticpenguin666

NSpire 670W PSU - $90

Better choice - $70 AR

I only chose the NSpire because with retail, it comes with a four-year warranty.

Originally posted by: Urtho

Originally posted by: Chaoticpenguin666

GigaByte P35 Mobo - $120

DS3L - $90

That is the mobo I selected. The $120 is retail price. Not Newegg price. Like I said previously, with retail, everything comes with a three-year warranty unless otherwise stated by the manufacturer of the product. I think an extra $20 is worth a three-year warranty.

Originally posted by: Urtho

Originally posted by: Chaoticpenguin666

Vista Home Premium - $140

Nope - $100

For this, I am unsure why you have selected the 64-bit OS when I will not be running any 64-bit applications. As far as I know, I only need a 32-bit.

 

[nerp]

Originally posted by: Chaoticpenguin666
For this, I am unsure why you have selected the 64-bit OS when I will not be running any 64-bit applications. As far as I know, I only need a 32-bit.

If you want to use all 4GB of your memory, you need 64 bit.

 

[j0j081]

The Vista 64 for system builders $100 at newegg is a great deal but I would pay the $10 extra for the one with SP1 already integrated.